Can you guess the player from the scouting report?

[VACowboy]

How many times have Cleveland drafted a QB cause they need a franchise guy? How many times did it work?

That's BS.....everybody over drafts QBs haha. ....guess Brady was over drafted in the 6th round maybe they could have got him in the 7th or maybe undrafted.

I'm not wanting to lose out on a HOF player for a QB

Tom Brady was drafted in 1999. That was a different era of football COMPLETELY. Every team is going to find gems in the later rounds now and then.

It's not BS. The entire league drafts quarterbacks higher than they are rated because the position has become so integral to winning. Right or wrong, that's the way it goes. And if you want one of the highest rated QBs in the draft, you're gonna need a top-10 pick. I hate that the league has done this to itself, but in today's NFL, if you don't have an exceptional quarterback, you have no chance to contend. We all went through the fun years as Jerry and company went passive-agressively about trying to replace Troy Aikman. (We should've taken the Hall of Famer, Tony Mandarich, right?) And I'd rather not wait a decade for the team to become relevant again once Romo retires. So, I'm not advocating drafting a QB at #4 that the team has as a second-rounder, but if Goff or Lynch is there and the Cowboys think he can be a franchise QB, I think he has to be the guy.

Incidentally, which Hall of Fame player are you afraid of passing over for a QB? Why is he a lock for the Hall any more than Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch?

 

[Alexander]

But YouTube scouts are never wrong.

He is talking about real scouts. The ones that do it for a living are wrong quite often.

 

[tyke1doe]

Actually, there were a lot of scouts that liked him. The draft grade on him was 6th round. Some had him going as high as the 4th round. That's why I was surprised he went to UDFA. I think they were just afraid of rawness and coming from a small school.

But, he worked hard at it and had the best head coach when it came to developing QB's. I thought Joey Harrington was going to be a great QB, but reading his article in the Players Tribune...he just didn't have the attitude for it. Boller was rushed too fast.

I think it goes to show that starting a QB right away is likely a bad move. Rodgers got the chance to sit and hone his craft and learn. Harrington, Boller and others did not.

YR

Someone had posted on this forum a while back comments made about Romo coming out of college. Even a Commanders scout dogged him. I wish I could remember the thread.

Anyway, I agree about starting quarterbacks too early. Few of them are ready their first year. But only the elite can bounce back from horrible first years like Aikman, Elway and Peyton did.

 

[Alexander]

Someone had posted on this forum a while back comments made about Romo coming out of college. Even a Commanders scout dogged him. I wish I could remember the thread.

Anyway, I agree about starting quarterbacks too early. Few of them are ready their first year. But only the elite can bounce back from horrible first years like Aikman, Elway and Peyton did.

Not exactly the same thing, but still interesting to read:
http://cowboyszone.com/threads/scouting-report-on-tony-romo-in-draft-insiders-03-yearbook.156152/

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Someone had posted on this forum a while back comments made about Romo coming out of college. Even a Commanders scout dogged him. I wish I could remember the thread.

Anyway, I agree about starting quarterbacks too early. Few of them are ready their first year. But only the elite can bounce back from horrible first years like Aikman, Elway and Peyton did.

Scouting reports will tend to sound that way. It's all about pointing out the flaws and focusing on them. That way the scout can say 'see, I told you this guy sucks.' But, he was given a 6th round grade which wasn't bad for a QB from Eastern Illinois and some had him as high as the 4th round although that was a bit optimistic.

What I recall from Rodgers is that the knock against him was mostly about the scheme. His coach was Jeff Tedford who produced great college QB's that struggled in the pros (used to be call the 'Tedford Wives'). He taught a throwing mechanics with the ball placed up by the ear and they threw a ton of screens. Some scouts even questioned his arm because of the heavy screen passes. Reminds me a lot of Lynch.








