Cowboys Draft Grades by Pick

ConceptCoop · May 3, 2016

speedkilz88 said:
In a vacuum maybe, but would you really consider an antonio cromartie in his best season more valuable then Emmitt Smith?

Give me Dion over Emmitt 10/10 in today's league.

ConceptCoop · May 3, 2016

jordan4vols said:
Everybody wants to be Mel Kiper

We're adults on a sports forum. Come off the high horse. I specifically said I'm not a scout and did this for fun.

ConceptCoop · May 3, 2016

SHAMSzy said:

Ceiling is relative to the draft slot. Elliott was very safe, but he doesn't have high upside compared to the average top 4 pick. B means about what you'd expect from a top 4 pick. Does anyone really want to argue that Elliott has the upside of a typical top pick? At RB?

As a RB, his ceiling is absolutely an A. As a top 4 pick in the NFL draft, I don't think it is.

dallasdave · May 3, 2016

RXP said:
I wasn't a fan of the Elliott pick, but his ceiling is definitely an A.

A+

dallasdave · May 3, 2016

Craig said:
Elliott's ceiling has to be A if not A+. I stopped reading at that point.

ConceptCoop · May 3, 2016

dallasdave said:

Of all the players drafted top 4 over the last decade, you think Elliott has a higher upside than most of them, considering the positional value?

SHAMSzy · May 3, 2016

ConceptCoop said:
Ceiling is relative to the draft slot. Elliott was very safe, but he doesn't have high upside compared to the average top 4 pick. B means about what you'd expect from a top 4 pick. Does anyone really want to argue that Elliott has the upside of a typical top pick? At RB?

As a RB, his ceiling is absolutely an A. As a top 4 pick in the NFL draft, I don't think it is.

LaDainian Tomlinson was a B at the 5th pick then? I'd say he was an A++

ConceptCoop · May 3, 2016

SHAMSzy said:
LaDainian Tomlinson was a B at the 5th pick then? I'd say he was an A++

LT was drafted 15 years ago - and a lot has changed since then. The RB position is a lot less valuable today.

Doug Martin was an All-Pro selection this year and signed a 5/35M(15G) contract. Janoris Jenkins was a slightly above average starting CB and got 5/62(28G). The fact of the matter is - positional value plays a major role in player value. If Elliott goes on to be the JJ Watt of RBs, he's still nowhere near as valuable as JJ Watt, who is nowhere near as valable as Aaron Rodgers.

I don't mean to suggest that Elliott doesn't have All-Pro upside. He absolutely does. But what are the odds he's ever as valuable as Tyron Smith? Pretty close to zero.

bsbellomy · May 3, 2016

ConceptCoop said:
In a vacuum, as a player, absolutely. But not when position is considered. Nothing Elliott can do as a player will make him a franchise QB, LT, DE, or, on a lesser scale, CB. I think that needs to be accounted for.

Elliott's ceiling is All-Pro RB; Ramsey's is All-Pro CB. I think one is more valuable than the other.

That's BS. If he ends up being a top 3 player at his position then he will have easily justified his draft status, which obviously the Cowboys believe he will. And if that's the case there will be often times he will be the best player on the field, and more valuable to the team's success than any CB in the league.

bsbellomy · May 3, 2016

ConceptCoop said:
Give me Dion over Emmitt 10/10 in today's league.

You're an idiot. At a MINIMUM we don't win the SB in 93 without Emmitt. Deion Sanders was a force in 95 but you can't say we wouldn't have won without him.

ConceptCoop · May 3, 2016

bsbellomy said:
That's BS. If he ends up being a top 3 player at his position then he will have easily justified his draft status, which obviously the Cowboys believe he will. And if that's the case there will be often times he will be the best player on the field, and more valuable to the team's success than any CB in the league.

Why do top 3 RBs make less than top 20 corners? Why are corners drafted higher than RBs in general?

You're welcome to call my opinion BS if it makes you fell better, but I hope you'll have a better response for the objective signs that RB is a less valuable position than others typically drafted top 5.

ConceptCoop · May 3, 2016

bsbellomy said:
You're an idiot. At a MINIMUM we don't win the SB in 93 without Emmitt. Deion Sanders was a force in 95 but you can't say we wouldn't have won without him.

It's not 1993, dude. If you haven't noticed, the game has changed. A lot.

Dion Sanders would be worth a lot more today than Emmitt Smith.

Don't believe me? Ask yourself why Patrick Peterson makes a whole hell of a lot more than Adrian Peterson.

yimyammer · May 3, 2016

RXP said:
I wasn't a fan of the Elliott pick, but his ceiling is definitely an A.

no doubt, I would think every first round pick could justifiably have an A+ ceiling

ConceptCoop · May 3, 2016

yimyammer said:
no doubt, I would think every first round pick could justifiably have an A+ ceiling

Is there anything he could reasonably do to be as valuable as Aaron Rodgers is today? If the answer is no - and it is - then they have different ceilings. If Rodgers is an A+, then Elliott somewhere below that. If Tyron Smith is an A, then Elliott is somewhere below that. If Patrick Peterson is an A, then Elliott is somewhere below that.

Anyway you want to slice it, having the best RB in the game is not as valuable as having the best QB, LT, DE, or CB. At least.

yimyammer · May 3, 2016

ConceptCoop said:
Is there anything he could reasonably do to be as valuable as Aaron Rodgers is today? If the answer is no - and it is - then they different ceilings. If Rodgers is an A+, then Elliott somewhere below that. If Tyron Smith is an A, then Elliott is somewhere below that. If Patrick Peterson is an A, then Elliott is somewhere below that.

kind of a pointless debate but I'll just add that I believe each position can have an A+ ceiling (with ceiling being defined as the top percentile of quality at that position) but an A+ RB is not as valuable as an A+ QB

ConceptCoop · May 3, 2016

yimyammer said:
kind of a pointless debate but I'll just add that I believe each position can have an A+ ceiling (with ceiling being defined as the top percentile of quality at that position) but an A+ RB is not as valuable as an A+ QB

I agree with you there, depending on how you want to measure ceiling. But I think when you're drafting top 5, positional value plays a major part. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

yimyammer · May 3, 2016

ConceptCoop said:
I agree with you there, depending on how you want to measure ceiling. But I think when you're drafting top 5, positional value plays a major part. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

Oh I agree, like I said I don't believe an A+ RB is as valuable as an A+ QB

I consider ceiling to be a measure of talent for a position type and cant really be compared across positions

Value can be compared across positions so it sounds like you're conflating two different things

We'd never say Rogers is a great QB but he's a ****** RB because its a pointless evaluation.

Hope I'm making some sense, seems intuitive

dallasdave · May 3, 2016

ConceptCoop said:
Of all the players drafted top 4 over the last decade, you think Elliott has a higher upside than most of them, considering the positional value?

Yes

ConceptCoop · May 3, 2016

dallasdave said:
Yes

I think that's silly, but at least we know where we stand.

dallasdave · May 3, 2016

ConceptCoop said:
I think that's silly, but at least we know where we stand.

opinions vary

Cowboys Draft Grades by Pick

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