Contractors and construction workers - I need some advice

[Hoov]

Hired this guy who was referred to me to finish the walls of my basement. Its a 100 yr old house and the old cement is failing, in some places it is down to the stone. He said he'd do it for 1200. the basements 75 feet long, 10 ft high walls abd 15 feet wide.

So he tells me save money on delivery charges, give him 40 bucks and his brother will pick up materials. he spends the money, cant get anyone to pick it up, does not show up for a week, then i finally get it delivered and pay the 65 dollar delivery charge. he calls me at work and i tell him i'll do it myself at which point he tells me he and 3 guys are already on the way over to do the job right now and hangs up. i try to call back and cant get hold of him.

He shows up after the materials are delivered and gets a small 5 foot section done and tells me he needs money to pay all the guys that helped him unload the truck and carry the sand around to the back of the house. I asked him where they were and he says i sent them home early. I gave him 80 dollars, then my roomate comes home and says he lied and no one worked with him cause my roomate was there when he was carrying the materials to the back of the house.

The next day he was a no show. Day after that i wait until 10 am - he does not show so i go to work and my roomate decided that we would do the job ourself because he has experience in this and ive worked in masonry before too and we were getting tired of getting jerked around for 2 weeks now with this guy.

Then i get a call at noon, he leaves a message and says is on my front porch demanding i come home and unlock the door. i ignored the call because i was at work and i was not going to leave my job. my buddy who rents out the 3rd floor from me did not know what we had decided and he lets the guy in while he is on his way to work at 2pm (he works evenings), and the guy worked there for a few hours, then i get a call that he demands me to pay him some money cause he had a bunch of guys come over to help (which was another lie). My roomate comes home and the dude is still there at 9pm and he had gone up into my roomates room and was using his masonry tools which really pissed off my roomate. i was away for the w/e so he told him to clean up and leave.

So basically i want to fire this guy but he does not have a phone and he moved over the past 2 weeks so i have no way to get in contact with him. Also, he has no car which i did not know when i hired him, and so he is like impossible to find and completely unreliable.

So we locked up the house today so if he came over he couldnt get in and i was going to tell him he's fired the enxt time he calls me. He calls today from my neighbors house, i told him forget it, he lost the job because he is too inconsistent, he tells me i owe him 3 full days of work, he has done about 10% of the job, but he wants 3-400 dollars saying he has been out there 3 days now. But he hasnt got squat done because of all the issues. Then he tells me he already mixed up a full batch of cement because the door was left open which i know is a lie. i dont know how he got in my house, but he expects me to pay him for today just because he showed up whether he got any work done or not, said he was going to dump the cement in the backyard. and he said he would be there tommorow waiting for me to come home because i owe him money.

Ive already paid him 120 dollars and i dont care how much time he has wasted, i dont think i should have to pay him any more money because he hasnt got anything done really, he lies all the time, he went into my roomates bedroom and took his tools without asking, he dicked me around with the delivery, he comes to work only when he wants to and if you pay him anything he disappears for a few days. The dude definitely has a drug habit that is out of control.

I am wondering how other contractors deal with guys like this.

 

[calico]

Good lord, what a nightmare.

I am not a contractor, but my family has had similar problems with contractors in the past (not showing up for work, damaging property, stealing property, using cheap supplies and charging for the good stuff, painting the house the wrong color, etc...hell, we even had some roofers spend the whole day on our roof drinking cases of beer and singing instead of working.)

Is this some guy off the street or a licensed contrator?

I would keep an eye out for him and let your neighbors know that he is bad news and to keep an eye on your house if he comes around. I would not take it well if he threatened me like he did you with the cement, but I have a short temper.

From your post, I assume you paid him in cash? I would not do that anymore and give him checks...something that you can have a record of if this hits the courts.

I wish I could give you some help, but I am sure you will get plenty here with the great users.

 

[Hostile]

Report him to the local Registrar of Contractors offices.

They'll probably strip his license. That is highly unethical and they are a very ethics oriented licensing office.

You can also report him to the Better Business Bureau.

