Bruce Carter and Marinelli

[Doomsday101]

I believe Briggs and Urlacher and Tillman, were there before him, I do not think he made them better. Now, if your claim is someone like Nick Roach became a better players under him, I will listen to the argument. But, to say the above, and Peppers became better under Marinelli is crazy.

I think he is a good line coach, who was put as DC under a DC coach, who put the Defense in Chicago together. And the proof I have is, look at the Offensive drafting under Smith, it is horrendous.

They seem to disagree fact is as DC he was responsible for the entire unit and his record as a coach and a DC goes back to 1973 he has worked with a lot of players and he has gotten the results that is why he is looked at as one of the tops in coaching.

 

[CashMan]

They seem to disagree fact is as DC he was responsible for the entire unit and his record as a coach and a DC goes back to 1973 he has worked with a lot of players and he has gotten the results that is why he is looked at as one of the tops in coaching.

So, what happened last year?

Let me guess...Injuries or he wasn't DC, then other than Hatcher, why didn't his DL improve?

 

[jobberone]

I see carter finding the bench. carter is more suited for the 3-4 defense in the middle. just my opinion I hope I am wrong if not we draft a linebacker next year that fits this defense better.

A like for an honest and thoughtful post. I hope you're wrong as well. I see him as a Will because of his speed but if he can't cover he can't. Maybe he is better suited as the Sam. If he can't cover he can't play Mike either BTW. He might be a two down LBer. Hope not.

 

[Doomsday101]

So, what happened last year?

Let me guess...Injuries or he wasn't DC, then other than Hatcher, why didn't his DL improve?

Yeah injury played a very big part you don't lose that manyy DL players, starting LB and not feel it. This crap about injury are not an excuse is stupid of course losing starting players through out the defense is going to have a massive effect when people claim that it should not matter do not have a fricken clue it make a very big differance. You don't easily replace starters. Marinelli took over a 17th ranked defense by the time he left they were the 5th ranked defense in the NFL and Yes Briggs said Marinelli played a big part in how that defense attacked and forced turnovers not sitting back waiting for turnovers to happen but players getting after the ball carrier and ripping balls away from them.

“I’m learning that we all fit pretty well in [Marinelli’s] scheme,” Briggs said Tuesday to "The Afternoon Saloon” on ESPN 1000. “He wants aggression. We’re gonna be a pretty violent bunch. One of the things he kind of mentioned, he said, ‘Hey, this isn’t a 3-4 defense. We’re not gonna beat people [by] trying to disguise the things we do. We line up with our best 11 and basically kick their butts.’ I love that attitude, and I think that’s what we’ve got to do.”

 

[jobberone]

Carter is on a long list of guys who get anointed in Dallas before they have proven anything!!!

I don't remember him being anointed anything. I remember people being excited about his size, athleticism, and speed. It just hasn't translated to the field; at least not last year. I'll remain excited about a player like that until he's failed for certain.

 

[CashMan]

Yeah injury played a very big part you don't lose that manyy DL players, starting LB and not feel it. This crap about injury are not an excuse is stupid of course losing starting players through out the defense is going to have a massive effect when people claim that it should not matter do not have a fricken clue it make a very big differance. You don't easily replace starters. Marinelli took over a 17th ranked defense by the time he left they were the 5th ranked defense in the NFL and Yes Briggs said Marinelli played a big part in how that defense attacked and forced turnovers not sitting back waiting for turnovers to happen but players getting after the ball carrier and ripping balls away from them.

“I’m learning that we all fit pretty well in [Marinelli’s] scheme,” Briggs said Tuesday to "The Afternoon Saloon” on ESPN 1000. “He wants aggression. We’re gonna be a pretty violent bunch. One of the things he kind of mentioned, he said, ‘Hey, this isn’t a 3-4 defense. We’re not gonna beat people [by] trying to disguise the things we do. We line up with our best 11 and basically kick their butts.’ I love that attitude, and I think that’s what we’ve got to do.”

I wonder, what the Ravens would say about injuries that SB year.

I am questioning Rod making players other than DL better. Briggs was already what he was, before Rod, so name a player, that Rod made better other than a DL.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't remember him being anointed anything. I remember people being excited about his size, athleticism, and speed. It just hasn't translated to the field; at least not last year. I'll remain excited about a player like that until he's failed for certain.

No, he wasn't "anointed" anything.

He played well before being injured in '12 and was expected to be a productive member of the LB corps in '13... Nothing more, nothing less.

As usual an agenda mixed with hyperbole makes for a bad post.

