Charting the run on linemen

[Galian Beast]

This is according to CBS' rankings

Fisher was ranked 2nd, he went 1st
Joekel was ranked 1st, he went 2nd
Lane Johnson was ranked 4th, he went 4th
Jonathan Cooper was ranked 11th, he went 7th
Warmack was ranked 8th, he goes 10th
Fluker was ranked 12th, he goes 11th
--------------------------------------------------------
These were all the top ranked linemen in the draft
--------------------------------------------------------

The Cowboys pick is at 18th, they aren't going to draft Pugh or Long or Frederick at 18th. They don't want a 1 technique defensive tackle, they aren't enamored with the wide receivers, and they don't want to draft Eric Reid at 18. CBS has Reid ranked 32nd. Perhaps they thought he would still be there, and didn't realize that the 49ers would reach so far to get him.


Pugh was ranked 45th, he goes 19th
Kyle Long was ranked 56th, he goes 20th

The Cowboys are at 31st, so they're sitting at 31, and offensive linemen are flying off the board. They don't pick again until 47. Frederick is ranked 53 by CBS. Pugh jumped 26 spots, and Long jumped 36 spots. Is it unreasonable to conclude that Frederick might jump 7 spots?

The Cowboys were 31st in rushing yards last year, and the very nimble Romo was the 6th most sacked quarterback in the NFL. Do you risk not getting Frederick and possibly not even some other linemen? Who they probably had much lower grades on?


I think when you put together the reality, you see that we made the right choice. Would it have been nicer to get more value out of the trade? Obviously, but you only have the options that you have.

These are the players that we passed on

Eric Reid, FS, LSU -- Might not have expected to go so early.
Pugh, OT, Syracuse -- Run on offensive linemen.
Kyle Long, OT, Oregon -- See Pugh
Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame -- Simply no way in my mind do we draft a TE in the first. Especially since we have Hanna that we want to develop. Just doesn't make sense.
Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington -- Where would we play him? Play Carr at Safety?
Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida -- 1 technique defensive tackle
Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State -- I don't think we invest a first in a defensive end of that caliber. Other defensive ends just as good still in the draft.
Xavier Rhodes, CB, Florida State -- See Trufant
Datone Jones, DE, UCLA -- Not at all a great pass rusher, probably looking like a 3-4 defensive end
DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson -- I don't think we were drafting a WR here either, unless it was someone like Austin.
Sylvester Williams, DT, North Carolina -- See Floyd
Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee -- See Hopkins
Alec Ogletree, ILB, Georgia -- Do I have to say anything?
Travis Frederick, C, Wisconsin -- See Pugh
Matt Elam, SS, Florida -- Had the option of drafting him, secured the center instead.

Short of trading up to get Cooper, I don't know what you wanted Jerry to do. People who thought that we should draft defensive tackles, were simply not putting two and two together. Most people on this board would have said Eric Reid at 18 would be a reach. And once that run on linemen happened, we were pegged.

 

[Beast_from_East]

This is according to CBS' rankings

Fisher was ranked 2nd, he went 1st
Joekel was ranked 1st, he went 2nd
Lane Johnson was ranked 4th, he went 4th
Jonathan Cooper was ranked 11th, he went 7th
Warmack was ranked 8th, he goes 10th
Fluker was ranked 12th, he goes 11th
--------------------------------------------------------
These were all the top ranked linemen in the draft
--------------------------------------------------------

The Cowboys pick is at 18th, they aren't going to draft Pugh or Long or Frederick at 18th. They don't want a 1 technique defensive tackle, they aren't enamored with the wide receivers, and they don't want to draft Eric Reid at 18. CBS has Reid ranked 32nd. Perhaps they thought he would still be there, and didn't realize that the 49ers would reach so far to get him.


Pugh was ranked 45th, he goes 19th
Kyle Long was ranked 56th, he goes 20th

The Cowboys are at 31st, so they're sitting at 31, and offensive linemen are flying off the board. They don't pick again until 47. Frederick is ranked 53 by CBS. Pugh jumped 26 spots, and Long jumped 36 spots. Is it unreasonable to conclude that Frederick might jump 7 spots?

The Cowboys were 31st in rushing yards last year, and the very nimble Romo was the 6th most sacked quarterback in the NFL. Do you risk not getting Frederick and possibly not even some other linemen? Who they probably had much lower grades on?


