Bill Parcells is expected to try to trade the Dolphins' No. 1 pick.

[LeonDixson]

I thought the GM had the final say on players to draft. What if the new GM and the new coach want to draft McFadden? Is Parcells going to drop the facade that he is creating to raid other teams' front offices?

 

[AbeBeta]

I thought the GM had the final say on players to draft. What if the new GM and the new coach want to draft McFadden? Is Parcells going to drop the facade that he is creating to raid other teams' front offices?

People focus on the "final say" rule but everyone knows that is BS. There are very few GMs in the league who have the ultimate final, no questions asked, no discussion with someone above them, say unless they happen to own the team. The league isn't going to stand in the way of Bill getting Ireland. We all need to stop clinging to the semantics of the NFL hiring rules. If Bill wants Ireland and Ireland is going to get a better deal and more responsibility to go to Miami then he should get to go.

Let me ask this -- if any of you had an opportunity for a better job, better pay, and a real advancement for your career would you be happy if your current employer wouldn't let you go?

 

[theogt]

People focus on the "final say" rule but everyone knows that is BS. There are very few GMs in the league who have the ultimate final, no questions asked, no discussion with someone above them, say unless they happen to own the team. The league isn't going to stand in the way of Bill getting Ireland. We all need to stop clinging to the semantics of the NFL hiring rules. If Bill wants Ireland and Ireland is going to get a better deal and more responsibility to go to Miami then he should get to go.

Let me ask this -- if any of you had an opportunity for a better job, better pay, and a real advancement for your career would you be happy if your current employer wouldn't let you go?

People should focus on the "final say" rule because it's enforceable. And not many people here likely think working under Parcells as a facade GM in Miami would be an advancement of your career.

 

[AbeBeta]

People should focus on the "final say" rule because it's enforceable. And not many people here likely think working under Parcells as a facade GM in Miami would be an advancement of your career.

How exactly is it enforceable? Does the NFL office sit with these guys in the war room and monitor their discussions?

 

[theogt]

How exactly is it enforceable? Does the NFL office sit with these guys in the war room and monitor their discussions?

One side would invoke the rule. The league would make a ruling. The losing side couple appeal. Etc.

Pretty simple. Parcells contract clearly gives him final say power. Jerry could invoke the rule.

Edit: I think what you're confusing is actual use of a the power with the power itself.

 

[AbeBeta]

One side would invoke the rule. The league would make a ruling. The losing side couple appeal. Etc.

Pretty simple. Parcells contract clearly gives him final say power. Jerry could invoke the rule.

Edit: I think what you're confusing is actual use of a the power with the power itself.

Parcells' contract was designed to make it clear that he doesn't have final say power -- that's kinda the whole point of the structure of his deal.

 

[theogt]

Parcells' contract was designed to make it clear that he doesn't have final say power -- that's kinda the whole point of the structure of his deal.

No, it wasn't. That's just spin that isn't even supported by the actual language of the contract. It explicitly gives him final say power.

 

[AbeBeta]

No, it wasn't. That's just spin that isn't even supported by the actual language of the contract. It explicitly gives him final say power.

you got some text on that?

 

[theogt]

you got some text on that?

It's been posted before. Parcells read off the actual language to a columnist.

Edit: Here's a previous post on the subject:

In the contract, Parcells is (1) an employee of the franchise, and (2) is "responsible for overseeing football operations." The argument would boil down to what "responsible for overseeing football operations" means.

The next clause in the contract states that he is a designee of the organization in order to negotiate contracts with the GM and HC. This clause would almost certainly be read as illustrative of his power to oversee, not restrictive of it. That's a simple contract interpretation rule. When a broad statement is followed by a specific statement, the specific statement is illustrative rather than restrictive.

The term "oversee" is defined as "to watch over and direct; supervise" or to "to subject to scrutiny; examine or inspect." If that term is to have any meaning in the contract (and every word in a contract must be interpreted as to give it meaning), then Parcells must be construed as having the power to supervise the GM. That's "final say" power, however you slice it.

The contract is not structured as to give the GM final say power. This is a fiction that is thrown out by Parcells. The language of the contract does not provide for it. The only way that Ireland is going to Miami is (1) he wants to go, and (2) Jerry lets him go.

 

[AbeBeta]

It's been posted before. Parcells read off the actual language to a columnist.

Edit: Here's a previous post on the subject:

I guess you are right in this case. However, this quote just was attributed to Jerry:

"In personnel, no one can leave until after the draft," Jones said. "The only thing I'm concerned about in personnel is that we get the benefit of all the work that's been done to run our draft. As far as sitting there with personnel, someone being given an opportunity to be a general manager or the opportunity to be over there, I'll help him.

"If Jeff got a chance to advance himself, then I'm all for it"

So I guess the point is moot.

Losing Ireland may suck but this really is how a good owner acts. He's open to letting a guy advance to a position he would never get in Dallas.

