Conner McGovern: Starting LG battle

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by quickccc, Jun 11, 2021.

  1. charron

    charron Well-Known Member

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    I am unaware of 4 surgeries but knew about the torn acl in 2019. But he's only been in the league 3 years unless your going back to his college days?

    Williams missed 3 games in 2018, 5 games in 2019, 0 games in 2020
    McGovern has missed 16 games in 2019, 2 games in 2020.
     
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  2. McKDaddy

    McKDaddy Well-Known Member

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    I've watched it all. Gotta understand what you are looking at. Saying CWill is much better than Leary tells me you don't.
     
  3. McKDaddy

    McKDaddy Well-Known Member

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    he improved dramatically in pass pro by the end of the year, imo. that's all I'm saying is that a guy who has small sample size was showing that he might be able to do some things better than a guy who's had 3 years. gives me some hope that he might be an upgrade.
     
  4. charron

    charron Well-Known Member

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    Sure there's hope but Williams graded out 16th at left guard last year so that would be a huge jump for McGovern to go from not able to beat Williams out to better. The hype for backups is way to big. Just like the anae annointing thread.
     
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  5. buybuydandavis

    buybuydandavis Well-Known Member

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    La'el made his move to RT permanent by being a damn good RT. The Cowboys were just wrong about his arm length being a fundamental limit to what La'el could do at T.

    I suspect the same is true of Williams at T, but that will probably never be put to the test.
     
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  6. buybuydandavis

    buybuydandavis Well-Known Member

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    Anchoring is the weakest part of Williams' game, and the strongest for McGovern. Now compare every other facet of G play. Williams wins everything else but drive blocking.
     
  7. DuncanIso

    DuncanIso Well-Known Member

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    I think knee braces should be mandatory for the OL.
     
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  8. DuncanIso

    DuncanIso Well-Known Member

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    not a Philbin fan.

    he got the job because he is big buddies with Mike.

    just like Nolan.
     
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  9. McKDaddy

    McKDaddy Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree with this but he's should be better given his time on the job.

    I don't dislike Williams just think he is a marginal starter at G. Just doesn't seem to fit his natural abilities.
     
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  10. blueblood70

    blueblood70 Well-Known Member

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    shattered that narrative LOL those want a more reliable guy in CM and TRY hard tpo use the 8 games over 3 years and had a 100% healthy year as last year and the other guy 16 games and hasn't started a single full season let alone a game or 2..

    always the backup pet cat..

    reminds me of those wanted Doug Free gone for tears then after he left they saw the grass wasn't greener..Free was very good player like Cwill , PB AP NO but fans need to stop and realize you cant have that at all 5 spots..
     
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  11. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    What makes you think he hasn't gotten better? He has, he's gotten much better technically, which is why he still wins the large majority of those battles. He's just never going to be able to get stronger then power players. That's not who he is but then again, those guys are never ever going to get out on the second level and be able to target guys or get down the line to get a trap block in time etc.

    I think it really comes down to what you want out of your scheme. Do you want a Guard who is mobile and can execute those kinds of blocks within your offense or do you want a guy who can't but will be able to play in more of a power blocking scheme? I mean, it would be great to have a guy who could do both but can we really afford to pay another Martin on the OL?
     
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  12. McKDaddy

    McKDaddy Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't saying CWill hasn't gotten better, I was saying he should be better than McGovern considering the amount of playing time they have gotten respectively. (response to buybuyanddavis comment)

    For me, the two primary assignments for a Guard are 1) be able to anchor down & not get pushed back in pass pro & 2) be able to get some push in the run game. Those are the two things he struggles most with. Those tend to get plays blown up before they have a chance. If McG can give us that, I think our line would be much better.

    I believe he should be allowed to compete at T. See what he can do there and, in the meantime, use him as an on the move blocker in jumbo packages. He does move well & I would like to see what he could bring to the table before his contract is up.
     
  13. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    OK, what makes you think he's not better then McGovern? I certainly think he is, based on what I've seen. McGovern hasn't show that he is capable of playing LG at a higher level.

    I understand you have these two "Primary Assignments" for Guards but those two things may not be what is required of each Guard, depending on the scheme. What you point out here is all related to the run game. I mean, that's fine but, understand that there is more to the run game then just power football. In fact, we don't really run a lot of power sets anymore. We do more trapping and pulling then we do Power ISO. Add that to the fact that this team passes the ball at about 61% of the time. Williams is much better in pass protection and so, this allows him to grade out better overall. Williams is actually pretty valuable, in terms of what this Offense likes to do.

    If he is our best LG, then he's our best LG. I never thought he should have been a Guard in the first place but that's what he was made into. It's not really a great idea to now try and turn him into a tackle IMO. It does not look as if we are going to move off of Smitty anytime soon. Collins is the RT so the only other option for Williams would be swing. How would that make any sense at all? You are going to move your starting LG, the best LG option we have to Swing Tackle and start a guy who hasn't proven he can be a better starter? Are we then going to change our Offense to accommodate McGovern and force everybody else to make adjustments just so that we can start McGovern, turn into a power run team?