I think when you put together the reality, you see that we made the right choice. Would it have been nicer to get more value out of the trade? Obviously, but you only have the options that you have.

These are the players that we passed on

Eric Reid, FS, LSU -- Might not have expected to go so early.
Pugh, OT, Syracuse -- Run on offensive linemen.
Kyle Long, OT, Oregon -- See Pugh
Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame -- Simply no way in my mind do we draft a TE in the first. Especially since we have Hanna that we want to develop. Just doesn't make sense.
Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington -- Where would we play him? Play Carr at Safety?
Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida -- 1 technique defensive tackle
Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State -- I don't think we invest a first in a defensive end of that caliber. Other defensive ends just as good still in the draft.
Xavier Rhodes, CB, Florida State -- See Trufant
Datone Jones, DE, UCLA -- Not at all a great pass rusher, probably looking like a 3-4 defensive end
DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson -- I don't think we were drafting a WR here either, unless it was someone like Austin.
Sylvester Williams, DT, North Carolina -- See Floyd
Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee -- See Hopkins
Alec Ogletree, ILB, Georgia -- Do I have to say anything?
Travis Frederick, C, Wisconsin -- See Pugh
Matt Elam, SS, Florida -- Had the option of drafting him, secured the center instead.

Short of trading up to get Cooper, I don't know what you wanted Jerry to do. People who thought that we should draft defensive tackles, were simply not putting two and two together. Most people on this board would have said Eric Reid at 18 would be a reach. And once that run on linemen happened, we were pegged.

Good analysis.................bottom line is we picked a guy about 10 spots early, not the end of the world. Clearly they were scared he was not going to be there at 47 and the way o-line was flying off the board I can see what they were thinking.

Once Vaccaro went at 15, there was basically nobody left we wanted at 18.

 

[Padd]

Great analysis.

 

[wick]

It's not about the player. It's about the value. You simply cannot turn the 18th pick into the 56th rated player and the 74th choice. That's how you lose ground in the NFL. If you are so boxed in by personnel decisions outside of the draft that you are compelled to take an offensive lineman, damn the torpedoes, then that's still on you as a front office failing. Dallas bungled the first round of this draft, without question.

 

[CashMan]

If this guy plays G, then you took the #4-5 rated guard. If Cooper, Warmack, Pugh, and Long are all considered guys who play Guard. So you reach a tad, if you wanna say 10 spots..ok, but still you get the #5 G on the board vs the #1 DT at 18.

I am not a scout or GM, but I would rather have the #1 rated position other than P or K at a need spot, than a #5 ranked guy at another need spot.

 

[hendog]

If this guy plays G, then you took the #4-5 rated guard. If Cooper, Warmack, Pugh, and Long are all considered guys who play Guard. So you reach a tad, if you wanna say 10 spots..ok, but still you get the #5 G on the board vs the #1 DT at 18.

I am not a scout or GM, but I would rather have the #1 rated position other than P or K at a need spot, than a #5 ranked guy at another need spot.

Floyd obviously was not the #1 ranked DT by any FO.

 

[Kevinicus]

It's not about the player. It's about the value. You simply cannot turn the 18th pick into the 56th rated player and the 74th choice. That's how you lose ground in the NFL. If you are so boxed in by personnel decisions outside of the draft that you are compelled to take an offensive lineman, damn the torpedoes, then that's still on you as a front office failing. Dallas bungled the first round of this draft, without question.

Stop looking at the value of the picks and start focusing on the value of the players, that's what matters. Doesn't matter if you keep your high value 18 pick if you can't get a player with a significantly higher value on the field.

 

[egn22]

This is according to CBS' rankings

Fisher was ranked 2nd, he went 1st
Joekel was ranked 1st, he went 2nd
Lane Johnson was ranked 4th, he went 4th
Jonathan Cooper was ranked 11th, he went 7th
Warmack was ranked 8th, he goes 10th
Fluker was ranked 12th, he goes 11th
--------------------------------------------------------
These were all the top ranked linemen in the draft
--------------------------------------------------------

The Cowboys pick is at 18th, they aren't going to draft Pugh or Long or Frederick at 18th. They don't want a 1 technique defensive tackle, they aren't enamored with the wide receivers, and they don't want to draft Eric Reid at 18. CBS has Reid ranked 32nd. Perhaps they thought he would still be there, and didn't realize that the 49ers would reach so far to get him.


