Conner McGovern: Starting LG battle

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by quickccc, Jun 11, 2021.

  1. buybuydandavis

    buybuydandavis Well-Known Member

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    *I* agree with you that McGovern has value at C, but all signs are that Management does not and never has seen it that way. AFAIK, he has yet to be given any real chance at competing for C *despite* us already being well set at G with starters in Williams and Martin. THis year I have heard noise about our *7th* round rookie pick competing for C, but not McGovern.
     
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  2. quickccc

    quickccc Well-Known Member

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    Ron Leary had one single stand out year in 2016, and he hasn’t been a significant player since he left for Denver the following year in 2017. What had he done in Denver before he retired ?

    - Overall he was serviceable and injury prone here in Dallas, prior to his great year in 2016.
    And when he signed on with Denver as a FA, he went right back to being just decent- serviceable and injury prone.
    Even his once thought chronic knee issue that caused him to go undrafted, wasn’t even an issue in Denver as he couldn’t avoid assortment of injuries for much of his career there.

    - Why didn’t Cowboys re-sign Leary to a long term ?
    Apparently they saw him as a decent stop gap type with a history of injuries and medical risks.
    It’s nauseating how many fans here keep wanting to beat that same drum that in pipe dreaming Ron Leary was someone really special, and shame on us for not dishing out (wasting) big contract money to him and letting him go in FA.

    - And BTW, if LG is so much more prominently difficult and you have an elite OG like Martin, then why are you not switching Zack, your best interior player, over to the LG spot?
    .(considered by you as the harder position to play between the two guards)

    - It’s not that it’s technically harder than RG, and per say difficult position, it’s really more the challenge across the line as LG usually take on the Defenses’ best interior pass rush at the 3 tech role.
    But with the way coaches flip flop and move around their best interior pass rush around to not only try to prevent him from being double team but also match him up per mismatches..,, with the way coaches have their stunt and twist their DL around,.. the way we’re seeing their top pass rushing DEs occasionally spot and lineup inside the interior (ala Jason Tuck with Giants. or Marinelli did with Dlaw)
    it's very critical that you have two very capable pass blockers with both interiors, Tall task but that's the presented challenge from defenses.
     
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  3. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    LOL.... My advice, though you didn't ask for it, just invest in a good luffa sponge.

    :laugh:

    How you doing BTW, this morning Corso?
     
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  4. Corso

    Corso Offseason mode... sleepy time

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    Good. Battling my middle rear brake light on one of the cars.
    You can tell tiny people make these things.
     
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  5. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    I think he hasn't had a lot of time to actually show what he can or can't do, to be honest. I mean, people look at it and they just don't realize how important it is to be in camp, to get the coaching at the beginning of the year. Injuries that prevent you from getting time really hurts down the road. Once you get into the season, very difficult to learn anything. Coaches are focused on Game Planning etc. So I honestly don't know that the team has or has not decided what he might be able to do. But when they draft him, I believe the Guard/Center angle was the reasoning behind a lot of why they took him.

    JMO
     
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  6. quickccc

    quickccc Well-Known Member

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    Ron Leary had one single, stand out year in 2016, and he hasn’t been a significant player since he left for Denver the following year in 2017.
    What had he ever done in Denver before he retired ?

    - Leary was serviceable at best and injury prone here in Dallas, prior to his great year in 2016.
    And he went right back to being just decent- serviceable and injury prone when he went to Denver.
    Even his once thought chronic knee issue that caused him to go undrafted, wasn’t even an issue in Denver as he couldn’t avoid assortment of injuries for much of his career there.

    - Why didn’t Cowboys re-sign Leary to a long term ?
    Apparently they saw him as a decent stop gap type with a history of injuries and medical risks.
    It’s utterly puzzling how many fans here keep wanting to beat the drum that in Ron Leary we had someone really special, and shame on us for not dishing out big contract money
    to him and letting him go.

    - BTW, if LG is so much more prominently difficult and you have an elite OG like Martin, then why are you not switching Zack, your best interior player, over to the LG spot? .(considered by you as the harder position to play between the two guards)

    - It’s not that LG is technically harder than RG, per say difficult position, it’s really more the challenge across the line as LG usually take on the Defenses’ best interior pass rush at the 3 tech DT role.
    But with the way coaches flip flop and move around their best interior pass rush around,, with the way coaches have their stunt and twist their DL around, the way we’re seeing
    their top rushing DEs occasionally spot and lineup inside the interior (ala Jason Tuck with Giants. or Marinelli did with Dlaw)
     
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    Again, not true. LG is more difficult because in a traditional Offense, that's the Guard that pulls. So he has to be mobile, he has to be able to hit moving targets, get to the second level and he also has to be able to stand up against bigger players as well. That's why LG is tougher. You don't just play the more physical position of RG so typically, the LG is smaller, more mobile, but expected to be strong enough to still handle the inside run game and match up against bigger, stronger players. RG, traditionally is bigger and stronger and is not expected to do as much pulling. That guy is usually the bigger and stronger of the two Guards.

