Cowboys get worst grade by Jason Cole of Yahoo Sports

[ethiostar]

and Doug free got paid to play football. That means NOTHING

:laugh2:

Well played!

 

[ethiostar]

I wish someone would grade these 'draft analysts'. Find grades they assigned to each team over a ten year span (say, from 1999 up to 2009) and assess the quality and accuracy of their draft evaluation. I would love to do it but I simply do not have the time.

I don't put any stock in these grades. I never have and never will. I may reconsider if someone does an analysis of the graders and show the level of accuracy, over a ten year period (or at least over three or more years), for each analyst.

DFWJC pulled this quote from an article by Bob Sturm posted in the News Zone.

"And yet, everywhere I look, here is another media guy grading all 32 teams! With what information?

That makes no sense to me and I refuse to participate in what amounts to gathering military intelligence about the middle east by watching cable news. It is an insult to those media departments who employ a dozen guys who evaluate talent all day, every day, for 12 months a year to grade their performance based on 5 minutes of youtube highlights and whether or not they drafted a local player from a college I watch on Saturdays and maybe remember 5 of his college plays. I find that sort of guess work silly and think that you should try to avoid those who attempt to tell you who the "winners and losers" over the weekend are.

They are surely taking wild guesses and are seldom willing to share their grading mis-steps from previous drafts. If getting a good grade from the media means taking guys they have heard of, then this is all a waste of time."

http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2013/04/nfl-draft-2013-attempting-to-analyze.html

 

[ethiostar]

I've been searching for a study on the accuracy of draft 'experts' and so far this is the only article I have found. The analysis has some limitations, small sample size being one of them. It also only focuses on Kiper and McShay and is more of a comparative analysis attempting to determine who is more accurate. However, the authors draw some tentative conclusion that extent beyond the two 'gurus'. Despite the limitations, it is interesting, if nothing else.

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpr...mel-kiper-jr-and-todd-mcshays-draft-rankings/

 

[InmanRoshi]

I wish someone would grade these 'draft analysts'.

There are actual NFL people who know what are going on. There are a few beat writers who have access to NFL people, like Bob McGinn and formerly Goose, who can glean information from a large sampling of the NFL to get a pretty educated opinion. There are a probably a lot of guys who have maybe 1 or 2 sources, who are completely at the mercy of what the limited source feeds them .... whether they're blatantly misleading or simply have an opinion outside the variance of the norm. And then there is the internet hivemind collective, who just scour the internet and regurgitate each other's pre-approved consensus opinions.

 

[conner01]

Here's Cole's review of Seattle's 2012 draft:

Seattle Seahawks
Picks: OLB Bruce Irvin, ILB Bobby Wagner, QB Russell Wilson, RB Robert Turbin, DT Jaye Howard, LB Korey Toomer, CB Jeremy Lane, SS Winston Guy Jr., DT J.R. Sweezy, DE Greg Scruggs
Grade: D-
Analysis: I have a great deal of respect for the work of John Schneider, but I don't understand this draft. Of eight teams (five of which drafted after the Seahawks) that were surveyed, none graded Irvin as a first-round pick. Yes, he has talent, and he could become great. He also might be a guy who burns out in two years because there are plenty of people who question his dedication. After that, the Seahawks spent a third-round pick on Wilson even though the history of QBs under 6-foot is poor, to say the least. You don't spend a third-round pick on a guy who'll be lucky to be Seneca Wallace. You also don't do that after signing Matt Flynn as a free agent. The Seahawks are no closer to solving the QB situation now than they were before 2011.

(This actually means our 2013 draft was awesome.)

/thread

that tells you all you need to know about his ability to judge drafts. he is a paid writer so just how much time does he spend watching film and evaluating the players?

