News: BTB: Chaos Reduced Theory: Why The Cowboys' 2016 Offseason Should Be Much Smoother Than In 2015

NewsBot

New Member
Messages
111,281
Reaction score
2,947
usa-today-9011624.0.jpg

Assuming that the team is keeping the coaching staff largely intact, things should be much less stressful for Dallas this year.

The 2015 season will go down as one of the most painful in Dallas Cowboys history. The futility on the field has left the fan base torn between wanting a pride-salvaging win over Washington and hoping the team looks good while still losing to preserve the top four draft position. Mostly, we just want the pain to be over. What some may have forgotten, however, is that the turmoil for the Cowboys began long before the string of injuries that so degraded the performance on the field. And one small positive to carry with us as we start the new year, along with a high draft slot, is that things should be much less tumultuous in 2016.

It began with the DeMarco Murray drama. We all know how that wound up, with the Philadelphia Eagles throwing a ton of money and cap space his direction to lure him away, only to see him largely wasted in a scheme he did not fit. As it turned out, the move may have damaged the Eagles for several years to come, and it certainly played a role in finally getting the constant irritation of Chip Kelly's celebrated genius out of the division. What is often forgotten is that the Cowboys had an offer on the table that, according to all reports, Murray would have taken if the unexpected big payday from Philly had not come along. Had the Cowboys retained Murray, it is very likely that they would have made better use of his talent, and also would not have been as severely affected by the eventual meltdown of Joseph Randle. They would likely not have made a now-wasted trade for Christine Michael, and if the running game to start the season had been at all reminiscent of the dominant performance from 2014, perhaps we would not be looking at 11 losses and counting despite the other injuries.

One factor driving the decision to put a hard ceiling on what the Cowboys would pay Murray was the desire to have the cap space/money to get a long term deal done with Dez Bryant. While Dallas could have found a way to pay both, they made the decision that they would rather just have to manipulate contracts to get Bryant's deal in place. But things did not go smoothly or quickly with those negotiations. It would take until July 15th to get Bryant's name signed to what wound up as a five-year, $70 million deal with $32 million in guaranteed money. And the negotiations became a veritable soap opera of drama, with rumors of ill will and a chance of a holdout flying around. It also kept Bryant out of the offseason conditioning program, which did not help in getting him ready for the season. The broken bone in his foot that he suffered in the first game of the season may not have been avoidable had he been signed much earlier, but the question remains.

The third disruptive event was the signing of Greg Hardy. First came the tidal wave of outrage and criticism over the domestic violence incidence that had kept him off the field in 2014. Then there was the prolonged wait for the NFL to decide what to do about his suspension using their established method of reading goat entrails, consulting a Magic 8 Ball, and above all checking on public reaction every ten minutes or so. Then there was the appeal, and the renewed cries of injustice and calls for summary execution. There is little doubt that the four-game suspension that eventually was enforced was very detrimental to the Cowboys' defense, and Hardy was probably impacted somewhat in his performance.

A bit less obvious but still disruptive was the suspension levied against Rolando McClain for violating the NFL's substance abuse policy. It was a bit out-of-the-blue for fans, but the team was likely aware that it was coming. McClain seemed much more affected by his suspension, and was never the player this season that he was in his first year with the Cowboys.

Also not as prominent was the brief holdout by Jeremy Mincey over his contract. Although it was resolved fairly quickly, it was just another distraction for the team.

Big issues, none of them directly related to play on the field, but indirectly affecting preparation and team chemistry. All involved top players or team leaders.

So far, 2016 does not have any of these issues facing them. The Cowboys don't have anything like the Murray/Bryant decisions to make regarding top talents. At the moment, there are no known suspensions looming (although those can always crop up with little or no warning). And even if Hardy is re-signed, the furor over him is receding with time and the other scandals that inevitably crop up in the league. At the moment, all indications are that Jerry and Stephen Jones are not anticipating major upheaval with the coaching staff, so everyone should be largely on the same page.

How much did the offseason chaos in 2015 contribute to the eventual collapse of the regular season? It is impossible to say, but it is also likely that there was at least some impact. Now the Cowboys should see a comparatively calm and orderly offseason. That is not guaranteed, but it seems almost impossible that this year would see a similar level of distraction and tumult. And perhaps a calmer process may lead to more success when the season comes. At least, we can hope so.

Follow me @TomRyleBTB

Continue reading...
 