Pugh was ranked 45th, he goes 19th
Kyle Long was ranked 56th, he goes 20th

The Cowboys are at 31st, so they're sitting at 31, and offensive linemen are flying off the board. They don't pick again until 47. Frederick is ranked 53 by CBS. Pugh jumped 26 spots, and Long jumped 36 spots. Is it unreasonable to conclude that Frederick might jump 7 spots?

The Cowboys were 31st in rushing yards last year, and the very nimble Romo was the 6th most sacked quarterback in the NFL. Do you risk not getting Frederick and possibly not even some other linemen? Who they probably had much lower grades on?


I think when you put together the reality, you see that we made the right choice. Would it have been nicer to get more value out of the trade? Obviously, but you only have the options that you have.

These are the players that we passed on

Eric Reid, FS, LSU -- Might not have expected to go so early.
Pugh, OT, Syracuse -- Run on offensive linemen.
Kyle Long, OT, Oregon -- See Pugh
Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame -- Simply no way in my mind do we draft a TE in the first. Especially since we have Hanna that we want to develop. Just doesn't make sense.
Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington -- Where would we play him? Play Carr at Safety?
Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida -- 1 technique defensive tackle
Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State -- I don't think we invest a first in a defensive end of that caliber. Other defensive ends just as good still in the draft.
Xavier Rhodes, CB, Florida State -- See Trufant
Datone Jones, DE, UCLA -- Not at all a great pass rusher, probably looking like a 3-4 defensive end
DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson -- I don't think we were drafting a WR here either, unless it was someone like Austin.
Sylvester Williams, DT, North Carolina -- See Floyd
Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee -- See Hopkins
Alec Ogletree, ILB, Georgia -- Do I have to say anything?
Travis Frederick, C, Wisconsin -- See Pugh
Matt Elam, SS, Florida -- Had the option of drafting him, secured the center instead.

Short of trading up to get Cooper, I don't know what you wanted Jerry to do. People who thought that we should draft defensive tackles, were simply not putting two and two together. Most people on this board would have said Eric Reid at 18 would be a reach. And once that run on linemen happened, we were pegged.

wow. thank you for making me feel better. seriously!

 

[hendog]

This is according to CBS' rankings

Fisher was ranked 2nd, he went 1st
Joekel was ranked 1st, he went 2nd
Lane Johnson was ranked 4th, he went 4th
Jonathan Cooper was ranked 11th, he went 7th
Warmack was ranked 8th, he goes 10th
Fluker was ranked 12th, he goes 11th
--------------------------------------------------------
These were all the top ranked linemen in the draft
--------------------------------------------------------

The Cowboys pick is at 18th, they aren't going to draft Pugh or Long or Frederick at 18th. They don't want a 1 technique defensive tackle, they aren't enamored with the wide receivers, and they don't want to draft Eric Reid at 18. CBS has Reid ranked 32nd. Perhaps they thought he would still be there, and didn't realize that the 49ers would reach so far to get him.


Pugh was ranked 45th, he goes 19th
Kyle Long was ranked 56th, he goes 20th

The Cowboys are at 31st, so they're sitting at 31, and offensive linemen are flying off the board. They don't pick again until 47. Frederick is ranked 53 by CBS. Pugh jumped 26 spots, and Long jumped 36 spots. Is it unreasonable to conclude that Frederick might jump 7 spots?

The Cowboys were 31st in rushing yards last year, and the very nimble Romo was the 6th most sacked quarterback in the NFL. Do you risk not getting Frederick and possibly not even some other linemen? Who they probably had much lower grades on?


I think when you put together the reality, you see that we made the right choice. Would it have been nicer to get more value out of the trade? Obviously, but you only have the options that you have.