 

[conner01]

There are actual NFL people who know what are going on. There are a few beat writers who have access to NFL people, like Bob McGinn and formerly Goose, who can glean information from a large sampling of the NFL to get a pretty educated opinion. There are a probably a lot of guys who have maybe 1 or 2 sources, who are completely at the mercy of what the limited source feeds them .... whether they're blatantly misleading or simply have an opinion outside the variance of the norm. And then there is the internet hivemind collective, who just scour the internet and regurgitate each other's pre-approved consensus opinions.

you have to consider two things when grading a draft guy. is he acurate on where players will go, is he acurate in his evaluatiion of players. those are two totally different things. goose was good at mock drafts because he had sources who would give him info. but goose does'nt spend hours and hours watching film to evaluate these players

 

[ethiostar]

you have to consider two things when grading a draft guy. is he acurate on where players will go, is he acurate in his evaluatiion of players. those are two totally different things. goose was good at mock drafts because he had sources who would give him info. but goose does'nt spend hours and hours watching film to evaluate these players

That is really the only thing that matters to me.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

An F? Seriously, that's written by someone who either simply hates the Cowboys or is incompetent.

Draft grades are pretty stupid in general since no one has a crystal ball that foretells how these players will work out, but anyone making any kind of reasonable educated guess wouldn't say F.

 

[InmanRoshi]

That is really the only thing that matters to me.

It's the least important thing to me. It might have held some value at one time, but now with every player having multiple games up on YouTube I can be my own amateur internet scout and form my own amateur internet opinions without blindly following someone else's write up. What I don't have is NFL Front Office access to find out what they actually think about the player. Amateur internet draft scouts are a dime a dozen. The internet is infested with them. People with sourced opinions and access to NFL Front Offices are rare.

 

[Doomsday101]

The guy that gives a team an A and the guy who gives a team an F have one thing is common. Neither guy knows what the heck they are talking about. A year from now or 2 years from now should tell you all you need to know about a draft class.

 

[TNCowboy]

:laugh2: at fans bashing hack sportswriters giving their opinion, but giving a pass to Jerry Jones who has orchestrated more disastrous drafts than any currently employed GM. Priceless.

 

[5Stars]

:laugh2: at fans bashing hack sportswriters giving their opinion, but giving a pass to Jerry Jones who has orchestrated more disastrous drafts than any currently employed GM. Priceless.

:laugh2: at you for defending some hack sportswriter by saying that hack knows more about a football team than Jerry.

Jerry is not the best but he's better than YOUR hack!

 

[ethiostar]

It's the least important thing to me. It might have held some value at one time, but now with every player having multiple games up on YouTube I can be my own amateur internet scout and form my own amateur internet opinions without blindly following someone else's write up. What I don't have is NFL Front Office access to find out what they actually think about the player. Amateur internet draft scouts are a dime a dozen. The internet is infested with them. People with sourced opinions and access to NFL Front Offices are rare.

That's just it, I don't have time to watch youtube videos of multiple games on dozens of players. I am the first to admit that I am no talent evaluator. I haven't played the game and I don't follow college football. As much as I don't put a lot of value on what the guru's have to say in terms of draft grades, I will admit that they know more about the game and talent evaluation than I do. If for no other reason than they spend more time on it than I do. The point of my post was that it would be great to identify so called experts who have a good track record of projecting the success of college players into the NFL. They clearly dedicate more time to this effort than I do.

Yes, it would be great to know what Front Offices think about certain players, however, there is too much smoke screen leading up to the draft for me to put too much stock on any insider info even when a credible one exists.

 

[Miller]

I put this in another thread and will put it here

I have one issue that keeps coming up and it's unbecoming if a fan base. The old "these experts/mediots don't know as much as they seem" due to bad grades given or not liking picks or because if where they rated picks. Maybe in the CZ bubble where local hacks and ESPN are your go to sources but overall there are a lot of credible people out there who aren't scouts who study film 24/7 and who watch these guys year around, not just pre draft. Take Greg Cosell who for 30 years has been working at NFL Films and who analyzes tape weekly. He's been branching out and is considered one of the top People NFL GMs consult with. Heck, Lance Zierlein in Houston, the radio host and whose dad is a NFL Oline coach, has a website, theSidelineView.com and he and John Harris and others analyze tape and players year round. These scouts aren't infallible or there wouldn't be so many bad teams with bad drafts.