YR

 

[Alexander]

Okay, here it is on Romo:

WHAT SCOUTS WERE SAYING ABOUT ROMO
What NFL personnel men told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn about quarterback Tony Romo of Eastern Illinois before the 2003 draft:
Jerry Angelo, Chicago: "He's OK. I see him as maybe a four (fourth-round pick). I don't see him as being anything close to a first-day (top three rounds) guy."
Jon Kingdon, Oakland: "He flings it from all over. From every angle that you can throw it. He's a competitive, tough kid. He's got a shot to go somewhere."
Charley Armey, St. Louis: "Way down the line. He's a take-a-chance guy. I wouldn't draft him."
John Brunner, San Francisco: "I gave him like a fourth-round grade. Pretty good. Runs the shotgun. This year he passed a lot, and they didn't have as good a team. He carried their whole team. He's got a lot of pizzazz to him. I like him."
Ron Nay, Washington: "Not very accurate. Throws the ball all over the ballpark. IMG's trying to convince people he's really good but he isn't. Real late or free agent. I just can't imagine him being drafted."
Tom Donahoe, Buffalo: "He's OK. He's got a funny release, but he's got a pretty good arm."
Mark Hatley, Green Bay: "Had a great interview with us. He's a special cat now."
Marc Ross, Philadelphia: "He's OK. He's a good-sized kid. Not the greatest athlete. He might be a late guy."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...ad-become-a-packer-b99421331z1-287879551.html
----

What is funny is all of these scouts save Donahoe and Ross (Giants VP Player Evaluation) are pretty much out of the league now or in diminished roles.

Ron Nay, the Commanders one, got fired in 2003.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

The fact that such awesome all-timers like Cedric Benson, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, Travis Johnson, Erasmus James, Matt Jones, Alex Barron and Fabian Washington all went ahead of him really goes to show you a lot about how the draft functions and especially how QBs are misevaluated and undervalued. It was not like the 23 teams picking ahead of GB all had their starter and also a QB of the future. They went for "immediate impact starters".

Did you just day quarterbacks are undervalued Un the draft?

Is that a joke?

 

[Irvin88_4life]

He was projected to be. That's why he was there with a camera in his face every time another team skipped him.

Thats my point, doesn't matter where a player is projected you can find star players in any round. .......happens all the time

 

[Alexander]

Did you just day quarterbacks are undervalued Un the draft?

Is that a joke?

Teams that "need" or don't have a QB will reach. Those that have a quality QB or even an okay stopgap they feel comfortable with will avoid selecting and developing them in the draft.

It is a major reason why multiple teams passed on Rodgers. I don't think many teams thought he was not among the top 20 players available, but found reasons to pass on him until the Packers decided to take the opportunity.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Tom Brady was drafted in 1999. That was a different era of football COMPLETELY. Every team is going to find gems in the later rounds now and then.

It's not BS. The entire league drafts quarterbacks higher than they are rated because the position has become so integral to winning. Right or wrong, that's the way it goes. And if you want one of the highest rated QBs in the draft, you're gonna need a top-10 pick. I hate that the league has done this to itself, but in today's NFL, if you don't have an exceptional quarterback, you have no chance to contend. We all went through the fun years as Jerry and company went passive-agressively about trying to replace Troy Aikman. (We should've taken the Hall of Famer, Tony Mandarich, right?) And I'd rather not wait a decade for the team to become relevant again once Romo retires. So, I'm not advocating drafting a QB at #4 that the team has as a second-rounder, but if Goff or Lynch is there and the Cowboys think he can be a franchise QB, I think he has to be the guy.

Incidentally, which Hall of Fame player are you afraid of passing over for a QB? Why is he a lock for the Hall any more than Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch?

Never said don't draft a QB at 4. What I said was don't over draft cause you think you want a QB. Browns draft QBs all the time in the first, Gabbert, Manuel, Sanchez etc is what happens when you reach. It would be a shame to waste a 4 pick by reaching for a QB that turns out like Russell and miss out on a blue chip prospect that can impact the team now.

