Big Mac is essentially in Wade Phillips’ shoes

[Stash]

So the team that played in 2011 was one of the best in the League? Really?

Where was that said? Are you grasping at a Strawman argument too?

 

[Stash]

He took over a team that was 1-7, that's the reality. Why not say, he took over a team that won the sb 15 years earlier.. means about as much as 10 months ago statement.

The record wasn’t indicative of the talent. That’s exactly why Wade was fired.

Garrett took over a team that had 9 Pro Bowlers the year before.

 

[nightrain]

Listening to our 78 year old owner GM cry and drop F bombs the other day at his “State of the Cowboys” presser, I was struck by three things: 1. Jerry is old and is running out of time to play fantasy football GM and he knows it. 2. He isn’t really willing to “do anything to win another SB” or he would have already done it. 3. True or not- JJ believes he has enough talent to win the big one now.

Which leads me to this simple point- Mike McCarthy is not on a Jason Garrett-like long leash that gives him a decade to win something. In fact, IMO Big Mac is in a position very similar to the one Wade Phillips was in over a decade ago- Win now or else.

Here are some reasons I believe this:

• Jerry hired Big Mac as a “win now” coach. Not a developmental project.
• JJ prefers having a coach he can take some credit for developing into a winner- like Garrett was. (His current pet project and HC in waiting may be Kellen Moore)
• Big Mac fits a very narrow expectation Jerry has for his HCs-
  • They must be able to tolerate his intrusions. (Most HCs wouldn’t)
  • They must NOT be seen as stronger or more in control than him.
• If this team doesn’t at least win a couple of playoff games, I think Big Mac is in danger of a firing.

I hope Mike McCarthy is successful because I want the Cowboys to finally crawl from their qtr century of playoff irrelevance. He better win because I think he’s on the shortest of HC leashes. Another year of not making the playoffs or even a first round exit is probably an exit sign for the Mike McCarthy era.

I hope you're right, Hazey. I give McCarthy a do over for 2020, but cut him no slack no matter what happens this year. They do have a good core of talent, so no excuses.

For better or worse, Jerry is the one constant we can always account for in Dallas. ...usually the latter.

 

[pancakeman]

I can see your points, but I do not agree on your conclusion. My reasoning is based on Jerry's own track record. He does NOT fire coaches and pay them for years afterwards not to coach. Mike McCarthy managed to get himself a 5-year deal and he's now only in year two. If Jerry were to fire him, he'd be forced to pay him for the next three years. Even worse, he would be admitting to another huge mistake in coaching evaluation, to go with his last 10-year flop. I can't see his ego allowing him to do that. Worst case scenario, I see Big Mike getting at least three years in Dallas, at a minimum.

I think that's right, though missing the playoffs in this crappy division might heat up the seat pretty good.

 

[Stash]

I think that's right, though missing the playoffs in this crappy division might heat up the seat pretty good.

I agree.

I think that if he misses the playoffs this year (barring rampant injuries), he’s coaching for his job in 2022.

But I can’t see Jerry Jones paying a coach not to work for three years.

 

[fivetwos]

He took over a team that was 1-7, that's the reality. Why not say, he took over a team that won the sb 15 years earlier.. means about as much as 10 months ago statement.

Ok. Nevermind.

He was an excellent coach and leader.

Did a lot with an awful roster.

Shame they could never find a QB for him either.

 

[75boyz]

I hope you're right, Hazey. I give McCarthy a do over for 2020, but cut him no slack no matter what happens this year. They do have a good core of talent, so no excuses.

For better or worse, Jerry is the one constant we can always account for in Dallas. ...usually the latter.

I especially love the no excuses part.

Hopefully that old Excuse O' Meter wont hafta be revved up and at the ready 24/7 this year during the season but I have my doubts, lol.

jmo

 

[Cowboy4ever]

The actual team that Garrett inherited in 2010 was 11-5 the year before and had 9 Pro Bowlers.



What you’re trying is the opposite of “objective”.

No sale.

The year before has ZERO bearing. The team that Garrett inherited was 1-7. You can argue that all you want and bring up teams past all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the team in 2010 started off 1-7 and Wade was fired. Those are called facts and they can't be disputed.

