Contract Comparisons for Zeke

[Fla Cowpoke]

4 years 60-70 million.

so...pay him the most by a lot two years early? Glad you aren't running the cap.

If Dallas sticks to it's guns, they have him for two years at 12.9m. That is undisputable. Zeke could report and fake an injury or something and be a free agent in two years. Of course, if he does that, who is gonna pay him top dollar?

At this point, if Dallas has offered him something near what Gurley and Bell got he should be jumping at it.

 

[AbeBeta]

Just to be fair to Zeke, let's look at his very best season, 2016:

Zeke wants a contract for about 15M per season.

Freeman's AAV is 8.25M.

Multiple that by 1.8 and we get 14.85M which is about what Zeke appears to want.

Multiplying Freeman's stat in the same year, by 1.8:

Stat ............ Freeman x1.8 ... Zeke
Rushes ...... 408.6 ............ 322
Yds ............ 1942.2 .......... 1631
TD ............. 19.8 ............... 15
Lng ............ 75 .................. 60
Y/A ............ 4.8 ................. 5.1

If I can get Freeman plus a RB to produce 0.8 x Freeman for 0.8 x Freeman's AAV, then I come out ahead.

Right. Because Freeman demands the D's attention and opens the game up for others.

You know full well that doesn't work

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Todd Gurley
Reported: 4 years, $57.5 million, 14.375M average (extension through 2023).

Realistically, with the guarantees the contract is:
2018-2020 (3 years, 40M, 13.33M average)
2021 Team Option 9M
2022 Team Option 10M
2023 Team Option 12.5M


Le'Veon Bell
Reported: 4 years, $52.5 million, 13.125M average.

Realistically, with the guarantees the contract is:
2 years, 28.47M (14.23M average)

Meh.
Medium talent

 

[xwalker]

Right. Because Freeman demands the D's attention and opens the game up for others.

You know full well that doesn't work

Freeman's 4.8 yards/carry was good enough.

The issue is that he needs to stay around the 227 carries he had in 2016 and not the 322 that Zeke had.

If a team has a veteran that can manage 4.8 ypc on 227 carries (14 carries per game) then it should be a reasonable expectation that a RB on a rookie contract could be good for the remaining carries of about 8 per game.

I don't see the need for the one work horse RB that gets almost all the carries.

 

[Beast_from_East]

It's a bad precedent to give in to holdouts.

The point of 4 year contracts and 5th year options is too allow teams to get value from the draft picks they use to acquire players.

How well would the NFL work if teams could only sign draft picks to a 1 game contract?

The problem is that the owners agreed in the CBA that rookie contracts could be renegotiated after three seasons.

So they shouldn't act surprised when star players want a new contract after three seasons, regardless of how many years are left on their rookie deal.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Freeman's 4.8 yards/carry was good enough.

The issue is that he needs to stay around the 227 carries he had in 2016 and not the 322 that Zeke had.

If a team has a veteran that can manage 4.8 ypc on 227 carries (14 carries per game) then it should be a reasonable expectation that a RB on a rookie contract could be good for the remaining carries of about 8 per game.

I don't see the need for the one work horse RB that gets almost all the carries.

If you dont see the need for a work horse bell cow RB that gets all the carries...………….why was Zeke drafted 4th overall then?

You dont use a top 5 pick on a RB and then use him in a committee...………..a top 5 pick RB is the bell cow and is expected to carry the load himself. He doesn't need any help. That is Zeke, a one man rushing attack that can handle 30 carries a game and wear down a defense.

 

[Sydla]

Dead Money is money that has already been paid to the player but has not yet been charged to the teams cap.

• For Crawford the amount that he has been paid is 4.2M more than the amount that has been charged to the Cowboys cap.
• That 4.2M hits the cap at some point regardless of whether he is cut now, cut after 2019 or plays to the end of 2020 and finishes his contract.
• His 2019 base salary of 7M is added to the cap if he stays but that amount is zero if he is cut now.
• His 2020 base salary of 8M is added to the cap if he stays for 2020 but that amount is zero if he is cut before 2020.