I could be wrong but I just don't see a QB worthy of the number 4 pick. ....things could change but right now I have guys like Bosa, Treadwell, Ramsey, Hargreaves ahead of Goff and Lynch

You also can't pick how you like. ....neither can I the question is who will Jerry pick and odds are not a QB with that 4th pick. Doesn't matter what you or I want, matters what the Cowboys do

 

[Boom]

Thats my point, doesn't matter where a player is projected you can find star players in any round. .......happens all the time

Sure, talent will appear outside of the evaluated rankings from both scouts and media. I think until they find a way to measure the "IT" factor that determines success, teams have to trust the scouting department. RXP's statement stated exactly that.

Are you advocating trading down to accumulate picks since the successful players can be had all the time at later points in the draft?

 

[reddyuta]

Thats my point, doesn't matter where a player is projected you can find star players in any round. .......happens all the time

by other teams.we are unimaginably bad at drafting in later RDs,i have never seen anything like it.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Sure, talent will appear outside of the evaluated rankings from both scouts and media. I think until they find a way to measure the "IT" factor that determines success, teams have to trust the scouting department. RXP's statement stated exactly that.

Are you advocating trading down to accumulate picks since the successful players can be had all the time at later points in the draft?

No, what I'm saying is we need talent and can't go into the draft saying we are taking a QB at number 4 pick. We must not fall into that trap, draft best available at time of pick. If we are at 4 and we have a few players in the same range then sure trade back. If Treadwell or Bosa is best on the board draft him, if Goff is there and he is best available draft him.

I'm just against drafting a certain position in certain round. Don't reach and take the best player on the board

 

[Irvin88_4life]

by other teams.we are unimaginably bad at drafting in later RDs,i have never seen anything like it.

We aren't the only team that misses on later rounds. Sure you can find a Brady or a Richard Sherman but is few and far in between.

Terence Mitchell was a late round pick and came in off the street a few weeks before the season ended and played well. Could argue he was one of our better DBs the last few weeks.

We have had late round picks not make our roster then go on to another team and play decent. I agree we need to be better in the later rounds but Dallas tends to be better then everybody picking up UDFA though

 

[VACowboy]

Never said don't draft a QB at 4. What I said was don't over draft cause you think you want a QB. Browns draft QBs all the time in the first, Gabbert, Manuel, Sanchez etc is what happens when you reach. It would be a shame to waste a 4 pick by reaching for a QB that turns out like Russell and miss out on a blue chip prospect that can impact the team now.

I could be wrong but I just don't see a QB worthy of the number 4 pick. ....things could change but right now I have guys like Bosa, Treadwell, Ramsey, Hargreaves ahead of Goff and Lynch

And I said, the entire league drafts quarterbacks higher than their ratings because the position is so important, and if you wait, you're still likely drafting a player higher than objective assessment says he should go. You're just doing it a little later. It's not about "thinking you want a quarterback." It's about knowing you need one and being in a position to draft him. You may not believe Goff or Lynch to be a franchise quarterback and pass on them both for that reason. Otherwise, if you need a QB and he's there, you don't draft a linebacker because he's rated 8 slots higher, whether you're picking at #4 or #40.

You also can't pick how you like. ....neither can I the question is who will Jerry pick and odds are not a QB with that 4th pick. Doesn't matter what you or I want, matters what the Cowboys do

Really? Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

And I said, the entire league drafts quarterbacks higher than their ratings because the position is so important, and if you wait, you're still likely drafting a player higher than objective assessment says he should go. You're just doing it a little later. It's not about "thinking you want a quarterback." It's about knowing you need one and being in a position to draft him. You may not believe Goff or Lynch to be a franchise quarterback and pass on them both for that reason. Otherwise, if you need a QB and he's there, you don't draft a linebacker because he's rated 8 slots higher, whether you're picking at #4 or #40.



Really? Thank you for clearing that up.