Fletch

To The Moon
Messages
18,395
Reaction score
14,042
usa-today-9011624.0.jpg

Assuming that the team is keeping the coaching staff largely intact, things should be much less stressful for Dallas this year.

The 2015 season will go down as one of the most painful in Dallas Cowboys history. The futility on the field has left the fan base torn between wanting a pride-salvaging win over Washington and hoping the team looks good while still losing to preserve the top four draft position. Mostly, we just want the pain to be over. What some may have forgotten, however, is that the turmoil for the Cowboys began long before the string of injuries that so degraded the performance on the field. And one small positive to carry with us as we start the new year, along with a high draft slot, is that things should be much less tumultuous in 2016.

It began with the DeMarco Murray drama. We all know how that wound up, with the Philadelphia Eagles throwing a ton of money and cap space his direction to lure him away, only to see him largely wasted in a scheme he did not fit. As it turned out, the move may have damaged the Eagles for several years to come, and it certainly played a role in finally getting the constant irritation of Chip Kelly's celebrated genius out of the division. What is often forgotten is that the Cowboys had an offer on the table that, according to all reports, Murray would have taken if the unexpected big payday from Philly had not come along. Had the Cowboys retained Murray, it is very likely that they would have made better use of his talent, and also would not have been as severely affected by the eventual meltdown of Joseph Randle. They would likely not have made a now-wasted trade for Christine Michael, and if the running game to start the season had been at all reminiscent of the dominant performance from 2014, perhaps we would not be looking at 11 losses and counting despite the other injuries.

One factor driving the decision to put a hard ceiling on what the Cowboys would pay Murray was the desire to have the cap space/money to get a long term deal done with Dez Bryant. While Dallas could have found a way to pay both, they made the decision that they would rather just have to manipulate contracts to get Bryant's deal in place. But things did not go smoothly or quickly with those negotiations. It would take until July 15th to get Bryant's name signed to what wound up as a five-year, $70 million deal with $32 million in guaranteed money. And the negotiations became a veritable soap opera of drama, with rumors of ill will and a chance of a holdout flying around. It also kept Bryant out of the offseason conditioning program, which did not help in getting him ready for the season. The broken bone in his foot that he suffered in the first game of the season may not have been avoidable had he been signed much earlier, but the question remains.

The third disruptive event was the signing of Greg Hardy. First came the tidal wave of outrage and criticism over the domestic violence incidence that had kept him off the field in 2014. Then there was the prolonged wait for the NFL to decide what to do about his suspension using their established method of reading goat entrails, consulting a Magic 8 Ball, and above all checking on public reaction every ten minutes or so. Then there was the appeal, and the renewed cries of injustice and calls for summary execution. There is little doubt that the four-game suspension that eventually was enforced was very detrimental to the Cowboys' defense, and Hardy was probably impacted somewhat in his performance.

A bit less obvious but still disruptive was the suspension levied against Rolando McClain for violating the NFL's substance abuse policy. It was a bit out-of-the-blue for fans, but the team was likely aware that it was coming. McClain seemed much more affected by his suspension, and was never the player this season that he was in his first year with the Cowboys.

Also not as prominent was the brief holdout by Jeremy Mincey over his contract. Although it was resolved fairly quickly, it was just another distraction for the team.

Big issues, none of them directly related to play on the field, but indirectly affecting preparation and team chemistry. All involved top players or team leaders.

So far, 2016 does not have any of these issues facing them. The Cowboys don't have anything like the Murray/Bryant decisions to make regarding top talents. At the moment, there are no known suspensions looming (although those can always crop up with little or no warning). And even if Hardy is re-signed, the furor over him is receding with time and the other scandals that inevitably crop up in the league. At the moment, all indications are that Jerry and Stephen Jones are not anticipating major upheaval with the coaching staff, so everyone should be largely on the same page.

How much did the offseason chaos in 2015 contribute to the eventual collapse of the regular season? It is impossible to say, but it is also likely that there was at least some impact. Now the Cowboys should see a comparatively calm and orderly offseason. That is not guaranteed, but it seems almost impossible that this year would see a similar level of distraction and tumult. And perhaps a calmer process may lead to more success when the season comes. At least, we can hope so.

Follow me @TomRyleBTB

Continue reading...
 

Toruk_Makto

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,242
Reaction score
17,336
usa-today-9011624.0.jpg

Assuming that the team is keeping the coaching staff largely intact, things should be much less stressful for Dallas this year.