The total cap hits for Crawford from 2019 to 2021 (the sum of all years):
If Cut Now: 4.2M
If Cut after 2019: 4.2M + 7M
If Plays through 2020: 4.2M + 7M + 8M

I know what dead money is.

I was askin what Gurley’s dead money hit was after 2020.

 

[DuncanIso]

so...pay him the most by a lot two years early? Glad you aren't running the cap.

If Dallas sticks to it's guns, they have him for two years at 12.9m. That is undisputable. Zeke could report and fake an injury or something and be a free agent in two years. Of course, if he does that, who is gonna pay him top dollar?

At this point, if Dallas has offered him something near what Gurley and Bell got he should be jumping at it.

He won't play under the old contract.

He wants more than TGurley and Bell.

So that's in the 4yrs 60-70 mill range.

 

[Hennessy_King]

The problem is that the owners agreed in the CBA that rookie contracts could be renegotiated after three seasons.

So they shouldn't act surprised when star players want a new contract after three seasons, regardless of how many years are left on their rookie deal.

Ding Ding Ding say it louder for the ppl in the back

 

[Hennessy_King]

I know what dead money is.

I was askin what Gurley’s dead money hit was after 2020.

They can potentially get out after the 2020 season. Would carry a dead cap hit of 12.6 million. Not bad compared to romos 20 million. Doesn't really make sense tho becuase they would only save like 600k. After 2021 makes the most sense.

 

[xwalker]

I know what dead money is.

I was askin what Gurley’s dead money hit was after 2020.

Bear with me on this, it's an important point that most fans/media overlook.

My point is that dead money does not matter.

If a player is on a 4 year, 40M contract, then his cap hits should be:
Example A:
10M
10M
10M
10M

If his cap hits are:
Example B:
5M
5M
5M
25M (5M base salary + 20M prorated money from previous years)

With regards to example B:
If the team cuts the player after year 3, then they have 20M in dead money.

If the team keeps the player for year 4 then that same 20M hits the cap plus the 5M base salary.

The 20M of dead money is not actually because of that player. It's because they delayed taking caps hits in order to pay other players.

The decision criteria to keep/cut the player after year 3 is just the 5M base salary because that's the amount that gets added to the cap if he stays.

 

[xwalker]

The problem is that the owners agreed in the CBA that rookie contracts could be renegotiated after three seasons.

So they shouldn't act surprised when star players want a new contract after three seasons, regardless of how many years are left on their rookie deal.

I agree that they should have insisted on different rules with regards to this issue in the CBA.

The rules with regards to rookie contracts worked out almost perfectly. There are rarely ever any holdouts by rookies since those rules were implemented.

The owners should insist in the next CBA on 1 of the following:
1. No new contracts allowed until 4 years have been completed (the rule is currently 3 years).
2. No contracts allowed to be signed during the season. A holdout would be pointless because a team could not give the player a new contract.

I think #2 above would be better.

The #1 option would limit teams to only a few days before the player (without the 5th year option) was either an unrestricted free agent or is Franchised.

The 5th year option should also be changed. It now has the emotional connotation for players similar to the Franchise Tag. Just make all contracts either 4 years or 5 years.

There are many concessions that the owners can make in the new CBA, but they should insist on rules to minimize holdouts.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

That's an interesting way to look at it. Honestly, I failed to consider there will be no impact on cap until year three (third year out from now or 2021), if I understand what you said correctly.

If he gets signing bonus money (which he will) that hits this year's cap and next year's cap.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

He won't play under the old contract.

He wants more than TGurley and Bell.

So that's in the 4yrs 60-70 mill range.

He has no choice if Dallas sticks to it's guns. There is a contract in place. Zeke cannot become a free agent until that contract has been completed. So that is a minimum of two years under contract. If he sits out the whole year, Dallas can just move the contract forward under the CBA, meaning if Zeke sits out this year, he would have to play the following year under the terms of this year's deal. Sure, Dallas loses the value the number one picked they used on Zeke a couple years ago, but they don't have to pay the money out.