 

[Doomsday101]

I wonder, what the Ravens would say about injuries that SB year.

I am questioning Rod making players other than DL better. Briggs was already what he was, before Rod, so name a player, that Rod made better other than a DL.

Players do not stop learning. But chances are your right He would not know anything about LB, CB or safety he just knows DL. Putting an entire defensive program in place heck anyone could do it. LOL

As for Ravens team guys made it back into the lineup Suggs had missed games early on but came back as did Ray Lewis getting healthy at the right time means a lot. Dallas players did not come back

 

[CyberB0b]

That's a valid point Bob.

But keep in mind that over 2,000 snaps went to folks like:

Hayden
Wilber
Wynn
Nevis
Brown
Irvin

And those guys contributed?




5 sacks.

Total.

Wilber has already been moved to OLB from DE and I'm betting Hayden doesn't make the final roster.

Needless to say 5 sacks for 2,174 snaps... well if you're looking for an area that can make up for the loss of the production of Hatcher and Ware... this is it.

That's all well and good, but you are telling me Terrell McClain is the answer here? I mean Hayden is the only one in that group who took significant snaps (776) out of that group. We aren't going to get a lot of sacks out of that position.

 

[Cowboy06]

Not sure if this was posted, but I love me some Marinelli! Check out this quote from a BTB article on vets and, specifically, Bruce Carter:

And Rod Marinelli is making no bones about the fact he needs to get his act together.
"I don’t do confidence stuff," said Marinelli, who was promoted to defensive coordinator this offseason. "Get down and play. Get down and play. Here’s your assignment key. We want you to play fast and we want you to take the ball away."

"Go play," Marinelli said. "It’s a man’s game, man. Play it the right way. That’s what I want. We’re going to coach it. We’ll coach you hard. Be where you’re supposed to be. This is what we expect. And then go."

That's some tough love and hard coaching. My bet? Carter mans up and finds his swagger...

It's truly said he wasn't successful as a head coach. I think if more people thought like this we would truly win more often than lose. If Carter doesn't get it this year, let him go and wish him well.

 

[CashMan]

Players do not stop learning. But chances are your right He would not know anything about LB, CB or safety he just knows DL. Putting an entire defensive program in place heck anyone could do it. LOL

As for Ravens team guys made it back into the lineup Suggs had missed games early on but came back as did Ray Lewis getting healthy at the right time means a lot. Dallas players did not come back

Keep holding onto the injuries, I am sure if Spencer didn't get hurt, SB here Dallas comes.

By your logic, Demarcus Ware, was a product of Parcells and Wade, not his own skill.

 

[Doomsday101]

Keep holding onto the injuries, I am sure if Spencer didn't get hurt, SB here Dallas comes.

By your logic, Demarcus Ware, was a product of Parcells and Wade, not his own skill.

I never have said anything about SB. As for Ware yes he had skills coming out of college does that mean Ware learned nothing from Zimmer, BP and Wade. I guess by your logic players do not need coaches since they already have talent coming out of college. Players continue to learn and when systems change they have to learn and adapt to what the coaches are wanting from them and it is the coaches job to get these guys to understand and to develope within that system.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That's all well and good, but you are telling me Terrell McClain is the answer here? I mean Hayden is the only one in that group who took significant snaps (776) out of that group. We aren't going to get a lot of sacks out of that position.

Nope that's not what I'm inferring.

And yes Hayden took significant snaps BUT you're still looking at over 1,300 snaps there were given to others who were almost equally inept at creating a pass rush.

Between Okoye, McClain, Bishop (maybe), Bass (maybe), Coleman (maybe) and Crawford that the 5 sack threshold for over 2,000 snaps isn't hard to top.

 

[CyberB0b]

Nope that's not what I'm inferring.

And yes Hayden took significant snaps BUT you're still looking at over 1,300 snaps there were given to others who were almost equally inept at creating a pass rush.

Between Okoye, McClain, Bishop (maybe), Bass (maybe), Coleman (maybe) and Crawford that the 5 sack threshold for over 2,000 snaps isn't hard to top.

You would hope to get more production out of those guys. I think a wide open competition going into camp will bring out some gems, we just have to wait and see.

 

[CashMan]

I never have said anything about SB. As for Ware yes he had skills coming out of college does that mean Ware learned nothing from Zimmer, BP and Wade. I guess by your logic players do not need coaches since they already have talent coming out of college. Players continue to learn and when systems change they have to learn and adapt to what the coaches are wanting from them and it is the coaches job to get these guys to understand and to develope within that system.

