CBS Sportsline: Goodell's no lawyer... so why take law in his own hands?

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ClayNation: Goodell's no lawyer ... so why take law in his own hands?
May 28, 2007
By Clay Travis

The NFL's clownish personal conduct policy implemented by Emperor Roger Goodell is an absolute joke. Not to mention a travesty of football justice.

Here's the deal -- one of the first things you learn in law school is that tough cases make bad law. That's because the facts of bad cases are difficult, if not impossible, to apply to future cases and facts. No matter how hard we try, we can't see all the implications of a tough case that will arrive in the future.

For instance, there is no doubt that the drumbeat of bad news surrounding Pacman Jones was a tough case. Even if, oh by the way, none of this bad news surrounding Pacman has resulted in a single conviction for him since he started receiving paychecks from the Tennessee Titans.

Pacman (and others) created a series of tough cases for a new commissioner, Roger Goodell, who cloaked himself in the garments of an emperor and had the power to be judge, jury and executioner for NFL justice thanks to a compliant union that has been asleep at the scales of justice. As if that weren't enough power, he also had the right to sit as his own appellate judge to rule upon the legitimacy of his own previous rulings.

Unfortunately, Emperor Goodell didn't go to law school and has never practiced law. If he had he would recognize how misguided his newly announced personal conduct policy is. It's significant that former commissioner Paul Tagliabue (an NYU Law School grad and by all accounts an amazing lawyer) did not feel the need to make the NFL an arbiter of off-field justice. Nor have other lawyer commissioners like David Stern of the NBA (Columbia Law School) or Gary Bettman of the NHL (NYU Law School) in their own league conduct policies.

While Stern has been criticized for his draconian control of the NBA's image, none of his off-court directives have come anywhere near the sweeping power of Goodell's personal conduct policy. To a large degree I think that's because these men are lawyers and recognize how difficult consistently meting out justice is. All of these men have seen in their life, in their schooling, or in their professional dealings that tough cases make bad law.

Emperor Goodell thumbed his nose at such legal nonsense, "It is not enough to avoid merely being found guilty of a crime," and "Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime," Goodell said. I keep repeating this language because its very sweep is so astounding.

And just 35 days ago I warned that Goodell's decision on league suspensions created far more legal headaches for the NFL than it actually solved. Emperor Goodell took a tough case and made bad NFL law. You didn't have to be a genius to see that applying this law to future NFL facts was going to be difficult, inconsistent, and arbitrary.

In fact, Pacman and his lawyers pointed this out in their appeal to the league by documenting hundreds of off-field legal issues involving hundreds of different NFL players that have not resulted in league suspensions or any particularized brand of NFL "justice."

Read through this list and tell me why each of these off-field actions since the year 2000 did not merit preemptive league punishment and these current situations do.

We can't see, none of us can, the tortured reasoning that applying one legal precedent can cause when that same precedent is applied to an entirely new set of facts. Particularly when these facts have to be applied, as here, before the actual judicial system has even rendered its verdict.

Even now, I would implore Emperor Goodell to clarify his new personal conduct policy and announce that the NFL simply will take no action against players, coaches, or employees until the American judicial system has rendered judgment on these cases.

If the NFL feels the need to have a precise legal framework upon which to consistently base its punishments, bang, there is one. It's easily understood and easily applied. More importantly, it leaves the initial application of justice and the determination of guilt or innocence where it should be, within our country's judicial system.

NFL players were citizens long before they were football players and they will be citizens long after their football careers are over. It's incredibly arrogant to suggest that these players' punishments should come first, not from a society of 300 million of which we are all members, but from a league with a membership of less than 2,000.

But, unfortunately, Emperor Goodell has chosen to impugn the American judicial process (and its results) for the cold comfort of preemptive punishment under the NFL's flawed personal conduct policy.

Now, the moment has come for Emperor Goodell to apply his own bad law to a new tough case, Michael Vick and his association with dog-fighting. ESPN reported this weekend that a reliable police informant can place Vick not only at the scene of dog fights but wagering large sums of money on these fights.

While Vick is certainly entitled to the presumption of innocence and will no doubt be represented by a team of skilled lawyers, Emperor Goodell's announced policy has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. He has said it himself -- "It's not enough to avoid simply being found guilty of a crime." And, "Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime."

Is attending a dog-fight per se "conduct detrimental?" What about a cockfight? Setting up an offshore tax ring to avoid autograph royalties? How many games should you get for employing an illegal nanny from Guatemala? You might even find yourself wondering why in the world should the NFL be in the business of policing its players' off-field conduct and meting out preemptive punishment before the justice system? But that's a silly question. After all, Emperor Goodell is a modern day Solomon, right?

Ultimately in seeking to make poster children of NFL "bad boys" Pacman and Chris Henry, Emperor Goodell used a tank to shoot a butterfly. Instead of solving a problem, the NFL created a mess.

