Byron Jones: Is he a bad safety?

[LocimusPrime]

Does the number left of the players name indicate ranking?

 

[Denim Chicken]

Does the number left of the players name indicate ranking?

Yes, but that includes all defensive positions (e.g. CBs, LBs, DEs...) ranked on "plays on passes". This list is safeties ranked by passes defended.

Jones would be the #15 safety if ranked by "plays on passes" which is interceptions + passes defended.

Also interesting, the entire Dallas backfield last year below. Nolan Carroll ranked #61.

Obviously this stat doesn't show the effectiveness of a player in coverage entirely, but is more to determine a player's nature as a "ballhawk".

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

There's no such thing as a Cover 2 in thirds, that would be a Cover 3. Look at the two outside corners and safeties. All 4 are dropping back into deep coverage.

Everyone else cheated towards the closest receiver, because there was so much empty space. Jones was covering air and got out of position.

If I said that it's not what I meant. For lack of a better term it was a specialty coverage. There were two safeties playing over the top (Wilcox and Heath). They had deepest halves (Cover 2). Under that were three players covering what amounted to thirds with Carr on one side, Lee dropping in the middle and I can't tell who the other DB was lined up outside on the far side (it might be Claiborne). Jones and another DB opposite him (I think Scandrick) are responsible for the sidelines underneath that layer - picking up crossers or potential comeback routes. You can tell Jones sees Cook crossing and stands where his route was heading, forcing Cook to take his route behind Jones. Jones is supposed to have help behind him. Jones knows that if he's playing between the receiver and Rodgers that it's going to be a difficult pass to complete - especially since Jones is watching Rodgers and reacting to him. He also thinks Carr should be in the area behind him.

 

[mahoneybill]

If I said that it's not what I meant. For lack of a better term it was a specialty coverage. There were two safeties playing over the top (Wilcox and Heath). They had deepest halves (Cover 2). Under that were three players covering what amounted to thirds with Carr on one side, Lee dropping in the middle and I can't tell who the other DB was lined up outside on the far side (it might be Claiborne). Jones and another DB opposite him (I think Scandrick) are responsible for the sidelines underneath that layer - picking up crossers or potential comeback routes. You can tell Jones sees Cook crossing and stands where his route was heading, forcing Cook to take his route behind Jones. Jones is supposed to have help behind him. Jones knows that if he's playing between the receiver and Rodgers that it's going to be a difficult pass to complete - especially since Jones is watching Rodgers and reacting to him. He also thinks Carr should be in the area behind him.

Nice summary

 

[big dog cowboy]

Looking back at the Woodson era I noticed we had Brock Marion as FS and Darren as SS. I think thats the problem Jones has at this point. He doesn't have the complementary player with him at this point.

I've been on record for years saying the Cowboy never replaced Woodson. There have been a couple of decent guys but no play makers.

 

[Redball Express]

It's relative. He'd be considered "pretty good" if he was drafted in the 4-7 rounds.

But as a 1st round pick, he's been lackluster. No ball skills whatsoever. Super athletic and smart, but not living up to the standard set by his draft position.

If he shows no improvement next year as far as being more instinctive and becoming more of a game-changer, I'd probably not offer him a second contract.

Knowing the Cowboys.

he will get a second contract with more incentive clauses less cash up front.

 

[Floatyworm]

IDK when a QB has 6 seconds to throw, no containment, along with a clear field of vision, tough to judge a DB. Can't get enough of the 3 man rush Rod

Absolutely hate that defense. Have we ever...made a play out of that D? Gives the QB way too much time. And our DBs just don't react to the football. That's a bad recipe for success.

 

[kumizi]

He should get better but one thing is apparent. Dude has no clue how to make a play on the ball. Don't expect many INTs.

 

[Scotman]

Sometimes the anecdotal evidence is accurate. If you watched all the games, we just weren't getting to the passer. That's the problem. if we improve the pass rush and the secondary can't deliver a few turnovers and more incompletions, you'll see that.

What I see right now is a secondary that has to play on roller skates the whole game. They aren't able to cover that long and they get worse as they get run down. No turnovers are a part of that in my opinion.