 

[Kangaroo]

Hired this guy who was referred to me to finish the walls of my basement. Its a 100 yr old house and the old cement is failing, in some places it is down to the stone. He said he'd do it for 1200. the basements 75 feet long, 10 ft high walls abd 15 feet wide.

So he tells me save money on delivery charges, give him 40 bucks and his brother will pick up materials. he spends the money, cant get anyone to pick it up, does not show up for a week, then i finally get it delivered and pay the 65 dollar delivery charge. he calls me at work and i tell him i'll do it myself at which point he tells me he and 3 guys are already on the way over to do the job right now and hangs up. i try to call back and cant get hold of him.

He shows up after the materials are delivered and gets a small 5 foot section done and tells me he needs money to pay all the guys that helped him unload the truck and carry the sand around to the back of the house. I asked him where they were and he says i sent them home early. I gave him 80 dollars, then my roomate comes home and says he lied and no one worked with him cause my roomate was there when he was carrying the materials to the back of the house.

The next day he was a no show. Day after that i wait until 10 am - he does not show so i go to work and my roomate decided that we would do the job ourself because he has experience in this and ive worked in masonry before too and we were getting tired of getting jerked around for 2 weeks now with this guy.

Then i get a call at noon, he leaves a message and says is on my front porch demanding i come home and unlock the door. i ignored the call because i was at work and i was not going to leave my job. my buddy who rents out the 3rd floor from me did not know what we had decided and he lets the guy in while he is on his way to work at 2pm (he works evenings), and the guy worked there for a few hours, then i get a call that he demands me to pay him some money cause he had a bunch of guys come over to help (which was another lie). My roomate comes home and the dude is still there at 9pm and he had gone up into my roomates room and was using his masonry tools which really pissed off my roomate. i was away for the w/e so he told him to clean up and leave.

So basically i want to fire this guy but he does not have a phone and he moved over the past 2 weeks so i have no way to get in contact with him. Also, he has no car which i did not know when i hired him, and so he is like impossible to find and completely unreliable.

So we locked up the house today so if he came over he couldnt get in and i was going to tell him he's fired the enxt time he calls me. He calls today from my neighbors house, i told him forget it, he lost the job because he is too inconsistent, he tells me i owe him 3 full days of work, he has done about 10% of the job, but he wants 3-400 dollars saying he has been out there 3 days now. But he hasnt got squat done because of all the issues. Then he tells me he already mixed up a full batch of cement because the door was left open which i know is a lie. i dont know how he got in my house, but he expects me to pay him for today just because he showed up whether he got any work done or not, said he was going to dump the cement in the backyard. and he said he would be there tommorow waiting for me to come home because i owe him money.

Ive already paid him 120 dollars and i dont care how much time he has wasted, i dont think i should have to pay him any more money because he hasnt got anything done really, he lies all the time, he went into my roomates bedroom and took his tools without asking, he dicked me around with the delivery, he comes to work only when he wants to and if you pay him anything he disappears for a few days. The dude definitely has a drug habit that is out of control.

I am wondering how other contractors deal with guys like this.

You do not have to pay him. Do you have a signed contract?

Did he meet his contract obligations ?

Sounds like he is trying to bully you into paying.

For future reference anyone that requires money up front as a contractor do not trust them period. In fact I say never hire them.

Either have it where you pay 1/2 at halfway completion and the rest when the job is done or full when the job is done in full

 

[MapleLeaf]

...and the materials. Forward a letter to him telling him that a settlement needs to be reached on the work and materials done.

Deduct any part of the services he has not fufilled and credit him for any work he has done. Use your best judgement on what he has accomplished and translate it into a time estimate.

Work on settling this out and get this guy out of your hair. Do not get involved with contractors who do piecemeal. Find someone reputable from either references of friends or ask for latest work references from contractors you interview.

Get this settled and move on.

Nect time have a contract with a project timeline established. Inside you should state a bill of materials, phases of the project and the dates of completion of each phase.