2011 Roster
QB Tony Romo
RB Felix Jones (D. Murray was a rookie)
WR - Miles Austin - often injured - only 43 receptions
WR - Dez Bryant
TE - Jason Witten
LT - Doug Free
LG - Montrae Holland
C - Phil Costa
RG - Kyle Kosier
RT - Tyron Smith (Rookie)

DE - Kenyon Coleman
NT - Jay Ratliff
DE - Jason Hatcher
OLB (DE) Anthony Spencer
OLB (DE) DeMarcus Ware
LB - Bradie James
LB - Sean Lee
CB Terrance Newman (33 years old)
CB - Mike Jenkins
S- Abram Elam
S - Gerald Sensabaugh

You're trying to convince someone that the roster above was as good as the one we had last year to start the year? Ok but I think your Garrett hate is really clouding your ability to be rationale. Again other than QB, TE,, Ware and Lee, the rest of the roster was at best average and mostly below average. Maybe that is how you saw our team heading into last year.. I didn't. Again, I did not say Garrett was a great coach or anything other than the team Big Mike took over last year was in better shape, both in talent and in cap space, than the one that Garrett took over in 2011, you can talk about 2009 all you want, makes no difference, that team was gone.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Ok. Nevermind.

He was an excellent coach and leader.

Did a lot with an awful roster.

Shame they could never find a QB for him either.

Didn't say any of that. Just that the roster in 2011 was worse than the one in 2020, I didn't even think that was debatable but I guess the hate for Garrett is making it impossible to think for some people.

 

[noshame]

I think he let Nolan hang around a bit too long for Jerry's taste.
I think there were times last year he looked at his special teams coach to help make decisions on the sidelines. Both signs of a weak coach

 

[Motorola]

I have believed Moore was the next coach in training since Moore's promotion to OC, Jerry's Sean McVay comparison remarks and insistence that Moore's OC role be autonomous. Along with this is my opinion that whomever was hired as HC comes "with the understanding" that it's Kellen's offense.
How it all will play out in Kellen's eventual promotion to HC is still evolving.

jmo

Following the blueprint from 14 years ago.
When Parcells stepped away in January 2007, Jones hired Jason Garrett as OC before selecting Wade as HC. Garrett was the de facto "Head Coach in waiting".
Since Wade took over a playoff team on the rise, his tenure at the beginning was very promising. But the two postseason appearances ended in huge dissapointment (Giants) and huge embarrasment (Vikings). Then the 2010 crash & burn convinced Jones to put Phillips out on the street, and made HCIW Garrett the HC.

 

[Big_D]

Jerry’s ridiculous win now mantra is just as hilarious as ever considering where this defense is. The coach should get a legitimate window to develop what’s truly been a crap unit. A crap couple units including special teams. Win now hurts more than it helps. This is where we blame the coach and absolve the owner for the umpteenth time. lol

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Where was that said? Are you grasping at a Strawman argument too?

"Nobody outside of George Seifert had the table set for them better than Jason Garrett did." That's what you said. Seifert took over a SB winning team and went on to win the SB his first year if I remember correctly. So according to you, Garrett had it better than say Tomlin, who took over a SB winning team for example. And since Tomlin took over a SB winning team and Garrett had it better than that, that would make the team (that was 1-7 when Garrett became the HC) that Garrett took over one of the better teams in the league..

Your statement was silly.

 

[75boyz]

The year before has ZERO bearing. The team that Garrett inherited was 1-7. You can argue that all you want and bring up teams past all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the team in 2010 started off 1-7 and Wade was fired. Those are called facts and they can't be disputed.

2011 Roster
QB Tony Romo
RB Felix Jones (D. Murray was a rookie)
WR - Miles Austin - often injured - only 43 receptions
WR - Dez Bryant
TE - Jason Witten
LT - Doug Free
LG - Montrae Holland
C - Phil Costa
RG - Kyle Kosier
RT - Tyron Smith (Rookie)

DE - Kenyon Coleman
NT - Jay Ratliff
DE - Jason Hatcher
OLB (DE) Anthony Spencer
OLB (DE) DeMarcus Ware
LB - Bradie James
LB - Sean Lee
CB Terrance Newman (33 years old)
CB - Mike Jenkins
S- Abram Elam
S - Gerald Sensabaugh

You're trying to convince someone that the roster above was as good as the one we had last year to start the year? Ok but I think your Garrett hate is really clouding your ability to be rationale. Again other than QB, TE,, Ware and Lee, the rest of the roster was at best average and mostly below average. Maybe that is how you saw our team heading into last year.. I didn't. Again, I did not say Garrett was a great coach or anything other than the team Big Mike took over last year was in better shape, both in talent and in cap space, than the one that Garrett took over in 2011, you can talk about 2009 all you want, makes no difference, that team was gone.