The 2015 season will go down as one of the most painful in Dallas Cowboys history. The futility on the field has left the fan base torn between wanting a pride-salvaging win over Washington and hoping the team looks good while still losing to preserve the top four draft position.

Pride salvaging win?!?!
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,874
Reaction score
15,971
Not sure I really buy this all that much.

If anything we will see many more moving parts in 2016 than we did 2015.
2015 was mostly about bringing the guys back and relying upon internal improvement and growth.

2016 will be a much larger roster churn and possibly finding a new QB of the future which is more drama than anything Dez did.

Free Agents of note: Hardy, Mo, and Ro. All promise to be somewhat dramatic. Talented, but very imperfect players.
Other FA: Dunbar, Hanna(good blocking TE), Bernadeu and Leary(RFA but likely has to be tagged a 2nd and given a big raise to be kept which would likely anger him), Heath, Clutts, Turbin, Mincey, Jack Crawford, Wilber.

If anything we were hurt last season by complacency and thinking we were really good and just needing to "stick to the process".

Not sure we were really pushing to get better at every position or find value free agents.
I think we mostly just waited patiently to get back to the playoffs and have Dez get the call next time... as if we were destined for at least the NFC Championship Game.

This off-seaosn will be a much more active and agressive off-season IMHO and that is a good thing.
 

Zimmy Lives

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,165
Reaction score
4,631
Not sure I really buy this all that much.

If anything we will see many more moving parts in 2016 than we did 2015.
2015 was mostly about bringing the guys back and relying upon internal improvement and growth.

2016 will be a much larger roster churn and possibly finding a new QB of the future which is more drama than anything Dez did.

Free Agents of note: Hardy, Mo, and Ro. All promise to be somewhat dramatic. Talented, but very imperfect players.
Other FA: Dunbar, Hanna(good blocking TE), Bernadeu and Leary(RFA but likely has to be tagged a 2nd and given a big raise to be kept which would likely anger him), Heath, Clutts, Turbin, Mincey, Jack Crawford, Wilber.

If anything we were hurt last season by complacency and thinking we were really good and just needing to "stick to the process".

Not sure we were really pushing to get better at every position or find value free agents.
I think we mostly just waited patiently to get back to the playoffs and have Dez get the call next time... as if we were destined for at least the NFC Championship Game.

This off-seaosn will be a much more active and agressive off-season IMHO and that is a good thing.

Agreed.

As for off-season plan, my priority would be to find a backup QB who can actually run the offense (the way Tony would) without any major modifications. Next I would try and bring in safety and NT upgrades.
 

Toruk_Makto

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,242
Reaction score
17,336
Not sure I really buy this all that much.

If anything we will see many more moving parts in 2016 than we did 2015.
2015 was mostly about bringing the guys back and relying upon internal improvement and growth.

2016 will be a much larger roster churn and possibly finding a new QB of the future which is more drama than anything Dez did.

Free Agents of note: Hardy, Mo, and Ro. All promise to be somewhat dramatic. Talented, but very imperfect players.
Other FA: Dunbar, Hanna(good blocking TE), Bernadeu and Leary(RFA but likely has to be tagged a 2nd and given a big raise to be kept which would likely anger him), Heath, Clutts, Turbin, Mincey, Jack Crawford, Wilber.

If anything we were hurt last season by complacency and thinking we were really good and just needing to "stick to the process".

Not sure we were really pushing to get better at every position or find value free agents.
I think we mostly just waited patiently to get back to the playoffs and have Dez get the call next time... as if we were destined for at least the NFC Championship Game.

This off-seaosn will be a much more active and agressive off-season IMHO and that is a good thing.

Complacency?

We had an awesome draft and signed the biggest free agent on the market while giving our own free agent in Dez a giant deal. I don't see how that can be called being complacent.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,874
Reaction score
15,971
Complacency?

We had an awesome draft and signed the biggest free agent on the market while giving our own free agent in Dez a giant deal. I don't see how that can be called being complacent.

No problem agreeing to disagree but if you don't understand how little we actually did the discussion is largely pointless.

Hardy was a big-name but also a late signee we made for a bargain 1 year incentive-laden deal. It cost us far less than the Eagles paid for Murray.
He was always going to be suspended to start the year. But DE was our only real target for 2015. Stephen Jones told us that plenty of times.

