News: BTB: Cowboys Cap Casualties? Three Players Who Might Be Candidates To Be Cut

[Kaiser]

DAL would save 6.8m cutting Carr.n.

I haven't read that number anywhere, where are you getting 6.8?

Everything I have seen is Carr has a salary of 9.1MM, with 7.4MM in dead money if he is cut, with 2.7 of that potentially deferred into 2017 if he is a June 1 cut. I have never seen the 6.8MM savings number.

 

[Kaiser]

I like how you conveniently leave out the part where his cap hit was 8m the first 2 years instead of 20m

Quit trying to make simple accounting practices sound like gross mismanagement

Also people forget that we signed Carr as a FA because our Corners were atrocious the year before. We had guys like Brian McCann and our starters were Mike Jenkins and TNew in really down years. Not overpaying for a CB that offseason would have been like not overpaying in dollars or draft picks for a QB this offseason.

 

[Kaiser]

Someone people are willing to look a fool if it means they get to throw an insult Jones' way.

Funny to read that when you insulted me yesterday on Hardy's contract, which you clearly don't understand.

 

[JoeKing]

Cut Carr he's finally far enough into his contract to make that move more acceptable. Church is the leading tackler on the team so I would not lump him in with folks like Wilcox that just aren't earning their pay check. Free will probable get beat out of his job next season anyway. I never have felt he was worth the contract we gave him.

 

[Kaiser]

Cut Carr he's finally far enough into his contract to make that move more acceptable. Church is the leading tackler on the team so I would not lump him in with folks like Wilcox that just aren't earning their pay check. Free will probable get beat out of his job next season anyway. I never have felt he was worth the contract we gave him.

I agree on those, but my take on Carr is that his contract is a sunk cost. It was designed to be low in the first two years and high the last two, but the decision at this point is do you save 1.7MM by cutting him.

In that scenario, I really don't see an Alan Ball or Corey White playing better for that 1.7MM. IMO Carr is an OK #2 CB whose main problem this year was that he was forced to play in the #1 CB spot a lot. If he was the #3 CB (Scandrick moving to the slot like he normally does on passing downs), Carr would be a good player in that role. He is going to be overpaid this year irregardless, its just a matter of what we do with him.

 

[JoeKing]

I agree on those, but my take on Carr is that his contract is a sunk cost. It was designed to be low in the first two years and high the last two, but the decision at this point is do you save 1.7MM by cutting him.

In that scenario, I really don't see an Alan Ball or Corey White playing better for that 1.7MM. IMO Carr is an OK #2 CB whose main problem this year was that he was forced to play in the #1 CB spot a lot. If he was the #3 CB (Scandrick moving to the slot like he normally does on passing downs), Carr would be a good player in that role. He is going to be overpaid this year irregardless, its just a matter of what we do with him.

I think Corey White is already gone, isn't he?

 

[Kaiser]

I think Corey White is already gone, isn't he?

He is, my point is that guys like Corey White and Alan Ball are what you get if you spend that 1.7MM signing a replacement for Carr. Sorry I wasn't clear.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Funny to read that when you insulted me yesterday on Hardy's contract, which you clearly don't understand.

You offered a ridiculous contract situation.

 

[gmoney112]

I haven't read that number anywhere, where are you getting 6.8?

Everything I have seen is Carr has a salary of 9.1MM, with 7.4MM in dead money if he is cut, with 2.7 of that potentially deferred into 2017 if he is a June 1 cut. I have never seen the 6.8MM savings number.

He also had a signing bonus and a restructure bonus. I think his cap hit is around 13-14 million. So you save 6-7 mill in 2016 by cutting him. If you use June 1st designation, even more.

 

[Kaiser]

You offered a ridiculous contract situation.

No, I posted that Hardy would get 5MM per year guaranteed with a lot of incentives - and you posted a stupid insult in response.

I'll copy a list below of the top free agent contracts for DE's over the last two years. NONE of them got 5 million per year guaranteed. The closest was Jerry Hughes, coming off two consecutive ten sack teams. Hardy is coming off two seasons where he was suspended more games than he played. He has 5.5 sacks this year.

I'll copy the other FA contracts below, feel free to chime in how my post of 5MM per season guaranteed is ridiculous. And try not to look stupid.


Jerry Hughes, DE/OLB, Bills.

4.4 Million per season guaranteed, 9 MM per season with incentives.


Brian Orakpo

3.375 Million per season guaranteed, 7.75 MM per season with incentives.


Pernell McPhee, DE/OLB, Ravens.

3.1 Million per season guaranteed, 7.75 MM per season with incentives.


Trent Cole, DE/OLB, Eagles.

3.5 Million per season guaranteed, 7 MM per season with incentives.


The year before Michael Bennett of the Seahawks was considered the best DE in FA and got 4 Million per season guaranteed, 7.125 MM per season with incentives. Also Jared Allen got 3.875 per season guaranteed, 8MM per season with incentives.

 

[Kaiser]

DAL would save 6.8m cutting Carr.

Never mind, I found it. At that level, I would expect Carr to take a renegotiation down. He can get more in Dallas as the 2nd or 3rd CB than he would get on the open market, and Dallas can save as much or more in the restructure than they would cutting him.

