News: Cowboys Draft: The best round to find a WR

[LACowboysFan1]

Most articles I've read show the offensive line class to have a deeper pool of very good prospects, whereas linebacker is pretty limited in first round quality.

Going o-line in the first probably means the linebackers left in the second are a much less likely to succeed group, you do have to balance need with the bpa, so I'd have to go linebacker, especially middle linebacker, at 19, unless ther top 3 or 4 are gone by 19, in which case the remainder are only second round quality anyway, then you can go o-line...

 

[Stash]

I don't think at 19 there will be a scenario where Wynn or Hernandez are clearly the best prospect on the board. So weigh that with the fact that the team has invested a crap ton in the OL already.

Add that up, an OG at 19 is questionable value IMO.

I'd weigh it against how much any other player you would draft would be playing.

Who would play more than the starting left guard would?

 

[Sydla]

I'd weigh it against how much any other player you would draft would be playing.

Who would play more than the starting left guard would?

Using that logic, then we should never use a first round pick on anyone that doesn't have a direct impact on every single play. So basically that would mean drafting an OL or a QB only because a TE, WR or RB aren't involved in every play and come off the field in certain situations.

I think people are now creating bizarre reasons to justify yet another first round pick on an OL.

This is a team that continues, year after year, to lack the talent necessary on defense to push this team beyond where it has gone in recent years, and yet the battle cry is draft an OG or WR at 19.

I don't get it.

 

[Stash]

Using that logic, then we should never use a first round pick on anyone that doesn't have a direct impact on every single play. So basically that would mean drafting an OL or a QB only because a TE, WR or RB aren't involved in every play and come off the field in certain situations.

I think people are now creating bizarre reasons to justify yet another first round pick on an OL.

How about answering the question?

This is a team that continues, year after year, to lack the talent necessary on defense to push this team beyond where it has gone in recent years, and yet the battle cry is draft an OG or WR at 19.

I don't get it.

It sounds like you adamantly don't want to get it.

 

[DanA]

Using that logic, then we should never use a first round pick on anyone that doesn't have a direct impact on every single play. So basically that would mean drafting an OL or a QB only because a TE, WR or RB aren't involved in every play and come off the field in certain situations.

I think people are now creating bizarre reasons to justify yet another first round pick on an OL.

This is a team that continues, year after year, to lack the talent necessary on defense to push this team beyond where it has gone in recent years, that also has a barren hole at LB and possibly the 1 Tech.

And yet, here comes another draft and people are railing for another first round OL or a WR.

Witten played 1050 snaps
Dez played 894 snaps
Zeke played 736 snaps in 2016

That’s not really the same as a 1 tech or 3rd LB that might play 400-500 snaps. It’s a 50-100% difference in start time and they’re low cost positions. And I’m not against taking a low cost position if it’s the best player on the board either like Zeke was. It’s just unlikely to fall that way with how I have things evaluated.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Using that logic, then we should never use a first round pick on anyone that doesn't have a direct impact on every single play. So basically that would mean drafting an OL or a QB only because a TE, WR or RB aren't involved in every play and come off the field in certain situations.

I think people are now creating bizarre reasons to justify yet another first round pick on an OL.

This is a team that continues, year after year, to lack the talent necessary on defense to push this team beyond where it has gone in recent years, and yet the battle cry is draft an OG or WR at 19.

I don't get it.

I don't either, though I would say that I don't see that a DT that can play the 1 Tech spot is so critical, mainly because the defense, especially as Marinelli views it, plays the 4-3 which places a premium on quickness and penetration by the tackles, not the "run stuffing" nose tackle. I'm assuming here of course that Vea isn't going to be around at 19, he's got unusual quickness for a big guy.

I'd say let's plug in Fleming at RT, move Collins back to guard to start. Gotta grab a stout middle linebacker, I am not convinced J. Smith has the smarts to play Mike and it's pretty obvious the Cowboys don't want Lee back at Mike. So if J. Smith can't handle the job, you'll have to plug in someone like Hitchens, at 235 lbs or so and hope he can hold up physically, which we've seen in the past couple of years hasn't happened...

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I'm just really thinking out loud, but?

Do we really need the Dez or Irvin type receiver? What is one of the reasons the Patriots have been successful in the last 10-12 years? Teams can't focus on one receiver, be it Edelman, Amendola, or Gronkowski, same with running back, one game it's Lewis, the next game it's somebody else. Keeps the defenses guessing.

Hurns, Williams, Beasley, Brown, Switzer, Thompson, Witten, Hanna, (hopefully) Gathers and even Zeke out of the backfield all in the mix a significant part of the time. If somebody like Hurns starts to dominate, then sure, make him "the guy", but I would think it's worth a shot to use several receivers at various times rather than throwing 100 times to Hurns, etc....

 

[Sydla]

How about answering the question?



It sounds like you adamantly don't want to get it.

I answered the question. Drafting on how much they might play seems foolish because as I said, using that logic, then only take an OL or QB in round one because any other offensive player, for example, won't play as much as those two.

 

[Stash]

I answered the question.

No you didn't.

Who would play more than that left guard?

Drafting on how much they might play seems foolish because as I said, using that logic, then only take an OL or QB in round one because any other offensive player, for example, won't play as much as those two.

That's nonsense. Reductio ad absurdum. You're being as deliberately obtuse here as you accuse others of being.

You won't answer the question because you yourself already know the answer. You're hung up on it being another first rounder.

 

[Sydla]

No you didn't.

Who would play more than that left guard?



That's nonsense. Reductio ad absurdum. You're being as deliberately obtuse here as you accuse others of being.

You won't answer the question because you yourself already know the answer. You're hung up on it being another first rounder.