Dallas has the biggest bargaining chip. They don't have to redo the deal this year....or even next year. So if they want to play hardball....Zeke has to play for two years at a total of 12.9m....or he doesn't get paid and he doesn't get a chance to be a free agent. Do you honestly think he is going to give up that money over principal? At some point he will cave. And if the reports are true that Dallas has offered money similar to the Bell and Gurley deals, do you really think Zeke is gonna turn down 14m a year for the next 4-5 years over a million or even 2 million a year? He would be an imbecile to do so.

 

[JBond]

He'd have to get the same or more guaranteed as Gurley. Bell isn't a good comparison as he's a bit of an odd commodity as the owners likely colluded to keep his salary down

Laughable....

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

And Bell had a much better bargaining position...as he was already through his contract and was under the franchise tag. THing is he sat out a year and didn't get paid that franchise tag money.

Bell got a 5 year 70m offer from Pittsburgh. He turned it down so they franchise tagged him for 14.55m. He didn't sign and sat out the whole year...didn't get paid. He ended up signing a 4 year 52.5m deal with the Jets. So he turned down an average value of 14m a year, didn't take the franchise money of 14.55m and sat out a year, then signed a deal averaging 13.125m a year. He will never make that 14.55m up and is getting less per year on average.

Tell me again how he won. And he was in better position than Zeke is.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

And Bell had a much better bargaining position...as he was already through his contract and was under the franchise tag. THing is he sat out a year and didn't get paid that franchise tag money.

Bell got a 5 year 70m offer from Pittsburgh. He turned it down so they franchise tagged him for 14.55m. He didn't sign and sat out the whole year...didn't get paid. He ended up signing a 4 year 52.5m deal with the Jets. So he turned down an average value of 14m a year, didn't take the franchise money of 14.55m and sat out a year, then signed a deal averaging 13.125m a year. He will never make that 14.55m up and is getting less per year on average.

Tell me again how he won. And he was in better position than Zeke is.

The steelers contract only guarantee signing bonus money as is their organizational policy.

Bell got more guaranteed money with the Jets.

That's how it is a win.

 

[xwalker]

And Bell had a much better bargaining position...as he was already through his contract and was under the franchise tag. THing is he sat out a year and didn't get paid that franchise tag money.

Bell got a 5 year 70m offer from Pittsburgh. He turned it down so they franchise tagged him for 14.55m. He didn't sign and sat out the whole year...didn't get paid. He ended up signing a 4 year 52.5m deal with the Jets. So he turned down an average value of 14m a year, didn't take the franchise money of 14.55m and sat out a year, then signed a deal averaging 13.125m a year. He will never make that 14.55m up and is getting less per year on average.

Tell me again how he won. And he was in better position than Zeke is.

The steelers contract only guarantee signing bonus money as is their organizational policy.

Bell got more guaranteed money with the Jets.

That's how it is a win.

The Gurley contract is basically 3-years, 40M with team options for each of the following years.

The Steelers offered Bell a 5 year, 70M contract with 33M guaranteed.

Bell ended up with a contract that is basically 2 years, 28.5M fully guaranteed.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

It's a bad precedent to give in to holdouts.

The point of 4 year contracts and 5th year options is too allow teams to get value from the draft picks they use to acquire players.

How well would the NFL work if teams could only sign draft picks to a 1 game contract?

Please tell me your spreadsheets aren’t saying Pollard is another Derrick Lassic.

 

[xwalker]

Please tell me your spreadsheets aren’t saying Pollard is another Derrick Lassic.

I'm not certain if that's a question.

My analysis from studying college game footage and Cowboys practice footage is that Pollard's "another Alvin Kamara".

No way to really know what would have happened if Lassic had to start more than the 2 games.
- He really only had 1 bad start and injures derailed him after that season.

Lassic

• Lassic did OK in the 1st game with 16 carries for 75 yards (4.69 yards/carry) plus 3 catches.
• The 2nd game stats were ugly (19 carries for 52 yards).
• Oddly Emmitt returned for game 3 but Lassic still had 14 carries (4.29 yards/carry) in that game.
• Lassic blew out his knee before his 2nd season.
• Before his 3rd season he was taken in the expansion draft by the Panthers but more injury issues derailed his career.