If the contractor asks for a portion up front, for say materials, inform him that payment will be forthcoming upon the date that materials arrive on site. Don't slack off on your project, take some control and monitor the contractor. After all it is your money.


Good luck.

 

[Hostile]

You do not have to pay him. Do you have a signed contract?

Did he meet his contract obligations ?

Sounds like he is trying to bully you into paying.

For future reference anyone that requires money up front as a contractor do not trust them period. In fact I say never hire them.

Either have it where you pay 1/2 at halfway completion and the rest when the job is done or full when the job is done in full

I want to echo what Kangaroo said here.

If they ask for it in a contract to buy the materials, fine, but you have the right to ask for the materials invoices.

Every time I've ever seen a guy demand money up front he needs a buzz.

 

[Hostile]

...and the materials. Forward a letter to him telling him that a settlement needs to be reached on the work and materials done.

Deduct any part of the services he has not fufilled and credit him for any work he has done. Use your best judgement on what he has accomplished and translate it into a time estimate.

Work on settling this out and get this guy out of your hair. Do not get involved with contractors who do piecemeal. Find someone reputable from either references of friends or ask for latest work references from contractors you interview.

Get this settled and move on.

Nect time have a contract with a project timeline established. Inside you should state a bill of materials, phases of the project and the dates of completion of each phase.

If the contractor asks for a portion up front, for say materials, inform him that payment will be forthcoming upon the date that materials arrive on site. Don't slack off on your project, take some control and monitor the contractor. After all it is your money.


Good luck.

Also great advice.

 

[Hoov]

Yeah, this guy is not licensed at all. I had some stucco work done last year, i had a contract with a guy (we'll call him Doc) so Doc gives me a fair price for the work, but then subs it all out to this guy. so i got his informnation and told him i needed the basement done in the summer and he said he would like to do the work.

This guy is not licensed and we have no contract. he came over and gave me a verbal estimate and the next day i ordered the materials. I even drove him to home depot and bought him some new tools and we agreed that we would just deduct that from the bill (it was only 28 dollars) but for over 2 weeks now i find myself picking him up or dropping him off somewhere, he never shows when he says he will, then calls me to come let him in the house.

The worst part is i was in no hurry to have the basement finished, but he got in touch with me and said he had some free time and he wanted to do the job for me right away and he would give me a "deal" on the price because he was out of work right now. since he did a good job with the stucco i thought maybe i'd take advantage of the fact that he was off and needed some exta work. Though it has truly been a nightmare dealing with him.

I know he cant make me pay because there is no contract, but i wonder if its not best just to give him another 100 dollars and say that should more than cover the work he has done so that he is out of my hair and not coming back around my house causing trouble.

he doesnt seem to understand that i have already given him money 3 differnt times and he really has not helped much in the way of getting the job done. all he knows is he came to my house on 3 separate days now and he should be paid for that time, he cant seem to comprehend the fact that it is not my fault that he wasted a lot of time getting the materials set up because of the little scam he tried to run to get money up front by saying he would take care of the delivery when i was more than willing to pay the place to deliver the materials, it is not my fault that he show up at noon and i cant leave my job to drive home and let him in the house. granted he has put some time in, but very little work has actually got done, the deal was not i would pay him by the hour, it was one price for the job, he has finished about 10 % of the job, but asking for about 25% of the money.

 

[trickblue]

Sounds to me like you are dealing with a man with substance/alcohol abuse problems...

Be careful...

 

[jksmith269]

Hired this guy who was referred to me to finish the walls of my basement. Its a 100 yr old house and the old cement is failing, in some places it is down to the stone. He said he'd do it for 1200. the basements 75 feet long, 10 ft high walls abd 15 feet wide.

So he tells me save money on delivery charges, give him 40 bucks and his brother will pick up materials. he spends the money, cant get anyone to pick it up, does not show up for a week, then i finally get it delivered and pay the 65 dollar delivery charge. he calls me at work and i tell him i'll do it myself at which point he tells me he and 3 guys are already on the way over to do the job right now and hangs up. i try to call back and cant get hold of him.