We were fine at WR with Dez, Beas, TWill and Street even tho most knew that was a lightweight Wr corps and a terrible one if Dez was out for any reason. We didn't even blink when Harris left for NYG. Neven even brought in a vet camp guy for that role. --feel free to search for my thoughts as they were stated often.
At RB we were ALWAYS letting Murray walk. The fact it was Philly was minor drama but really that ship has sailed. DMC was a good low cost option but again fairly drama free.
At QB we were happy with Romo, Weeden and UDFA types.
At Safety we were fine.
At DT we were fine.
At LB we saw 3 or 4 guys sign elsewhere and did nothing much at all. Locked up a too be suspended Ro and drafted mid-late guys. Add Gachgar as a Special Teams coverage guy.

La'el Collins fell into our lap. We didn't do anything there other than show him Jerry's house.
Draft-wise we largely stuck where we were and made good BAP type players. Gregory was considered a "risk" but we didn't exactly trade up to go get him. By our pick there really was no risk.
We had a good draft but we didn't really do much but sit and take value. Gregory was wofeuflly overrated on most draftnik boards and Byron Jones underrated. They were worth slot paid but not much more or less.
We conduct a draft every year. Other than finally getting some benefit of being 50% of college playersa favorite team with Collins crazy situation we didn't do anything.

Expect this off-season to be a ton more active in every facet.
Coaches may get replaced, schemes once again tweaked, much more roster churn.
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,153
Reaction score
1,414
I do not want to lose against the deadskins. But like everyone else in here I do not have any kind of influence on how this game will go or any decisions that will be made in the offseason, but one decision I am really hoping for and that if we are picking in the top 5, I hope that our mindset is that our first pick is that of a player that will make an immediate impact day 1, he has to be seen as a immediate starter and QB is not that DE, is not, LB (maybe) SS, CB those two positions are seen as a need to start immediately.
RB that is the position I want addressed right off the bat, first pick, please be Ezekiel Elliot, he is the read deal, may be the second coming of Emmitt Smith, any way he will be the next great Cowboys RB. I believe he will be our Starting RB. If we do not get him I will be disappointed for a second, because I am sure we will get a great player
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,874
Reaction score
15,971
I do not want to lose against the deadskins. But like everyone else in here I do not have any kind of influence on how this game will go or any decisions that will be made in the offseason, but one decision I am really hoping for and that if we are picking in the top 5, I hope that our mindset is that our first pick is that of a player that will make an immediate impact day 1, he has to be seen as a immediate starter and QB is not that DE, is not, LB (maybe) SS, CB those two positions are seen as a need to start immediately.
RB that is the position I want addressed right off the bat, first pick, please be Ezekiel Elliot, he is the read deal, may be the second coming of Emmitt Smith, any way he will be the next great Cowboys RB. I believe he will be our Starting RB. If we do not get him I will be disappointed for a second, because I am sure we will get a great player

I can understand wanting an immediate impact.
But if the impact is winning picking a RB top 5 would the dumbest pick in NFL history.
It has been since the 1960s that a team won Super Bowls based on high pick running backs.

Emmitt was actually the first guy in 20 years that had led the league in rushing but won a Super Bowl even in the 90s.

Zeke Elliot is not worth a top 5 pick by any means. And he's not worth top 5 draft pick money which will be 20M+. We offered Demarco Murray 16 million.

Adrian Peterson went 7th in 2007. He's been past the Wild Card game ONCE when they had Brett Favre and beat Dallas. You do not build around running backs.
Too short a shelf life and too small an impact even if they are good.
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,153
Reaction score
1,414
I can understand wanting an immediate impact.
But if the impact is winning picking a RB top 5 would the dumbest pick in NFL history.
It has been since the 1960s that a team won Super Bowls based on high pick running backs.

Emmitt was actually the first guy in 20 years that had led the league in rushing but won a Super Bowl even in the 90s.

Zeke Elliot is not worth a top 5 pick by any means. And he's not worth top 5 draft pick money which will be 20M+. We offered Demarco Murray 16 million.

Adrian Peterson went 7th in 2007. He's been past the Wild Card game ONCE when they had Brett Favre and beat Dallas. You do not build around running backs.
Too short a shelf life and too small an impact even if they are good.