    Now, as to why the Cowboys decided to keep Martin at RG, that's anybody's guess. He could have played any position. My guess is that they put Martin at RG because we had Smitty at LT and he was still at the top of his game. We needed stability on the right side of the OL. I mean, in 2013, we had Leary at the LG spot and we were starting Bernadeau and Free on the right side. That's probably why he ended up at RG, right there.
     
    jnday likes this.
  8. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    You bought a Lilliputian car?
     
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  9. quickccc

    quickccc Well-Known Member

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    LOL .. Oh my good Laawrd, dude .. what ancient 60’s AFL level of football mind are you even dreaming about ? :lmao:
    Are you living in just your own traditions ?

    Every single, physical level element that you are trying to describe as what a LG should be ,…. is exactly what Zack Martin has done since he’s been in NFL – mobile, pulling, hit moving targets, 2nd level of defenders, standing up vs bigger players .. and he’s a RG at that !

    You’d like to have both OGs on both sides, that can fit the ideal physical bill for such task and duties, but it’s not like they are always just falling off apple trees.
    Ironically OG is exactly what the Cowboys had in mind, when they very luckily signed Lael Collins as a vastly surprising undrafted rookie FA. (and well most of us all know that story)
    They had no intentions of him playing outside at OT, because of what they deemed as Not prototypical-ideal arm length.
    But the heir apparent for Doug Free; Chaz Green failure forced that plan outside at RT, made it permanent, and it's been a fixture since.

    And Tyron playing at LT, has nuthin' to do with Zack playing RG, totally apples and oranges.
    But I guess this is where you go right back to your usual Not trues again, eh ?
    :muttley:
     
  10. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    Cooper was barely average, but you have a point about Leary. I prefer the huge, mean, power linemen over the smaller finesse type of linemen. I think most Cowboy fans have got used to having those road graders up front and players like Williams are not that impressive when watching and comparing their play.
     
  11. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    Come on man every OL drafted gets compared to either Erik Williams, Tunei, Larry Allen, or Stepnoski. Its great to have high expectations, and it is a credit to the FO that they have been able to get talents like Martin, Collins, Frederick, so what if Conner Williams is a step below them, a step or two below those guys is very good still. IF he gets outplayed I have no issues replacing him. You have two very large contracts on the OL. That is the one place that if they let things slide it is not necessarily a bad thing. Having a 2-3 studs and 2-3 very good is the ideal situation you churn the very good in hopes when the studs start declining you can start transitioning or if the very good want frontline money you can replace them with guys on rookie deals.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  12. Plankton

    Plankton Well-Known Member

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    It takes a big man to cry.

    It takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

    -
    Deep Thoughts, with Jack Handey
     
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  13. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    OK well, this conversation is over. It's OK that you are OK with acting a fool, for and by yourself. It's not OK that you are wasting my time, while you do it. Look, I get it, you don't know what you are talking about. You think that trying to throw shade by interjecting age will somehow help you. It won't. Experience is nothing to be ashamed of and it can't be substituted for. In future, just try to learn, don't try to teach. You can bullshyt your way through many things, I'm sure, but this discussion isn't one of them. Good luck to you and remember, stop arguing, learn what you don't know and try to be appreciative of that.
     
    jnday likes this.
  14. McKDaddy

    McKDaddy Well-Known Member

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    You realize McG did play last year right? Started 8 games. There is "something" to evaluate. I'm not anointing him, but I did see development in those 8 games that makes me think he could be a better G than C Will.
     
  15. charron

    charron Well-Known Member

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    yea like i said he wasn't better than williams. we know that cause we saw him play. we also know he can not stay healthy so far in his short career and that is part of why williams is better as well.
     
  16. McKDaddy

    McKDaddy Well-Known Member

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    at playing guard in the NFL? goodness. don't even know how to process that.
     
  17. McKDaddy

    McKDaddy Well-Known Member

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    guy had one injury, its not a career defining trend.
    if you believe Williams is better that's your point of view.
    McGovern seemed to be better at holding his ground. that's a potential improvement in my opinion.
     
  18. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    Go watch some film. Might help.
     
  19. charron

    charron Well-Known Member

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    PFF graded williams better overall. mcGovern did hold an edge in the run game but was pretty bad in pass protect.
     
  20. Tussinman

    Tussinman Well-Known Member

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    To be fair Williams isn't exactly the walking example of health. He's started 70% of the snaps 1 time in the last 4 years
    Agreed that he's good not great but not buying "hardly misses any snaps". He had 4 knee surgeries in a 3 year span and has only started 70% of the snaps once in the last 4 years.

    To be that injury prone at such a young age is concerning
     

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