I answered the question by stating how much one plays is pointless and results in a really silly logic. Of course an OL plays more than say a WR. But trying to extract the concept of "value" out of that is peculiar. It's another bizarre way to justify yet another OG at 19.

It's not about being obtuse. It's just pointing out the flaw in the logic that if how much one plays is pivotal in finding "value" in the first round, then we should never take a player in the first round that won't play basically every snap on either side of the ball.

 

[Doomsday]

Ridley? So you're replacing a 6-2, 220 lb receiver with a 6-0, 189 guy? Dez's strengths were just that - his size. Ridley comes up a bit short in that regard. Had a slightly faster 40 - 4.43 to 4.52, but to me that's not enough to take him in the first.

Who cares if he can run good routes and get separation?

Would you rather have Dez or Antonio Brown?

Yea, Dez is going to be missed in the red zone but Zeke should be open things up for other guys on the outside.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

"I answered the question."

"No you didn't.

Who would play more than that left guard?"

If I may, I'll answer the question. Nobody.

There, it's answered. Doesn't mean anything as regards who you'd draft, but it's answered....

 

[Stash]

I answered the question by stating how much one plays is pointless and results in a really silly logic. Of course an OL plays more than say a WR. But trying to extract the concept of "value" out of that is peculiar. It's another bizarre way to justify yet another OG at 19.

What's "bizarre" about it? Because it's an "inconvenient truth" of the process? Because it makes too much sense? Because it flies in the face of using the pick on "anybody else"?

It's not about being obtuse. It's just pointing out the flaw in the logic that if how much one plays is pivotal in finding "value" in the first round, then we should never take a player in the first round that won't play basically every snap on either side of the ball.

The flaw in that logic is that the dynamics are different every year. You know that as well as I do. It's not every year that this team needs a left guard. Did they need one last year? Of course not. And do the needs always line up with player value like they do this year? Again, of course not.

And trying to use that logic is clearly flawed. But you me and everyone else know that, but you're trying to anyway.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Who cares if he can run good routes and get separation?

True, but just saying he wouldn't be able to replace Bryant since he doesn't have the size and power, if the team valued Dez to be able to out-muscle and out-jump defenders, they will probably lose that. Cowboys already have a couple of about 6-0 and 200 lb receivers in Thompson and Lenoir, would Ridley be a huge upgrade over those guys?

And as far as Dez goes, Hurns is 6-3 and Brown is 6-2 and 222, so they again already have guys with similar size. Are either of those guys Dez? No, at least at this time, but I just don't see taking a receiver in the first round when you have young guys already on the roster who haven't gotten a chance to see if they can fulfill the role.

Add to that the fact that the Cowboys will focus the offense on Zeke, there is in my view a much bigger need to go with linebacker before a receiver.

But I can see why you like Ridley, he does have potential...

 

[Doomsday]

They don't need to be Dez though either. They just need to do their jobs.

I think people seem to forget for almost every strength Dez brings there is also a weakness.

Plus Dez and Dak haven't been able to get on the same page for whatever reason they were not able to have the chemistry needed to be a dynamic duo.

Will some of the things Dez brought to the table be missed? Yes! However, there are other things that won't be and it was just time to move on.

 

[Sydla]

What's "bizarre" about it? Because it's an "inconvenient truth" of the process? Because it makes too much sense? Because it flies in the face of using the pick on "anybody else"?



The flaw in that logic is that the dynamics are different every year. You know that as well as I do. It's not every year that this team needs a left guard. Did they need one last year? Of course not. And do the needs always line up with player value like they do this year? Again, of course not.

And trying to use that logic is clearly flawed. But you me and everyone else know that, but you're trying to anyway.

Because if there was excessive value in using first round picks on guys that play the most, then teams would be dump to take a WR in the first round or a pass rusher who might come off the field on run downs or a RB. Essentially you'd be left picking only an OL or QB, the only players that probably stay on the field the most.

It's never really been an issue, a factor until all of a sudden now.............. when you guys are trying to justify taking an OG at 19, especially when it's clear that this team has way more needs than just a LG, a position, by the way, that can be filled by a competent player in later rounds. History would tell us that you don't need a stud LG to make this OL work.

 

[Stash]

Because if there was excessive value in using first round picks on guys that play the most, then teams would be dump to take a WR in the first round or a pass rusher who might come off the field on run downs or a RB. Essentially you'd be left picking only an OL or QB, the only players that probably stay on the field the most.

But, as has been mentioned, it's not the sole reason either. The value happens to match up with an obvious need. It's not simply about playing time. But that's all the position needs to be more impactful over any of the others. And it is.

It's never really been an issue, a factor until all of a sudden now.............. when you guys are trying to justify taking an OG at 19, especially when it's clear that this team has way more needs than just a LG, a position, by the way, that can be filled by a competent player in later rounds. History would tell us that you don't need a stud LG to make this OL work.

What "history"? The 90's?

And again, you're clamoring for other positions just for the sake of it not being a guard in the first round. Second round? Signed me up! Third round? Great idea! But first round? No way! Despite the need, despite the talent lining up. All reason flies out the window because they've invested first rounders in other positions before. Not at this spot, but because they've invested firsts at the others, they can't possibly do it at this one.

That rules out using a first rounder at an awful lot of spots. Because a first rounder has been used this in that position group already.

 

[xwalker]

I'd weigh it against how much any other player you would draft would be playing.

Who would play more than the starting left guard would?

Witten played more snaps than Zack Martin in 2017...

 

[Stash]

Witten played more snaps than Zack Martin in 2017...

What's your point? That Martin missed time with injury?

 

[xwalker]

What's your point? That Martin missed time with injury?

It's just funny.