Again, it's just what I see. No stats to back that up. But I think that is as valid an opinion as looking at one groups', or one individual's, statistics completely out of context.

 

[Scotman]

Darren Woodson said he was the best player on defense (or was that the best player in the secondary)?

So we should take the opinion of some guy like him instead of all the internet experts?

/S

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

Absolutely hate that defense. Have we ever...made a play out of that D? Gives the QB way too much time. And our DBs just don't react to the football. That's a bad recipe for success.

That defense was the reason we beat GB the first time. That defense became our most popular on most passing downs. Not that the players were that great running it, but it was more effective than our nickel.

 

[ondaedg]

He's got excellent range and tremendous speed and explosiveness to make up for plays where he gets fooled on or another DB gets fooled on. He's very good in man coverage and he can play top tier TE's well (don't know what you're talking about since he basically stopped Gronk, stopped Ertz in the first game, shut down Barnridge, and shut down Pitta. He's a solid form tackler that has been solid against the run. I think he's okay in zone coverage as he doesn't quite have the instincts just yet. But so much of his zone coverage was at single high safety because you don't dare put Wilcox or Church at that spot. That means being less likely to make an interception because you're not where the ball is being thrown as much.

And if you watch All-22, you can see a lot of mistakes being made by Carr, Church, Wilcox, Claiborne and Hitchens in coverage where Byron would tell them to be in a certain position and they would still be out of position. This season they weren't nearly as bad, but none of the players listed have a feel for zone coverage. Carr and Claiborne are man guys and Claiborne still has very good man skills. Church is a zone coverage guys, but he's very limited and doesn't have Kam Chancellor type hitting ability to make up for it. Wilcox can play man well and got better as the robber, but he's really lean on zone coverage, which is too bad since he hits like a truck. Hitchens gets fooled often and relies on his speed to make up for it.

I'd like to see Byron work on his zone coverage, but I'd also like to see him get to play more intermediate and short zone coverage. That's part of the exciting thing about Heath is he is much more versatile in coverage. I'd like to see him get more matchup man against good pass receiving TE's and big WR's like Alshon Jeffrey. I'd like to see him play with quality zone corners and a solid coverage linebacker at the MIKE. Get me a decent pass rush and he may not be Ed Reed (or Earl Thomas), but I'll take a Malcolm Jenkins type any day of the week.

YR

Speed and range doesn't mean he's good. And for as many good games as he's had against TEs, he's had some bad ones too. Jordan Reed tore him up as an example. He is ok but he has not shown that flash of brilliance that one would expect from a future pro bowler. Claiborne never showed that flash in his first two years and he turned out as just ok as well. The good and great ones don't need other guys to make them good.

 

[haleyrules]

When l think of Secondary players that need some time to reach their full potential... always remember Charlie Waters. He would never have had a chance in todays "show me now mentality". Time and experience is all important with player development.

 

[LocimusPrime]

To be fair. People said jones stopped Gronk. Gronk was 7 for 7 for 74 yards.

Gronk is a beast though so it's nothing against jones

 

[Pants]

I didn't read thru 9 pages, but slap a pass rush out there and see just how good he and the others can be

 

[dwreck27]

Im critical of Byron for not being a big time playmaker...

But from his draft spot in the 20s and him being a reliable starter who has made a "few" plays Ill take that knowing he has room to grow and hit his prime...

I Dont like knowing we have someone like church, carr, wilcox who are/were in their prime and could barely luck into a play

 

[texbumthelife]

He's not terrible, but he's also really not better than average at anything -- including covering TEs. He got abused last season when singled up on TE's and that's going to continue. His anticipation isn't good enough so he's always a step behind even slower athletes. As someone else said, his athleticism doesn't show up on the field. He needs to have a big season this year.

 

[Real1st]

This team needs better pass rushers so they can play zone and let the athleticism of players like Jones take over and make the plays. With the way the game is called in the NFL these days DBs simply cannot make plays in man anymore. Only the few elite CBs today can and how many of those guys are even consistent year to year? The last guy that was is on the way out and thats Revis.