He shows up after the materials are delivered and gets a small 5 foot section done and tells me he needs money to pay all the guys that helped him unload the truck and carry the sand around to the back of the house. I asked him where they were and he says i sent them home early. I gave him 80 dollars, then my roomate comes home and says he lied and no one worked with him cause my roomate was there when he was carrying the materials to the back of the house.

The next day he was a no show. Day after that i wait until 10 am - he does not show so i go to work and my roomate decided that we would do the job ourself because he has experience in this and ive worked in masonry before too and we were getting tired of getting jerked around for 2 weeks now with this guy.

Then i get a call at noon, he leaves a message and says is on my front porch demanding i come home and unlock the door. i ignored the call because i was at work and i was not going to leave my job. my buddy who rents out the 3rd floor from me did not know what we had decided and he lets the guy in while he is on his way to work at 2pm (he works evenings), and the guy worked there for a few hours, then i get a call that he demands me to pay him some money cause he had a bunch of guys come over to help (which was another lie). My roomate comes home and the dude is still there at 9pm and he had gone up into my roomates room and was using his masonry tools which really pissed off my roomate. i was away for the w/e so he told him to clean up and leave.

So basically i want to fire this guy but he does not have a phone and he moved over the past 2 weeks so i have no way to get in contact with him. Also, he has no car which i did not know when i hired him, and so he is like impossible to find and completely unreliable.

So we locked up the house today so if he came over he couldnt get in and i was going to tell him he's fired the enxt time he calls me. He calls today from my neighbors house, i told him forget it, he lost the job because he is too inconsistent, he tells me i owe him 3 full days of work, he has done about 10% of the job, but he wants 3-400 dollars saying he has been out there 3 days now. But he hasnt got squat done because of all the issues. Then he tells me he already mixed up a full batch of cement because the door was left open which i know is a lie. i dont know how he got in my house, but he expects me to pay him for today just because he showed up whether he got any work done or not, said he was going to dump the cement in the backyard. and he said he would be there tommorow waiting for me to come home because i owe him money.

Ive already paid him 120 dollars and i dont care how much time he has wasted, i dont think i should have to pay him any more money because he hasnt got anything done really, he lies all the time, he went into my roomates bedroom and took his tools without asking, he dicked me around with the delivery, he comes to work only when he wants to and if you pay him anything he disappears for a few days. The dude definitely has a drug habit that is out of control.

I am wondering how other contractors deal with guys like this.

How are you taking this? To me it sounds like a threat and from the construction guys I've worked with in the past that is the way you should take it.

You have no contract so you can fire him anytime you want. he can't prove he did any of the work but on the other hand you can't prove how much you paid him and neither can he. So if I where you I'd inform him you would call the police if he returns and If your sure you locked the doors today I'd call them now. you have no telling what he may have done while you where gone and inform them (cops) everything you just said here, and if he's there tomorrow when you get home don't confront him call the police and have them remove him from your yard also I'd think about having him arrested for B&E today.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

If you DO give him money just to be done with him.

Write a check, make a point to put a note on the memo line saying FINAL PAYMENT for Construction work or something to that fact.

Heck say you will pay so much, make him sign the agreement and still write out a check with that on it.

Just make sure you have proof to any courts, if you need to go that route later, that you both agreed on final payment.

To be honest sounds to me like you could take him to court, but I understand if you just want the guy out of your hair.

 

[calico]

This guy is just giving you the run around now...he needs a fix of H or something and wants something to pay for it.

To be honest, I am not surprised that you are having problems with someone who is not licensed and out of work. There can be enough problems with poor, licensed contractors.

This is your money. Don't let him intimidate you and annoy you to the point where you just throw more money at him to make him go away...that is what he wants. He obviously does have a substance abuse problem and would probably show up the next week demanding more money because you "short changed" him in the final payment.

I would go with the advice here. Estimate how much work he has actually completed and pay him for that...if you feel that the 3 payments you already gave him cover that, then let him know that. Leave a letter taped to your door for him outlining these details.

If you actually want to have him finish working for you, go ahead and have him sign a contract outlining the payment and work details.