 

[03EBZ06]

Why is BP hired in first place? To make the miserable Miami team better, correct? So, how is he able to turn that team around with his philosophy without him making certain decisions? If his formula for success isn't being employed due to devoid of "final say", why was he hired then?

 

[theogt]

I guess you are right in this case. However, this quote just was attributed to Jerry:

"In personnel, no one can leave until after the draft," Jones said. "The only thing I'm concerned about in personnel is that we get the benefit of all the work that's been done to run our draft. As far as sitting there with personnel, someone being given an opportunity to be a general manager or the opportunity to be over there, I'll help him.

"If Jeff got a chance to advance himself, then I'm all for it"

So I guess the point is moot.

Losing Ireland may suck but this really is how a good owner acts. He's open to letting a guy advance to a position he would never get in Dallas.

I think it's all moot because I doubt that Ireland would leave to go to Miami on his own free will anyway.

 

[AbeBeta]

I think it's all moot because I doubt that Ireland would leave to go to Miami on his own free will anyway.

really? for a GM position? You don't think?

Does he have no ambition?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

really? for a GM position? You don't think?

Does he have no ambition?

Ugh... The point is, would he *really* be the GM? Forget the title. Would he want Parcells telling him who to take? Say he thinks some LB is a great player, but he knows the player doesn't fit the prototype size requirements his boss wants. So he doesn't take the player. Is he really making his own decisions in that case?

And one more thing... Even if Ireland were truly making independent decisions on personnel, would he ever get credit for it? Does anyone give him credit here? No, it's all about "Bill Parcells' drafts" the last four years. No one, at least nationally, says that Jeff Ireland made some great draft choices in Ratliff and Crayton. They say that Parcells did.

If I were an employee in that situation, I wouldn't like it. Talk about ambition... You'd at least like to get credit for the work you do.

 

[theogt]

really? for a GM position? You don't think?

Does he have no ambition?

I think it's a demotion, really. I think he'd have less say there than he does here. I think in terms of personnel, here he has near absolute control. Plus, he's from Texas. His family is here. He went to college here. You're not from Texas, so I wouldn't expect you to understand that. But Texas people tend to stay in Texas.

The only "upside" is that he'd be responsible for negotiating contracts with players. That may be something he's into, but he's never had any sort of training in that regard, so I couldn't know. Personally, that would be the worst part of the job to me, which is why I use quotes for "upside."

 

[AbeBeta]

Ugh... The point is, would he *really* be the GM? Forget the title. Would he want Parcells telling him who to take? Say he thinks some LB is a great player, but he knows the player doesn't fit the prototype size requirements his boss wants. So he doesn't take the player. Is he really making his own decisions in that case?

And one more thing... Even if Ireland were truly making independent decisions on personnel, would he ever get credit for it? Does anyone give him credit here? No, it's all about "Bill Parcells' drafts" the last four years. No one, at least nationally, says that Jeff Ireland made some great draft choices in Ratliff and Crayton. They say that Parcells did.

If I were an employee in that situation, I wouldn't like it. Talk about ambition... You'd at least like to get credit for the work you do.

i think you seriously underestimate the "credit" that Ireland gets -- for a scouting director to be widely discussed for a GM position as the first mention in every sports media outlet is pretty damn good recognition.

BTW -- Ireland isn't even listed as an "executive" on the Cowboys web page. He's getting no recognition from the team at this point, so him worrying about not getting that in Miami when he'd have a more prominent position seems unreasonable.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Who gets credit for spotting Barber?

Imagine if we had taken Spears at 11 like BP wanted to, where we would be defensively today.

 

[AbeBeta]

I think it's a demotion, really. I think he'd have less say there than he does here. I think in terms of personnel, here he has near absolute control. Plus, he's from Texas. His family is here. He went to college here. You're not from Texas, so I wouldn't expect you to understand that. But Texas people tend to stay in Texas.

The only "upside" is that he'd be responsible for negotiating contracts with players. That may be something he's into, but he's never had any sort of training in that regard, so I couldn't know. Personally, that would be the worst part of the job to me, which is why I use quotes for "upside."

Demotion? I don't think so at all.

Maybe I don't understand the "texas" thing -- but frankly, that seems like a lame reason for staying. Professionals want to move up, not stay at home and work in a position below their qualifications. I just don't see a guy getting into this business without having some desire to be in a position with more money and responsibility.

 

[theogt]

Demotion? I don't think so at all.

Maybe I don't understand the "texas" thing -- but frankly, that seems like a lame reason for staying. Professionals want to move up, not stay at home and work in a position below their qualifications. I just don't see a guy getting into this business without having some desire to be in a position with more money and responsibility.

It's not a lame reason. And it is certainly a factor in determining where you work. It can be a large factor. Regardless, it certainly deserves mention.

 

[AbeBeta]

It's not a lame reason. And it is certainly a factor in determining where you work. It can be a large factor. Regardless, it certainly deserves mention.

And I say it is lame. Professionals go where jobs are, that is what makes them professionals.