And now whenever player misconduct is alleged the question becomes, when is the NFL going to act? What's going to be even worse is when individual fans start to get upset over perceived unfair punishments doled out by the league because of the drastic impact these punishments can have upon the quality of their own teams. Yep, the greatest threat to NFL parity is NFL punishment.

You thought the NFL Draft was an inexact science, good God, you ain't seen nothing until you've seen the inexact science of legal justice. Already fans and interest groups have come to believe that the NFL itself is a disciplinary arm.

On Friday the NFL received an angry letter from the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals stating, "...there is no record of NFL players ever receiving education from the league on the importance of treating animals humanely." Why should there be a record of the NFL doing this? Has anyone else whose job doesn't involve working with animals been trained on the importance of treating animals humanely? Have pilots, have janitors, have undertakers, have (insert thousands of professions here)? Of course not. Because these professions haven't interjected themselves into the judicial process and become arbiters of right and wrong. But the NFL has. And things are going to get much worse for the league until the NFL alters its disastrous new personal conduct policy.

You know what the real irony of all of this is? The NFL set about implementing a personal conduct policy to preemptively punish players for not living up to an amorphous code of conduct. The idea was that by enacting preemptive punishment the NFL would avoid being tarred by the actions of their individual players.

Instead of freeing itself from the stain of those players' actions, however, the NFL has now more fully associated itself with the players and their actions. Before Emperor Goodell decided that he was going to fashion his own justice system for players, the NFL wasn't dragged into every allegation of player misconduct and asked to justify its response. Now, guess what, they are.

And now every time an NFL player is alleged to have done something wrong, the emperor has to rule. Basing all of his rulings on a flawed and overly expansive preemptive punishment. Emperor Goodell is about to find out, if he hasn't already, that old legal maxim: Tough cases make bad law.
 

AdamJT13

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I guess Clay Travis has never heard of the NFL's Collective Bargaining Agreement, let alone read it.
 

Holloway805

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AdamJT13;1513875 said:
I guess Clay Travis has never heard of the NFL's Collective Bargaining Agreement, let alone read it.
Adam-- you nailed it. Not only are there clauses in the general agreement on personal conduct, but in also in the individual contracts. Having the players be accountable on paper is nothing new. Goodell is just enforcing it now. I am behind him 100% because I have 2 boys, 12 and 9, who pay attention to the NFL alot closer than you might think.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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AdamJT13;1513875 said:
I guess Clay Travis has never heard of the NFL's Collective Bargaining Agreement, let alone read it.

i dont see how you come to that conclusion. did you even read the article?

He is fully cognizant of the powers that these changes grant to the commisioner. His issue is the commisioner using power which he doesnt deny the CBA grants him to pass down judgement before due process takes place.

He talks of scenarios where a player is accused of something the commisioner acts and then the player is later exonerated. He doesnt deny that the commisioner can do that but rather when this happens it is going to be a mess.

Im still not sure whther federal labor law allows this but I have a feeling that were probably going to find out very soon.
 

burmafrd

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Morons supporting morons. Its NOTICEABLE that none of these articles have ANY quotes at all from LAWYERS saying that Pacman had a case. Interesting, isn't it? And THIS idiot was one of the morons that whined about coming down hard on Pacman and company from day one. He is not a lawyer, or even someone with any real intelligence- just an agenda of some weird kind.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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burmafrd;1513899 said:
Morons supporting morons. Its NOTICEABLE that none of these articles have ANY quotes at all from LAWYERS saying that Pacman had a case. Interesting, isn't it? And THIS idiot was one of the morons that whined about coming down hard on Pacman and company from day one. He is not a lawyer, or even someone with any real intelligence- just an agenda of some weird kind.

he actually has a law degree. in the second paragraph he talks about stuff he learned in law school.
 

burmafrd

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He was in law school- so what? When - what did he specialize in? Has he ever passed the bar? has he ever practiced? What area did he practice in if he did so? So what he went to law school- then why does he not have labor lawyers quoted? He should have learned how to support a legal arguement in law school. ANd my point still stands- in all the articles chastizing Goodell- I have not read ONE with any lawyer in labor law QUOTED as supporting the idea that Goodell cannot do this. I have yet to see ONE SINGLE LAWYER quoted in any article. Fuzzy, think about that.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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burmafrd;1513905 said:
He was in law school- so what? When - what did he specialize in? Has he ever passed the bar? has he ever practiced? What area did he practice in if he did so? So what he went to law school- then why does he not have labor lawyers quoted? He should have learned how to support a legal arguement in law school. ANd my point still stands- in all the articles chastizing Goodell- I have not read ONE with any lawyer in labor law QUOTED as supporting the idea that Goodell cannot do this. I have yet to see ONE SINGLE LAWYER quoted in any article. Fuzzy, think about that.

do you have law degree or anything that would make you able to judge the merits of his legal opinion. the guy is a lawyer burm and has been practicing for awhile.
 