Let me preface this by saying I do not like Garrett or McCarthy. Either of them. Period.

But...
A young Romo, Dez and Witten...

And regardless of scheme or positional debate Ware, Spencer, Hatcher and Ratliff as a d line..

I'll respect and mostly agree with your opinion on all the rest. Not so much on these other 7 out of 22 starters.

A younger but still often injured Lee can still get honorable mention maybe, lol. I can't really mention Tyron yet like you said, because of his rookie status.

As for those I did mention I would take them over most any name you can slip into their positions for the last decade but that's just another's outside opinion.

Like I said I do not like either coach so no dog in the race. My opinion is purely production/performance as to the aforementioned players while as members of the Cowboys in comparing them to all others holding their same positions this last decade.

Nothing personal, opinion only.

 

[Aven8]

I don’t know how Mike could be on the hot seat with all the crap he had on Defense last year. That doesn’t even include the injuries to the offense. The D doesn’t currently have one blue chip player on it. Parsons looks like he will be, but time will tell. Dlaw is paid like one but is just a really good player.

 

[CouchCoach]

Booger said from the outset, he wanted a veteran NFL HC. I wonder how much selling McC did in that 12 hour interview and how much self selling Booger did that this was his guy?

There is one difference with the Phillips situation, McC has two, count them two, heir apparent's waiting to move into his seat. The question is will Porky set the wheels in motion as he did with Phillips to get his buddy Garrett into that seat?

 

[fivetwos]

Didn't say any of that. Just that the roster in 2011 was worse than the one in 2020, I didn't even think that was debatable but I guess the hate for Garrett is making it impossible to think for some people.

Listen, I dont blame Garrett for anything. He was excellent at saying the right things to the right guy.

He made a FORTUNE by doing exactly that.

Jerry always admired how "smart" he was. All you need to do is utter some football talk that Jerry doesn't understand in order to do that.

Looks like our current coach did the same.

Just don't tell me that Garrett and his stubborn attempt to recreate the 1990s is something to boast over.

I've only been watching pro sports for 45 years, but I've literally never seen staffs do less with more than his.

The only reason I'm not at all worried about an increasingly better Giants roster is him.

I'd almost bet the deed to my house that he is fired after this season when the people around him refuse to be as unwilling to admit a mistake as Jerry Jones.

 

[CouchCoach]

I don’t know how Mike could be on the hot seat with all the crap he had on Defense last year. That doesn’t even include the injuries to the offense. The D doesn’t currently have one blue chip player on it. Parsons looks like he will be, but time will tell. Dlaw is paid like one but is just a really good player.

He brought in Mike Nolan, with a crummy resume, and allowed a new defense to be installed under the worst possible circumstances.

Do you think other GM's would have allowed that to happen? How blatantly stupid could they be? No wonder they've got the MLB asking them to dumb it down early in the season.

The GM and HC should have been fired.

 

[75boyz]

Following the blueprint from 14 years ago.
When Parcells stepped away in January 2007, Jones hired Jason Garrett as OC before selecting Wade as HC. Garrett was the de facto "Head Coach in waiting".
Since Wade took over a playoff team on the rise, his tenure at the beginning was very promising. But the two postseason appearances ended in huge dissapointment (Giants) and huge embarrasment (Vikings). Then the 2010 crash & burn convinced Jones to put Phillips out on the street, and made HCIW Garrett the HC.

Yep, I have believed it since day one of Moore's OC hiring. The Garrett Redemption Plan masterminded by Jerry Jones.

 

[75boyz]

Listen, I dont blame Garrett for anything. He was excellent at saying the right things to the right guy.

He made a FORTUNE by doing exactly that.

Jerry always admired how "smart" he was. All you need to do is utter some football talk that Jerry doesn't understand in order to do that.

Looks like our current coach did the same.

Just don't tell me that Garrett and his stubborn attempt to recreate the 1990s is something to boast over.

I've only been watching pro sports for 45 years, but I've literally never seen staffs do less with more than his.

The only reason I'm not at all worried about an increasingly better Giants roster is him.

I'd almost bet the deed to my house that he is fired after this season when the people around him refuse to be as unwilling to admit a mistake as Jerry Jones.

I share your same opinion that IF Judge were to fire Garrett at mid season or before, with Kitchens waiting in the wings as OC, the Giants could prove to be a very formidable opponent.