Do not be surprised if he won't take a check...probably using the excuse of no bank account. Tell him to take it or leave it because there are plenty of check cashing places that will handle it. Hell, even add on the fee they would charge him to cash it just so that you can have this record of payment.

 

[Crown Royal]

I am not a contractor - I am a property insurance adjuster, so I work with them all the time.

Some of the advise I give my insureds, though:

1) As already stated - no contractor worth their salt asks for money upfront. None. Materials happen every once in a while, especially when using a smaller tradesman or contractor, but even then, like they said, you need invoices and materials on arrival, and make sure you are paying materials ONLY.

2) As David said - YOU are the client, HE is the VENDOR. Especially out here during storm season, people who know nothing about contruction, contracting, trades, etc., and let their contractors dictate everything. No way - you should act as their client, foreman, daddy, warden, everything. You are paying them for a job - it is up to you to make sure they do it. On the other side, it is up to you to make sure that they are doing it right and what not, which brings us to the next point:

3) Don't use unlicensed contractors and, if they are tradesman (IE - you just need a drywaller, not a whole crew of different trades), make sure they are a member of their union or guild. For instance, my estimates on insured damages are sometimes lower than what contractors can do it for, especially in storms. In that case, we get an estimate showing the work - if I contact the contractor and discover they are unlicensed, I thank them for their time, contact the insured and inform them that I can't approve them for a supplemental payment. If you are using unlicensed workers, you are taking away some of your ability to ensure they do their job and you are asking for less quality work.

This is not a 100% thing - for instance, you might have a drywaller at your church who just drywalls for a living. If you know and trust them, that's fine, use them - drywall isn't a difficult trade (as compared to say, plaster). But always be cautious.

4) I understand this may not apply in this case, but it's still sound advise. Never accept a verbal estimate. Further, never accept an estimate that has a handwritten paragraph saying "remove and replace drwyall, seal and paint rooms and ceilings, clean area, etc." and then at the bottom has a total of the work to be done. You need to see unit measurements (how much work is being done, what is the area), unit pricing (how much do you charge per SF of paint, drywall, etc.), and a line item for each thing being done.

A contractor who comes in and gives you an arbitrary number didn't think about it enough. As an adjuster, I write a line by line estimate detailing each and everything to be done to repair damages in a dwelling. My lines include labor, material, etc., I show you every room measurement, EVERYTHING. The reason for this is that there is a formula used in the industry (insurance and contracting alike) called time and materials. The formula describes how much materials are in the area, the going labor rate, etc.

If your contractor can't provide you with that, he didn't think about it enough. A contractor who took the time to write out a good estimate is a guy who cares about his business and his quality, and is more than likely giving you a fair price.

5) Finally, I guess the point of all this, trust your contractor/tradesman for good reason. Not just because someone recommended him, but because he is known for being a good worker, he conducts his business properly, etc. Know what he is doing - don't let him talk you into anything - make sure you know what's going on. You don't have to be an expert, but you wouldn't open a bank account without knowing what money is.

It sounds like you got a guy who is subpar because he quoted you cheap. Good contractors still price reasonably, but when you try to cut corners with cheap, especially in the trade industry, it is going to show in the quality of work, dealing with your workers and overall headaches. I just don't recommend it.

 

[Hoov]

Thanks to everyone. Good advice in this thread. I'll let you all know how this ends up.

 

[Hoov]

Crown, your right about trying to cut corners, it generally does come back to bite you.

i do some construction work myself and my roomate does remodeling, and so along the way i have made friends with a lot of guys that do trades im not skilled at, like electrical work and plumbing. So they do work for me now and then. when i start projects they will usually just come and give me a very good price and we never draw up contracts because they are good guys and we hang out and go for beers and ive known them for a while.

and i guess since this guy did a good job on the outside of my house and my friend said he did good cement work for him, i thought he might become one of those guys that i could use for several projects and refer him to other friends and throw a lot of work his way. Originally the deal was he was going to work side by side with me and i would learn how to do this from him and i was going to pay him 200 dollars a day to work with me on staurdays or when he had time.