Dcz84

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burmafrd;1513905 said:
He was in law school- so what? When - what did he specialize in? Has he ever passed the bar? has he ever practiced? What area did he practice in if he did so? So what he went to law school- then why does he not have labor lawyers quoted? He should have learned how to support a legal arguement in law school. ANd my point still stands- in all the articles chastizing Goodell- I have not read ONE with any lawyer in labor law QUOTED as supporting the idea that Goodell cannot do this. I have yet to see ONE SINGLE LAWYER quoted in any article. Fuzzy, think about that.
Some how i dont think he has a right Goodell to inforce any kind of labor law it should be the state in which the said person is employed,if im employed in NY NY would hear my case not some guy from god know's where,Funnest thing would be if this crack pot Goodell ever got in trouble.Also is Pacman intitled to unemployment if so who would hear his case.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Dcz84;1513917 said:
Some how i dont think he has a right Goodell to inforce any kind of labor law it should be the state in which the said person is employed,if im employed in NY NY would hear my case not some guy from god know's where,Funnest thing would be if this crack pot Goodell ever got in trouble.Also is Pacman intitled to unemployment if so who would hear his case.

it would be a federal issue.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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Boo-Hoo

Some of these guys act like punks and get in trouble yet before would just get a slap on the wrist.

I think it is about time the NFL started playing hardball with these types of antics instead of being hypocrites and letting them get away with slaps on the wrists.
 

sago1

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I'm squarely behind Goodell. Working for the NFL is a privilege not a right. Goodell is the head of a company called the NFL which has a board of directors (32 teams owners) and a players union (NFLPA) and their conduct is governed by the CBA. When an employee consistently brings embarrassment to his company (NFL), this company has a right to punish him whether or not this player's conduct causes him to be convicted of a crime. If the employee doesn't like the rules, he can quit and go work for another company which allows him to do anything he wants; i.e., CFL, Arena League, etc. The fact that none of these companies pay what the NFL pays is irrelevent.

No company over time can tolerant the embarrassment a player like Pacman causes them. If no one knows where Pacman works, maybe the company wouldn't care cause it would not hurt their business, but we live in a world where his place of employment is quickly and publicly identified.

I've read on this board that some of you believe your employers don't care. I suggest anyone who believes that (and currently holds a job but isn't the owner of that company) should just go out an do a few of the things Pacman and Johnson have done, etc (but make sure your transgressions are reported in bold letters in the press/on tv, etc.) and just see how long it takes before you get a call from your boss. I don't care if you work for the NFL, the U.S. Government, Ford, Boeing, Walmart, a little grocery store, repair shop, etc. None of them can long stand the embrassment your actions cause them & the possibility it will hurt them where it counts -- in the pocket.

As for the player suing the NFL, I'd love to see that. Let me see. The player would probably claim the NFL had no right to suspend him since he had never been convicted of a crime & they denying him the right to earn a living. So they denying him rights he has under the Constitution, etc. The NFL would simply respond that the player is an employee and a company has the right to suspend or even fire any employee who consistently brings embarrassment to his employer by his off field actions. They will also claim they provide a product which they hope people will buy (or watch in this case). Therefore, the player's numerous notorious off field activities affect his work place and those around him. Since it's a free company, the player can seek a job with another football entity, he has no right to a job in the NFL if he refuses/cannot follow the terms of their signed agreement/contract.

Mr. Pacman will spend millions but lose his case. No one wants to see the NFL's huge following decrease which in turn will ensure the tv networks cut back on broadcasting NFL games. When that happens, player salaries will decrease significantly. The last time the NFL needs is to become another thug league.
 

Chuck 54

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I think most fans applaud the commish and his attempt to bring some sanity to the league and some control to the young men who play in it.

It's time for athletes to realize that they have an employer who has a right to expect a certain type of behavior from its employees, just like our own employers.

As a sidenote, my step-son has a masters degree in Economics and his first job here in Richmond, VA. I was surprised when one of his colleagues was fired when the employer learned that he had a tattoo. I asked my sister, who works for Hutton and Williams law firm, and while I forgot what she called our state (Will to work or Right to Work, something), she said that in VA you can be fired without being given a reason or for any reason...surprised me because of all the crap you see in movies about people bringing lawsuits against former employers.
 

montgod

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You know, I also had thought about this as I saw Goodell handing down suspensions and things of that sort.

I knew the Players Union was going to fight this and have a pretty good case. I will be very interested in seeing what the outcome is of Pacman's appeal.

Even though I have no problem with Goodell handing down suspensions for these obvious players who make the NFL look bad, I just don't see how they can be witheld with those players who haven't been convicted of a crime.