I dont think, great players need much coaching, every player learns. What Rod does, is take avg players and squeezes everything he can, out of them. Briggs was already very good, before Rod. Ron Rivera played a more aggressive scheme, than the cover-2, then a couple bums were the DC, then Rod took over.

I do not think he is this messiah, everyone thinks he is. Just like I made the Hudson Houck comparison.

 

[Doomsday101]

I dont think, great players need much coaching, every players learns. What Rod does, is take avg players and squeezes everything he can, out of them. Briggs was already very good, before Rod. Ron Rivera played a more aggressive scheme, than the cover-2, then a couple bums were the DC, then Rod took over.

I do not think he is this messiah, everyone thinks he is. Just like I made the Hudson Houck comparison.

I don't think he is a messiah I know he is a very good coach who is highly respected around the league by people who actually understand the game of football.

 

[CashMan]

I don't think he is a messiah I know he is a very good coach who is highly respected around the league by people who actually understand the game of football.

Right, so are a lot of other coaches. He has 3yrs of DC experience, to say he he is going to make Bruce Carter better, without providing an example, I can not buy.

But, right now, everything is on your side. When you are the worst at something, the only place to go is up. So, if Carter plays in all 16 games, you win the argument, if he plays in the same amount, and gets 1 more tackle you win. So it really isn't a fair argument. Now, if Dallas had the #7 D and Rod made it #1, then I would say you are 100% right. Plus, it is going to take 2-3yrs of drafting for the cover-2 to get the right players, and after botching the defensive side of the draft, 2yrs in a row, it might take longer.

We do know, Carter is not the Derrick Brooks/Lance Briggs of our Cover-2. In Lovie's system, you didn't need a good Safety, in Monte's you did, so I am just wondering which version will be in Dallas.

 

[Idgit]

Nope that's not what I'm inferring.

And yes Hayden took significant snaps BUT you're still looking at over 1,300 snaps there were given to others who were almost equally inept at creating a pass rush.

Between Okoye, McClain, Bishop (maybe), Bass (maybe), Coleman (maybe) and Crawford that the 5 sack threshold for over 2,000 snaps isn't hard to top.

Yeah, this is pretty obviously where the improvement has to come from defensively. We'll be better, across the board, with the rotation this year, at least.

If Lee can stay in the lineup, that's huge. Carter legitimately beating out Durant (speaking of whom, if you haven't read this yet, it's a great read) would be another big boom. And some development at S or contributions from Matt Johnson. If we're going to improve, this is where it's going to have to come from this season. My guess is that some improvement is almost a given, but a lot of improvement is too much to expect.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

We half needed this for . . . ever since Jimma left for the seafaring and commentary life.

We half gotten to the point where coaches and GMs call the Carters of the world "intelligent," with a "good work ethic," "blue collar," "a fast learner" -- anything to hid the facks that many clowns are cruising and their coaches are coddling them.

When Marinelli no longer want to coaches he should be the chief motivator of dis team.
Call it like it is. The Romos and Wittens of this world pretty much earn their monies and praise but the Carters of the world needs a wake up call to smell the burning coffee.

I salute you, Marinelli. Keep up the good work and pls yell at the underachievers and those who achieve, tell them they are earning their paychecks but don't go overboard in praise.

Landry did not go overboard and Jimma did not go overboard. They called them as they saw them and usually got results.

 

[Doomsday101]

Right, so are a lot of other coaches. He has 3yrs of DC experience, to say he he is going to make Bruce Carter better, without providing an example, I can not buy.

But, right now, everything is on your side. When you are the worst at something, the only place to go is up. So, if Carter plays in all 16 games, you win the argument, if he plays in the same amount, and gets 1 more tackle you win. So it really isn't a fair argument. Now, if Dallas had the #7 D and Rod made it #1, then I would say you are 100% right. Plus, it is going to take 2-3yrs of drafting for the cover-2 to get the right players, and after botching the defensive side of the draft, 2yrs in a row, it might take longer.

We do know, Carter is not the Derrick Brooks/Lance Briggs of our Cover-2. In Lovie's system, you didn't need a good Safety, in Monte's you did, so I am just wondering which version will be in Dallas.

I don't compare players to others, no he is not Brooks or Briggs. Marinelli job will be to take the skills Carter does have and impliment them within his defense. I don't think it is a sure thing, I do believe Carter has the skills sets to be a good player and it will be up to Marinelli and his assistant coaches to get the most out of him. I think they can because I think Carter has the talent