I would expect it to happen late in the offseason also, it only helps the Cowboys negotiating position to let the other team's starting spots fill up with draft picks and the normal free agents.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

No, I posted that Hardy would get 5MM per year guaranteed with a lot of incentives - and you posted a stupid insult in response.

I'll copy a list below of the top free agent contracts for DE's over the last two years. NONE of them got 5 million per year guaranteed. The closest was Jerry Hughes, coming off two consecutive ten sack teams. Hardy is coming off two seasons where he was suspended more games than he played. He has 5.5 sacks this year.

I'll copy the other FA contracts below, feel free to chime in how my post of 5MM per season guaranteed is ridiculous. And try not to look stupid.


Jerry Hughes, DE/OLB, Bills.

4.4 Million per season guaranteed, 9 MM per season with incentives.


Brian Orakpo

3.375 Million per season guaranteed, 7.75 MM per season with incentives.


Pernell McPhee, DE/OLB, Ravens.

3.1 Million per season guaranteed, 7.75 MM per season with incentives.


Trent Cole, DE/OLB, Eagles.

3.5 Million per season guaranteed, 7 MM per season with incentives.


The year before Michael Bennett of the Seahawks was considered the best DE in FA and got 4 Million per season guaranteed, 7.125 MM per season with incentives. Also Jared Allen got 3.875 per season guaranteed, 8MM per season with incentives.

So you want to sign him for 5 years 50m?

Finish your contract offer. 4 years and 20m guaranteed with incentives isn't a contract offer. And it's the weirdest way i've heard a contract listed.

What is fully guranteed?

What is his 3 year take?

What is he getting on signing?

Where are you looking to place him on the top DE contract list?

 

[Nightman]

I haven't read that number anywhere, where are you getting 6.8?

Everything I have seen is Carr has a salary of 9.1MM, with 7.4MM in dead money if he is cut, with 2.7 of that potentially deferred into 2017 if he is a June 1 cut. I have never seen the 6.8MM savings number.

I made a small math error and it should be 6.4m but it was too late to edit it.

Like you said if they June 1st cut him they save the full 9.1m of his salary and take a 4.7m hit this year and 2.7m next year.

If they just cut him out right, they would save the 9.1m in salary but would take the full 7.4m cap hit in dead money. But that is 6.4m less than his scheduled 13.8m hit right now.

 

[Nightman]

So you want to sign him for 5 years 50m?

Finish your contract offer. 4 years and 20m guaranteed with incentives isn't a contract offer. And it's the weirdest way i've heard a contract listed.

What is fully guranteed?

What is his 3 year take?

What is he getting on signing?

Where are you looking to place him on the top DE contract list?

I would find the middle ground. I would offer 5/45m with 18m guaranteed.

And then 500k per sack over 13.

 

[Kaiser]

Finish your contract offer. 4 years and 20m guaranteed with incentives isn't a contract offer. And it's the weirdest way i've heard a contract listed.

LOL! Every website that deals with contracts in any detail lists them as guaranteed money and incentives.

And why do you need any further detail? What I posted was enough for you to call it ridiculous and say it was like offering Romo and a 7th for Aaron Rogers.

Just admit you made a stupid post. I don't expect an apology but most of your posts are solid, you should stop digging when you are this deep in a hole.

 

[Kaiser]

If they just cut him out right, they would save the 9.1m in salary but would take the full 7.4m cap hit in dead money. But that is 6.4m less than his scheduled 13.8m hit right now.

I saw it after my first post. I have a higher opinion of him than you do, I think he would be good as the 3rd CB and we can likely restructure him down that 6MM (or more). Last year there was no cap savings in cutting him and his agent was smart enough to call the team's bluff.

Either way, I think they settle things with Carr late in the offseason when they have the most leverage and they know how FA and the draft played out.

 

[Kaiser]

I would find the middle ground. I would offer 5/45m with 18m guaranteed.

And then 500k per sack over 13.

Toruk thinks you just offered Tony Romo and a 7th for Aaron Rogers.

I think it will take more than that, mostly because elite pass rushers are scarce in the NFL. There are a lot of things working in the Cowboys favor, but I'm not sure we could get him that cheaply.

 

[Nightman]

I saw it after my first post. I have a higher opinion of him than you do, I think he would be good as the 3rd CB and we can likely restructure him down that 6MM (or more). Last year there was no cap savings in cutting him and his agent was smart enough to call the team's bluff.

Either way, I think they settle things with Carr late in the offseason when they have the most leverage and they know how FA and the draft played out.

I see it as Carr or Hardy. I would obviously want Hardy.

I liked the Carr signing years ago but he just doesn't do anything. No INTs, no PDs and hardly any tackles. I would rather pay Claiborne 4-5m and I don't like Mo either.

 

[Wood]

I don't see how Carr is going anywhere. We tried this last year and he didn't flinch. He won't take Doug Free special and Scandrick is coming back from injury. I want Jones at S for good and that probably means we live with Carr another year. Draft CB somewhere in 1-3 round.

 

[Kaiser]

I liked the Carr signing years ago but he just doesn't do anything. No INTs, no PDs and hardly any tackles. I would rather pay Claiborne 4-5m and I don't like Mo either.

I think its mostly about matchups. Carr has always been somewhere between a solid #2 CB and a solid #3 - but this year he had to play too many #1 WRs and obviously got killed. I think if he was our 3rd CB he would fine.