These are the players that we passed on

Eric Reid, FS, LSU -- Might not have expected to go so early.
Pugh, OT, Syracuse -- Run on offensive linemen.
Kyle Long, OT, Oregon -- See Pugh
Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame -- Simply no way in my mind do we draft a TE in the first. Especially since we have Hanna that we want to develop. Just doesn't make sense.
Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington -- Where would we play him? Play Carr at Safety?
Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida -- 1 technique defensive tackle
Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State -- I don't think we invest a first in a defensive end of that caliber. Other defensive ends just as good still in the draft.
Xavier Rhodes, CB, Florida State -- See Trufant
Datone Jones, DE, UCLA -- Not at all a great pass rusher, probably looking like a 3-4 defensive end
DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson -- I don't think we were drafting a WR here either, unless it was someone like Austin.
Sylvester Williams, DT, North Carolina -- See Floyd
Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee -- See Hopkins
Alec Ogletree, ILB, Georgia -- Do I have to say anything?
Travis Frederick, C, Wisconsin -- See Pugh
Matt Elam, SS, Florida -- Had the option of drafting him, secured the center instead.

Short of trading up to get Cooper, I don't know what you wanted Jerry to do. People who thought that we should draft defensive tackles, were simply not putting two and two together. Most people on this board would have said Eric Reid at 18 would be a reach. And once that run on linemen happened, we were pegged.

Great post. Sums it up.

 

[burmafrd]

It's not about the player. It's about the value. You simply cannot turn the 18th pick into the 56th rated player and the 74th choice. That's how you lose ground in the NFL. If you are so boxed in by personnel decisions outside of the draft that you are compelled to take an offensive lineman, damn the torpedoes, then that's still on you as a front office failing. Dallas bungled the first round of this draft, without question.

Its about the player. All this whining about value means NOTHING. Its all about getting a guy that can come in and start right away and improve that position.

 

[RSM94]

I've been saying the same thing on other threads, but your analysis is more detailed....well done!! I think the trade down was a good move. Boys filled their most urgent need and picked up an extra 3rd round pick. Good job!! Now they need to go get a good RT and get rid of Free!!

 

[Galian Beast]

I've been saying the same thing on other threads, but your analysis is more detailed....well done!! I think the trade down was a good move. Boys filled their most urgent need and picked up an extra 3rd round pick. Good job!! Now they need to go get a good RT and get rid of Free!!

Don't be angry if we don't get a tackle. There aren't many more tackle options worth drafting. There is possibility of getting a guard, but even then it depends on what falls to us.

 

[honyock]

This is according to CBS' rankings

Fisher was ranked 2nd, he went 1st
Joekel was ranked 1st, he went 2nd
Lane Johnson was ranked 4th, he went 4th
Jonathan Cooper was ranked 11th, he went 7th
Warmack was ranked 8th, he goes 10th
Fluker was ranked 12th, he goes 11th
--------------------------------------------------------
These were all the top ranked linemen in the draft
--------------------------------------------------------

The Cowboys pick is at 18th, they aren't going to draft Pugh or Long or Frederick at 18th. They don't want a 1 technique defensive tackle, they aren't enamored with the wide receivers, and they don't want to draft Eric Reid at 18. CBS has Reid ranked 32nd. Perhaps they thought he would still be there, and didn't realize that the 49ers would reach so far to get him.


Pugh was ranked 45th, he goes 19th
Kyle Long was ranked 56th, he goes 20th

The Cowboys are at 31st, so they're sitting at 31, and offensive linemen are flying off the board. They don't pick again until 47. Frederick is ranked 53 by CBS. Pugh jumped 26 spots, and Long jumped 36 spots. Is it unreasonable to conclude that Frederick might jump 7 spots?

The Cowboys were 31st in rushing yards last year, and the very nimble Romo was the 6th most sacked quarterback in the NFL. Do you risk not getting Frederick and possibly not even some other linemen? Who they probably had much lower grades on?


I think when you put together the reality, you see that we made the right choice. Would it have been nicer to get more value out of the trade? Obviously, but you only have the options that you have.

These are the players that we passed on

Eric Reid, FS, LSU -- Might not have expected to go so early.
Pugh, OT, Syracuse -- Run on offensive linemen.
Kyle Long, OT, Oregon -- See Pugh
Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame -- Simply no way in my mind do we draft a TE in the first. Especially since we have Hanna that we want to develop. Just doesn't make sense.
Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington -- Where would we play him? Play Carr at Safety?
Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida -- 1 technique defensive tackle
Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State -- I don't think we invest a first in a defensive end of that caliber. Other defensive ends just as good still in the draft.
Xavier Rhodes, CB, Florida State -- See Trufant
Datone Jones, DE, UCLA -- Not at all a great pass rusher, probably looking like a 3-4 defensive end
DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson -- I don't think we were drafting a WR here either, unless it was someone like Austin.
Sylvester Williams, DT, North Carolina -- See Floyd
Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee -- See Hopkins
Alec Ogletree, ILB, Georgia -- Do I have to say anything?
Travis Frederick, C, Wisconsin -- See Pugh
Matt Elam, SS, Florida -- Had the option of drafting him, secured the center instead.