    What will Williams do if you move him to Tackle? Will he just be OK with playing Swing Tackle and being replaced as a starter or will he leave and sign elsewhere next season? I'm pretty sure he would be out the door so while I understand the thought process of playing Williams at Tackle, at this point you are basically forcing him out the door if you do that and for better or worse, going with McGovern as the starter. That, to me, does not sound wise. I just think we have to adjust our expectations on what the Offense is really looking for. They are not looking for Williams to be Larry Allen. They are looking for Williams to be John Hannah or Gene Upshaw.

    All of this, I suspect, is irrelevant. I think Williams will be leaving in FA next year IMO. I don't think the team is going to pay him and if that's the case, then McGovern will likely end up being the starter in 22 but, I don't believe it will be because he is better. I think it will be because he will be the best option on the roster, once Williams eventually leaves. That's going to force a change in our scheme for sure because McGovern can't do the things Williams can do, as consistently. At least, he hasn't shown the ability to do so, to this point. So I would not be surprised to actually see McGovern get more playing time, after 8 or 10 games if we are not in the hunt. If we are, then Williams probably stays in place as starter and McGovern gets his chance to show what he can do after Williams leaves.

    JMO
     
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  14. McKDaddy

    McKDaddy Well-Known Member

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    To be clear, I want the best 5 on the field. Not suggesting we move anyone just to accommodate. That's the kind of bullcrap they did putting Lael at G just due to his pedigree when Leary was playing well. McG was looking pretty good in both phases by the end of the season IMO. Remember this will be third year of his rookie contract. Need to find out what you have in him as well.

    I look at it more as CWill has played in 40 games, started 37 over three years (plus 2 post season games). We know what we have in him as a G. I agree he will likely leave as a FA unless something shifts the scales in his favor. If I'm a front office, I don't want to re-sign him as a starting G. I do want to see if he has any chance of being a T while still under contract. Just because Tyron wants to be able to play doesn't mean he will be able to. If CWill shows any promise as a T, you would at least have more information as to his worth on a new contract and an option to put him at RT and let Lael take over at his natural LT position if situation arose.
     
  15. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    Well, I heard you on the tackle thing but how does that actually happen? I mean, you can't see what you have unless you demote him. He's not going to stay if you do that. So basically, you have Williams, who is better then McGovern. You say you want the best 5, well, Williams is the best LG we have so why do you want to see him at Tackle? That doesn't make sense. You want to take the best LG we have, and it's not close here on the difference, and see if you can waste the last year we have with him sitting on the bench?

    Why? How does that make sense?
     
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  16. McKDaddy

    McKDaddy Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that he is the best LG. If he is, sure he plays this year but that tells me I'm looking to move on from all the G's after this year because I see him as the weak link on the line. If they can't beat him out, I've got to go G shopping for 2022 starter.

    If he can possibly be a good T, that has value & I am less willing to let walk out the door. This is your last camp to get him some reps & evaluate. I'm trying to give the player the opportunity to change my mind. Right now, I know I'm not offering him a "market" contract as a G next offseason.
     
  17. buybuydandavis

    buybuydandavis Well-Known Member

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    Interesting idea. I wonder what the downsides are to wearing them.

    I remember after Romo had the broken ribs, and played with some body armor for a few games after, thinking that he should just always wear that.
     
  18. buybuydandavis

    buybuydandavis Well-Known Member

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    Williams with cross training at T is probably our best backup T, and McGovern could backfill for him at LG. Gets our best 5 players ere in case of a T injury. Both of those guys are better players than Knight and Steele.

    Still probably worth it for this season, but would have been much better if they had been doing it all along to preserve and develop his LT play from college. Probably Dak would have been spared the Atlanta sackfest that set back his development.
     
  19. buybuydandavis

    buybuydandavis Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I assume McGovern keeps improving, but the arrow is probably still up for Williams as well. His main weakness has been a lack of power, and that develops as players get older, and he's still only 24. Still growing into his full power.
     
  20. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    Which brings us full circle. He's the starter, he's certainly graded out better then anybody else on the team at that position. He suits the Offense and what we do better. He's graded out as the 16th best Guard in the League so what is your plan here? You want to see the team go out and draft another 1st round Guard? I mean, outside of drafting that kind of talent, your not really going to upgrade Williams much. So is that what you are suggesting?

    I'm not trying to argue with you here, I'm just trying to lay out the facts. I get it, he's not the kind of player you like, he's not Larry Allen. I mean, I get it, I loved Larry Allen and that power offense, it's the kind of Football I grew up with. But it's not what we are doing today and I don't see us spending that kind of Draft capital to upgrade that position. I mean, do you see us drafting a Guard next year?
     
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