Well we do not need a QB right now, we do not need DE's, we do not need LB's, we do not need CB's (well maybe one) we do need another Safety, So genius what do we need that will make an immediate impact as the starter? Oh you want to pay a CB or a Safety that amount of money? I mean help me, I do not want to drop down and try to get more picks, (it would not be a bad move) but we need a RB and if we do not pick Elliot with that first pick there is not another RB that is any good in this draft. RB is what we need in the worst way and will put us back on track tow where we were in 2014, so yes a Rb would be worth the price
 

Toruk_Makto

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,242
Reaction score
17,336
No problem agreeing to disagree but if you don't understand how little we actually did the discussion is largely pointless.

Hardy was a big-name but also a late signee we made for a bargain 1 year incentive-laden deal. It cost us far less than the Eagles paid for Murray.
He was always going to be suspended to start the year. But DE was our only real target for 2015. Stephen Jones told us that plenty of times.

We were fine at WR with Dez, Beas, TWill and Street even tho most knew that was a lightweight Wr corps and a terrible one if Dez was out for any reason. We didn't even blink when Harris left for NYG. Neven even brought in a vet camp guy for that role. --feel free to search for my thoughts as they were stated often.
At RB we were ALWAYS letting Murray walk. The fact it was Philly was minor drama but really that ship has sailed. DMC was a good low cost option but again fairly drama free.
At QB we were happy with Romo, Weeden and UDFA types.
At Safety we were fine.
At DT we were fine.
At LB we saw 3 or 4 guys sign elsewhere and did nothing much at all. Locked up a too be suspended Ro and drafted mid-late guys. Add Gachgar as a Special Teams coverage guy.

La'el Collins fell into our lap. We didn't do anything there other than show him Jerry's house.
Draft-wise we largely stuck where we were and made good BAP type players. Gregory was considered a "risk" but we didn't exactly trade up to go get him. By our pick there really was no risk.
We had a good draft but we didn't really do much but sit and take value. Gregory was wofeuflly overrated on most draftnik boards and Byron Jones underrated. They were worth slot paid but not much more or less.
We conduct a draft every year. Other than finally getting some benefit of being 50% of college playersa favorite team with Collins crazy situation we didn't do anything.

Expect this off-season to be a ton more active in every facet.
Coaches may get replaced, schemes once again tweaked, much more roster churn.

What about any of this screams complacency?
 

jazzcat22

Staff member
Messages
81,309
Reaction score
102,232
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I can understand wanting an immediate impact.
But if the impact is winning picking a RB top 5 would the dumbest pick in NFL history.
It has been since the 1960s that a team won Super Bowls based on high pick running backs.

Emmitt was actually the first guy in 20 years that had led the league in rushing but won a Super Bowl even in the 90s.

Zeke Elliot is not worth a top 5 pick by any means. And he's not worth top 5 draft pick money which will be 20M+. We offered Demarco Murray 16 million.

Adrian Peterson went 7th in 2007. He's been past the Wild Card game ONCE when they had Brett Favre and beat Dallas. You do not build around running backs.
Too short a shelf life and too small an impact even if they are good.

Last I seen Elliot was projected mid first round.
And yes, no way should Dallas go RB in top 5 or top 8. If they want Elliot, trade down.
And I would love Elliot in the first round, regardless of history. But only if we get him around 15th or so in a trade down. And we pick up an extra 2nd round pick. Possibly a 4th too. I need to look at trade value charts.

But I am maintaining we get a QB in Lynch or Goff. The heck with the first player being a starter impact. A franchise QB will be much more of a long term impact than a LB or whatever.
 

jazzcat22

Staff member
Messages
81,309
Reaction score
102,232
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Well we do not need a QB right now, we do not need DE's, we do not need LB's, we do not need CB's (well maybe one) we do need another Safety, So genius what do we need that will make an immediate impact as the starter? Oh you want to pay a CB or a Safety that amount of money? I mean help me, I do not want to drop down and try to get more picks, (it would not be a bad move) but we need a RB and if we do not pick Elliot with that first pick there is not another RB that is any good in this draft. RB is what we need in the worst way and will put us back on track tow where we were in 2014, so yes a Rb would be worth the price

We can get a QB with the 1st pick, get Henry with the 2nd pick. Elliot should not be a #5 overall. I am an Ohio State fan, and want Elliot, but not as #5. Trade down, get him around #15, pick Wentz in the 2nd round. and still use that extra 2nd round on a defensive player.
 