Ya that's smart let's throw our 4 round pick away cause you know everybody reaches a QB. Let's be like the Browns and over draft QBs.

Vikings, Raiders, Packers, Patriots and Bengals all have franchise QBs that wasn't top 20 picks. They let the draft come to them and took their QB and didn't over draft. Heck Romo wasn't even drafted.

I'm not saying don't draft a QB at 4 I'm saying don't reach. Plenty examples of teams not reaching for a QB. Seems like teams that reach. ......don't end up well

 

[Direwolf63]

How many times have Cleveland drafted a QB cause they need a franchise guy? How many times did it work?

That's BS.....everybody over drafts QBs haha. ....guess Brady was over drafted in the 6th round maybe they could have got him in the 7th or maybe undrafted.

I'm not wanting to lose out on a HOF player for a QB

Cleveland drafts a QB, then throws them to the wolves on day 1. Very few QB's can handle that situation. Peyton Mannings and Andrew Luck's are few and far between. Cleveland has ruined QB's because they start them right away.

We don't have to. We can draft a top prospect, give them a couple of training camps, work him in preseason, and give him thousands of mental reps while waiting for his turn. Then when Romo is gone, he is ready to go and his talent can take over. Then you have your QB for the next decade. This is much more important than picking up a guy like Treadwell. He won't help you if the QB after Romo is a stiff like Weeden or Cassel.

QB is the most important position in all of sports. Picking one and developing him has to be done right. The Aaron Rodgers model is the blueprint the Cowboys should be following. And step 1 is grabbing the best QB available at #4. IMO, everything (and everybody) else is secondary.

 

[Boom]

I'm just against drafting a certain position in certain round. Don't reach and take the best player on the board

I don't think you'll get any argument there. If the scouting dept has a QB as the BPA when the #4 pick comes around, do you want:

• Dallas to draft the QB
• Dallas to find an near equal skill player because QB can be had later
• Dallas to trade down

 

[Direwolf63]

I'm not saying don't draft a QB at 4 I'm saying don't reach. Plenty examples of teams not reaching for a QB. Seems like teams that reach. ......don't end up well

Well of course. We agree on that. Nobody is advocating reaching for a QB. But if Paxon Lynch is sitting there at #4 and your scouts are telling you he can become a franchise guy, you take him. Period. You take him ahead of Treadwell, Bosa, Hargreaves or anybody else you can think of. This franchise must start developing another franchise QB right away. And the odds are that you find that franchise guy at the top of the first round.

So now is the time to draft him........assuming the scouts are on board with it.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Cleveland drafts a QB, then throws them to the wolves on day 1. Very few QB's can handle that situation. Peyton Mannings and Andrew Luck's are few and far between. Cleveland has ruined QB's because they start them right away.

We don't have to. We can draft a top prospect, give them a couple of training camps, work him in preseason, and give him thousands of mental reps while waiting for his turn. Then when Romo is gone, he is ready to go and his talent can take over. Then you have your QB for the next decade. This is much more important than picking up a guy like Treadwell. He won't help you if the QB after Romo is a stiff like Weeden or Cassel.

QB is the most important position in all of sports. Picking one and developing him has to be done right. The Aaron Rodgers model is the blueprint the Cowboys should be following. And step 1 is grabbing the best QB available at #4. IMO, everything (and everybody) else is secondary.

Other then Rodgers not many QBs sit and learn and develop. You trust Wade to develop a QB?

Guess Raiders, Panthers and Seattle shouldn't have started Carr, Newton or Wilson. Maybe Jags shouldn't have started Bortles as a rookie or Washington with RG3.

Treadwell will help a young QB. You build a team around a player so when you do find that QB you want as a franchise QB he has a team and don't need to carry them on his back like Romo has for many years.

I'm not saying don't draft a QB I'm saying don't reach for one.

Palmer and Smith didn't play as well with their original teams that they are now. Why? Because they have a better team around them