Short of trading up to get Cooper, I don't know what you wanted Jerry to do. People who thought that we should draft defensive tackles, were simply not putting two and two together. Most people on this board would have said Eric Reid at 18 would be a reach. And once that run on linemen happened, we were pegged.

Nice job, Galian. The only player I wanted that fell between 18-31 was Williams, and they may just not have had a premium value on him.

I dont' have a huge problem taking a player 10-15 higher than the "experts" have him rated. It's always nice to feel like you got tremendous value or a steal, but it happens too often that you try to get too cute and miss someone you wanted.

 

[fortdick]

It's not about the player. It's about the value......

You are wrong, its is all about the player. Not some arbitrary scoring system. The Cowboys got the best player available to fill the biggest need and saved enough cap money to sign a Winston or Clabo. You don't take a player you don't like just because Mayock has him rated higher than you do and pay him money he is not worth so you can make message board experts happy.

I think that some people are more concerned with their personal player evaluations and mock drafts being wrong than about what is good for the team.

 

[Galian Beast]

You are wrong, its is all about the player. Not some arbitrary scoring system. The Cowboys got the best player available to fill the biggest need and saved enough cap money to sign a Winston or Clabo. You don't take a player you don't like just because Mayock has him rated higher than you do and pay him money he is not worth so you can make message board experts happy.

I think that some people are more concerned with their personal player evaluations and mock drafts being wrong than about what is good for the team.

That is the issue. People "scout" about 15 players, and if we don't end up with one of those players, they are going to be angry. Any player selected that they themselves didn't look up will result in anger.

The reality is that if we wanted to address the offensive line in the draft, and we had to do it. We had to do it there or risk not doing it at all.

 

[fortdick]

That is the issue. People "scout" about 15 players, and if we don't end up with one of those players, they are going to be angry. Any player selected that they themselves didn't look up will result in anger.

The reality is that if we wanted to address the offensive line in the draft, and we had to do it. We had to do it there or risk not doing it at all.

I look at the trade and pick as if we got three players #18. Fredricks, the extra 3rd, and either Winston or Clabo. People forget that we lost 5 million in cap space and have to do some creative stuff to sigh folks. Saving 1.6 million in cap space was a HUGE bonus.

People need to give up the hate they have for Jerry and look at the facts.

 

[Galian Beast]

I look at the trade and pick as if we got three players #18. Fredricks, the extra 3rd, and either Winston or Clabo. People forget that we lost 5 million in cap space and have to do some creative stuff to sigh folks. Saving 1.6 million in cap space was a HUGE bonus.

People need to give up the hate they have for Jerry and look at the facts.

I'm not sure where this 1.5 or 1.6 million figure is coming from. 1st round draft picks don't make that much. And we certainly couldn't have saved that just dropping from 18 to 31.

Are you talking about 1.5 or 1.6 million over the course of the contract?

 

[Miller]

Its about the player. All this whining about value means NOTHING. Its all about getting a guy that can come in and start right away and improve that position.

WRONG! Value and player are tied hand and hand. If that wasn't the case you'd see many more teams in the Top 10 start reaching for 2nd and 3rd round guys because they fit their scheme. But they don't. They go off of their scouts who rate and rank the players....including talent, other players at their position, etc. Frederick was rated lower...2nd to 3rd because of his athletic ability and ability to get to the second level. So all people are trying to say is you could take D-line, Safety, O-line in that same spot on their rank and STILL get him or a similar guy in the next spot. If not and you do trade down you can still trade back up and get him early 2nd. This is where team value comes into play. Awareness of how you rank him and other teams rank. If someone said you can have Floyd and Frederick/other O-linemen similarly ranked, you would do it. I see where you are coming from because the guy can come in and play. But overall you are trying to get more than just one guy to do this and their moves didn't get that accomplished as easily in some people's eyes.