BotchedLobotomy

Wide Right
Messages
15,514
Reaction score
23,619
We will have Johnny Football drama in some sort of way or another.................book it.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,874
Reaction score
15,971
Well we do not need a QB right now, we do not need DE's, we do not need LB's, we do not need CB's (well maybe one) we do need another Safety, So genius what do we need that will make an immediate impact as the starter? Oh you want to pay a CB or a Safety that amount of money? I mean help me, I do not want to drop down and try to get more picks, (it would not be a bad move) but we need a RB and if we do not pick Elliot with that first pick there is not another RB that is any good in this draft. RB is what we need in the worst way and will put us back on track tow where we were in 2014, so yes a Rb would be worth the price

alright. fair question.

Immediate impact at 4-8: Treadwell WR, Vernon Hargreaves CB(Cheaper than Carr or Mo FWIW), Joey Bosa DE, Jalen Ramsey FS FSU, Miles Jack LB(replaces Ro McClain).
I would gladly pay ANY of those guys by draft slot. DMC had the 5th highest rushing total and we pay him 1.1 million. Church and Wilcox may honestly have been the worst starting pair of safeties in football so I am fine with 4m/5m this year to upgrade that traditionally terrible spot.
LaQuon Treadwell is simply a freak. Only severe injury keeps him from being a consensus top 3 pick. His number may well have been staggering. He's a huge upgrade at #2 WR... Pushing Street off the roster and everyone else down one spot makes the WR corps strong instead of soft. Beas, TWill are insanely dangerous as 3rd WR options and Twill at least knows the positions and offense well enough to play slot or outside as Dez/Treadwell gets breathers.
Jack and Hargreaves may not be huge improvements over guys they replace day 1 but they will be as cheap or cheaper and have tremendous long-term value. Ro is a discipline and concussion issue. Mo is injury and confidence. Both may cost a fortune after this free spending off-season. They are both int he top 5 players available at their position and arguably top 3. They will get paid.

I would much rather resign Turbin and Dunbar for peanuts and go with that backfield then neglect some other position where we are far below average in production and need massive assists.

I would also seriously take Jared Goff, except he'll go 1st overall because no one is that stupid! It would be like passing on Troy Aikman. That kid is very accurate, very smart has NFL size and NFL arm strength. No brainer.

Before you discuss QB as immediate help really think through how much better this team would have been with Goff at the helm versus Weeden or Cassel. How even if we were terrible on offense it would have made the season imminently more watchable.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,874
Reaction score
15,971
We will have Johnny Football drama in some sort of way or another.................book it.

That might be a best case scenario.
Really cheap solution and offers osme improvement right now as the back up with enough upside ot shut everyone up.
Can run this exact offense. Does buy time by nature. Has similar arm to Romo and more of a get a guy open by buying time type like Romo than a throw a guy open type.
Dez will LOVE him. He fed Mike Evans steeadily inc overage and allowed him to just make plays.
Can get help you in red zone and short yardage with legs even more than Romo.

Plus you remove any designs in draft since Goff is gone. Carson Wentz and Paxton Lynch have value but neiother is as good as Manziel today.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,874
Reaction score
15,971
Last I seen Elliot was projected mid first round.
And yes, no way should Dallas go RB in top 5 or top 8. If they want Elliot, trade down.
And I would love Elliot in the first round, regardless of history. But only if we get him around 15th or so in a trade down. And we pick up an extra 2nd round pick. Possibly a 4th too. I need to look at trade value charts.

But I am maintaining we get a QB in Lynch or Goff. The heck with the first player being a starter impact. A franchise QB will be much more of a long term impact than a LB or whatever.

I have a couple problems with that plan.

1. I don't want to trade down below the generally accepted cut off for elite players. That's usually 4-8 players but we'd need to see/hear this year. Hurts too bad to lose enough to get up here just to dumpster dive down below the rare/uniqie talents.
2. Zeke is easily the top RB prospect in this draft. But last year he'd have battled and likely lost out to Gordan as #2. He wasn't in Gurley's league. And I don't think he is as good a prospect as either Fournette or McCaffrey next year. So I can't give up a first round pick at that postion He may be tremendous but he is not a generational talent. He played with 4 and 5 stars all over that Buckeye offense and really took off this year when the Texas kid came in as a running threat as well. And I don't like his challenging his coaches nor his driving without a license months before being drafted when being on his Ps and Qs should have been priority 1.

In sum you are handing a cocky, self-entitled player with some history of authority issues 15-20 million at a position where 7m is almost franchise salary money. If he is really good you gotta pay him franchise money and go well beyond slot for RB.
All while having what will certainly be the highest paid OL in football at the time. I just do not see the future fit nor value.
Now a trade down 5--6 spots in round 2 then take Derrick Henry? I am all aboard that plan.
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,153
Reaction score
1,414
alright. fair question.