Not only that, but without knowing the specifics of the NFL guidelines/bylaws, I also was curious to know how things would transpire with some of these new rules applying to players whose illegal actions occured before these changes took place.

Who knows. I am no lawyer... so I will just wait and see quietly hoping that punks like Pacman are penalized for their unprofessional and bad behavior.
 

Chuck 54

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montgod;1513931 said:
You know, I also had thought about this as I saw Goodell handing down suspensions and things of that sort.

I knew the Players Union was going to fight this and have a pretty good case. I will be very interested in seeing what the outcome is of Pacman's appeal.

Even though I have no problem with Goodell handing down suspensions for these obvious players who make the NFL look bad, I just don't see how they can be witheld with those players who haven't been convicted of a crime.

Who knows. I am no lawyer... so I will just wait and see quietly hoping that punks like Pacman are penalized for their unprofessional and bad behavior.

Players have often been suspended without pay by their teams for "conduct detrimental" just for criticizing the owner or coach or not showing up for work....those aren't crimes either.

I don't think anyone has been suspended yet whose behavior hasn't been detrimental to the league...you don't have to be convicted of a crime.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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montgod;1513931 said:
You know, I also had thought about this as I saw Goodell handing down suspensions and things of that sort.

I knew the Players Union was going to fight this and have a pretty good case. I will be very interested in seeing what the outcome is of Pacman's appeal.

Even though I have no problem with Goodell handing down suspensions for these obvious players who make the NFL look bad, I just don't see how they can be witheld with those players who haven't been convicted of a crime.

Not only that, but without knowing the specifics of the NFL guidelines/bylaws, I also was curious to know how things would transpire with some of these new rules applying to players whose illegal actions occured before these changes took place.

Who knows. I am no lawyer... so I will just wait and see quietly hoping that punks like Pacman are penalized for their unprofessional and bad behavior.

Players can be suspended for various things without having committed a crime.

It has happened many times in the league over the years.

A player spits on another, they get suspended sometimes. Yet no formal chargers were filed in a criminal action.

A person at a job is always late to work, they know they should not be late, but continue to do so. They have been told not to be late, they continue to do so.
They have committed no crime, just have been late to work. They get fired by the employer.
Being suspended is not even being fired.

But because these athletes have been getting away with things, probably since being children, due to their athletic talents it does not mean they should not face penalties for their actions or how they make their employers look.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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burmafrd;1513905 said:
He was in law school- so what? When - what did he specialize in? Has he ever passed the bar? has he ever practiced? What area did he practice in if he did so? So what he went to law school- then why does he not have labor lawyers quoted? He should have learned how to support a legal arguement in law school. ANd my point still stands- in all the articles chastizing Goodell- I have not read ONE with any lawyer in labor law QUOTED as supporting the idea that Goodell cannot do this. I have yet to see ONE SINGLE LAWYER quoted in any article. Fuzzy, think about that.

again on page 3 of the pacman thread there are quotes from lawyers. those werent good enough.

according to this guys bio he is a practicing lawyer as well as a writer.

what legal expertise do you bring? Do you know what the Taft-Hartley Act or the landrum-Griffin Act are?
 

burmafrd

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No, those were not good enough. More hired guns with an agenda. I want to see uninvolved lawyers with expertise in labor law.
 

Trendnet

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FuzzyLumpkins;1513885 said:
He talks of scenarios where a player is accused of something the commisioner acts and then the player is later exonerated. He doesnt deny that the commisioner can do that but rather when this happens it is going to be a mess.

Im still not sure whther federal labor law allows this but I have a feeling that were probably going to find out very soon.

I think this sums it up perfectly.

This is a slippery slope Goodell is traveling down.

Week 10. Terry Glenn gets arrested for domestic violence. Based on his past history of trouble (specifically with the Patriots), Goodell decides after a couple of weeks, to hand out a 4 game suspension. The 'Boys record sits at 8-4 at the time of the suspension.

Everyone applauds the decision, "Get those thugs off our team" they yell.

Without Glenn, the Cowboys offense struggles, they go 1-3 the last 4 games of the season to finish at 9-7 and miss the playoffs.

After week 17, Glenn is completely exonerated. His spouse is charged with filing a false police report. Glenn did not do the crime he was accused of.

Think anyone here will ever agree with Goodell's decision?

Getting suspended for missing practice is one thing... getting suspended for a simple accusation is another.
 

justbob

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BrAinPaiNt;1513924 said:
Boo-Hoo

Some of these guys act like punks and get in trouble yet before would just get a slap on the wrist.

I think it is about time the NFL started playing hardball with these types of antics instead of being hypocrites and letting them get away with slaps on the wrists.

Amen and Amen --Stay tough and it will trickle down to the College and high school ranks. No matter how good you are, you have to live like the rest of us do ---or be fired (OR NOT DRAFTED)like the rest of us.
 
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