Then he comes over and says he was going to crank out the job in a couple days with another guy for 1200, which is actually a pretty good price so i decided fine.

My friend told me he does good work but he can be a pain in the but because he doesnt drive, but i didnt know he had all these other issues, apaprently he is really down and out right now and just got booted from his girlfriends place.

I guess my friend can deal with this type because he's a real agressive in your face person and he wont pay any money until the job is done and he gets people to bow down to him. He told me to get a hold of him and get in his face and crack the whip so to speak.

Thats not my nature to be honest so i just want to end it right now. This whole thing has just gotten so immature and silly, if i played back for you conversations of him and i, you would probably fall out of your chair laughing.

But enough of this, I mean, what's the point of having to ride someones butt all the time and threaten them and deal with their issues just because they are cheap. I told my friend everything that happened and that i fired this guy and he told me, "well have him call me because i have another basement for him, he wont play around with me because i'll put him in his place"

Man, i just dont work that way. he can have the headaches. I take pride in my work and the things i do, and i dont want to deal with these games.

 

[Crown Royal]

I'm really not that way with anyone - when it comes to business I never get in anyone's face, nor am I aggressive.

I do, however, make it clear what is expected, the job I am paying for, and I ensure it is getting done. If it doesn't get done, you get fined or fired. I don't yell about it or appear angry, because all in all, it really is just business to me.

If I were in your shoes, I would do about the same thing. At this point, I wouldn't want him in my house or give him the chance to work it anymore. It seems clear that he is not only unreliable, but he is adamant that he isn't going to improve. Like it sounds with your roommate - the only way it seems you will get the job done is if you have to ride him, and you aren't paying him to have to handle that hastle.

 

[Hoov]

last night i was trying to figure out how this guy got in the house friday and monday when we had locked all the doors.

Then i saw that our ladder had been moved and the back bedroom window on the second floor had been opened.

he called this morning and said i own him 600 dollars, thats all i could take, i went off on him and told him i was calling the police and reporting him for B + E and when i told him a neighbor saw him go through the window he admitted that was how he got in the house.

He still said he would be waiting on my porch at 5pm today and we would work out the money. I called the police and i am having them arrive a few minutes before i get there.

 

[calico]

last night i was trying to figure out how this guy got in the house friday and monday when we had locked all the doors.

Then i saw that our ladder had been moved and the back bedroom window on the second floor had been opened.

he called this morning and said i own him 600 dollars, thats all i could take, i went off on him and told him i was calling the police and reporting him for B + E and when i told him a neighbor saw him go through the window he admitted that was how he got in the house.

He still said he would be waiting on my porch at 5pm today and we would work out the money. I called the police and i am having them arrive a few minutes before i get there.

Good job. Breaking and entering...what an idiot. He wants half the payment without completing that much work :laugh1: ?

Let us know how it goes today...he might not even show with this guys track record.

 

[Hoov]

Calico,

He did not show at 5, he called a couple times and i told hin what i thought the amount of work he did was worth and there was no way i was going to pay him what he was asking, and expalined that he broke every aspect of the verbal contract we had more than once.

Then he tried to say he gets paid 40 dollars an hour and he was going to bill me for those hours, i said im still not paying that because you did not behave in a professional manner and our agreement was not an hourly rate.

He told me he was coming right over and we would come to an agreement, i said go ahead then. But he never showed up, and hasnt called yet today.

 

[trickblue]

Calico,

He did not show at 5, he called a couple times and i told hin what i thought the amount of work he did was worth and there was no way i was going to pay him what he was asking, and expalined that he broke every aspect of the verbal contract we had more than once.

Then he tried to say he gets paid 40 dollars an hour and he was going to bill me for those hours, i said im still not paying that because you did not behave in a professional manner and our agreement was not an hourly rate.

He told me he was coming right over and we would come to an agreement, i said go ahead then. But he never showed up, and hasnt called yet today.

ummm... Hoov... you were supposed to go pick him UP...

btw... Happy Belated Birthday...