Immediate impact at 4-8: Treadwell WR, Vernon Hargreaves CB(Cheaper than Carr or Mo FWIW), Joey Bosa DE, Jalen Ramsey FS FSU, Miles Jack LB(replaces Ro McClain).
I would gladly pay ANY of those guys by draft slot. DMC had the 5th highest rushing total and we pay him 1.1 million. Church and Wilcox may honestly have been the worst starting pair of safeties in football so I am fine with 4m/5m this year to upgrade that traditionally terrible spot.
LaQuon Treadwell is simply a freak. Only severe injury keeps him from being a consensus top 3 pick. His number may well have been staggering. He's a huge upgrade at #2 WR... Pushing Street off the roster and everyone else down one spot makes the WR corps strong instead of soft. Beas, TWill are insanely dangerous as 3rd WR options and Twill at least knows the positions and offense well enough to play slot or outside as Dez/Treadwell gets breathers.
Jack and Hargreaves may not be huge improvements over guys they replace day 1 but they will be as cheap or cheaper and have tremendous long-term value. Ro is a discipline and concussion issue. Mo is injury and confidence. Both may cost a fortune after this free spending off-season. They are both int he top 5 players available at their position and arguably top 3. They will get paid.

I would much rather resign Turbin and Dunbar for peanuts and go with that backfield then neglect some other position where we are far below average in production and need massive assists.

I would also seriously take Jared Goff, except he'll go 1st overall because no one is that stupid! It would be like passing on Troy Aikman. That kid is very accurate, very smart has NFL size and NFL arm strength. No brainer.

Before you discuss QB as immediate help really think through how much better this team would have been with Goff at the helm versus Weeden or Cassel. How even if we were terrible on offense it would have made the season imminently more watchable.

I disagree with all that. Goff as a rookie the offense would have been the same maybe worse, yes he is smart, accurate, and has size, I like Goff. he will not be there as you say maybe, but if he is there it does not mean that the teams that passed on him is stupid, they just have more immediate needs than QB, like us. we have DE's galore. We can always get a LB, there are a lot more LBs that are just as good maybe even better than Myles Jack, he just gets all the pub because he is attending one of thse big universities that gets alot of pub. I have seen better LBs at schools that do not get a lot of pub, and does not play in one of the top conferences, these guys are intelligent, they are like Luke Kueckly and Sean Lee. Yes get rid of Church and Wilcox, Carr and Claiborne, but you do not have to take one are two of those in early rounds there are a lot they have to do their due diligence, I have seen some good DBs that will come in later rounds. Treadwell, this is the first I have ever heard of him, but there are better WRs that can be had we do not want an injury prone guy, that is a wasted pick, Tyler Boyd, would replace williams, the young guy from Ohio State would replace him, Wr is not hard. Keep Turbin I agree and Lance even Mcfadden but you have to go after the number one RB in this draft if he is there with our first pick, he would instantly put our offense back on top and DMc ad Turbin would be insurance incase of injury or when rest is needed. Heck Elliot would make Lance Dunbar null and void because he can do everything Lance gives us in fact he gives us what all of them gives us and he is just one player. I do not see how you don't see this? Stop believing the hype these so called experts are putting out they do not know!!! Get Elliot first and then take Hogan from Stanford he is a proven winner and he has the size, the accuracy the mobility and the intelligence, Oh he comes from an NFL style offense so he has a head start on all of the QBs coming from read options, zone read and whatever else gimmicky offense colleges run, when it comes to reading defenses
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,153
Reaction score
1,414
We can get a QB with the 1st pick, get Henry with the 2nd pick. Elliot should not be a #5 overall. I am an Ohio State fan, and want Elliot, but not as #5. Trade down, get him around #15, pick Wentz in the 2nd round. and still use that extra 2nd round on a defensive player.

The Best QB that is NFL ready coming out will be Hogan from Stanford, he can read defense has run and NFL offense for 5yrs, because that is what Stanford runs, he has mobility, an arm, he accurate he has size and he is very intelligent. he will be there in the 2nd/3rd, maybe even 4th, but I would not wait to long, oh he is a proven winner. Elliot is a necessity, he will impact the offense immediately. Henry will not be very good in the NFL, that will be another RB from Alabama that will bust
 
Top