I think in a day and age where tape is more readily available and the draft becomes more mainstream, you'll have more guys like the ones I mentioned above vs the newspaper guys who take guess once a year. There are many incredibly knowledgeable resources out there if people actually look.

 

[InmanRoshi]

:laugh2: at fans bashing hack sportswriters giving their opinion, but giving a pass to Jerry Jones who has orchestrated more disastrous drafts than any currently employed GM. Priceless.

:laugh2: At fans bashing fans for givingh their opinions.

This board, however, could desperately use another post of your opinion of Jerry Jones. That's some Grade A knowledge sharing that's made this board the intellectual hub it's become in the last 2 years.

 

[Doomsday101]

I put this in another thread and will put it here

I have one issue that keeps coming up and it's unbecoming if a fan base. The old "these experts/mediots don't know as much as they seem" due to bad grades given or not liking picks or because if where they rated picks. Maybe in the CZ bubble where local hacks and ESPN are your go to sources but overall there are a lot of credible people out there who aren't scouts who study film 24/7 and who watch these guys year around, not just pre draft. Take Greg Cosell who for 30 years has been working at NFL Films and who analyzes tape weekly. He's been branching out and is considered one of the top People NFL GMs consult with. Heck, Lance Zierlein in Houston, the radio host and whose dad is a NFL Oline coach, has a website, theSidelineView.com and he and John Harris and others analyze tape and players year round. These scouts aren't infallible or there wouldn't be so many bad teams with bad drafts.

I think in a day and age where tape is more readily available and the draft becomes more mainstream, you'll have more guys like the ones I mentioned above vs the newspaper guys who take guess once a year. There are many incredibly knowledgeable resources out there if people actually look.

Problem is even in the past when they gave us a high grade they were not always right. No one knows, these are opinions of writers. Reality something people love to talk about around here is no one knows how any of these picks will turn out, be it the Cowboys or another team.

Right now all I see are those who constantly complain gravitating to the writers who see things as they do and those who want to praise the draft will gravitate to the writer they agree with yet in the end no one knows how any of this will play out.

I do like the guys we picked up I think 1st rd pick was a bit of a reach but then I look at OL players taken in rd 1 by NY who was a reach and saw many of the top OL players were falling fast either Dallas jumped in or we sit here today with no OL prospect. Fredrick on some publication was a 2nd on others he was later pick who was right? It is a matter of opinion.

 

[TNCowboy]

:laugh2: At fans bashing fans for givingh their opinions.

This board, however, could desperately use another post of your opinion of Jerry Jones. That's some Grade A knowledge sharing that's made this board the intellectual hub it's become in the last 2 years.

Far better than you groveling at his feet.

:laugh2: Standings don't lie. Scoreboards don't lie. 17 years. You can try to hide behind whatever nonsensical spin you can conjure up, but then what happens on the field exposes Jones and Garrett on an annual basis. But by all means, keep following along with the rest of his sheep. Eventually you'll tire of carrying Jones' water just like legions of others have in the last few years.

 

[TNCowboy]

:laugh2: at you for defending some hack sportswriter by saying that hack knows more about a football team than Jerry.

Jerry is not the best but he's better than YOUR hack!

Not my hack by any means. He has singlehandedly turned me from a die hard Cowboy fan to a casual fan who is more interested in watching football in general as opposed to living and dying by the Cowboys.

I'd wager there are a # of journalists who know more about football than Jones. I'd rather entrust the team's personnel to probably half the people on this board instead of him. Any hack sportswriter (although Cole isn't in that category) could've bought Mel Kiper's draft guide the last decade and a half and outdrafted Jerry Jones.

Look at the teams draft sans the Parcells years. It's a disaster. Bottom third of the league. If you aren't looking at every draft pick he makes with a skeptical eye, you're a fool.

 

[jjktkk]

Far better than you groveling at his feet.

:laugh2: Standings don't lie. Scoreboards don't lie. 17 years. You can try to hide behind whatever nonsensical spin you can conjure up, but then what happens on the field exposes Jones and Garrett on an annual basis. But by all means, keep following along with the rest of his sheep. Eventually you'll tire of carrying Jones' water just like legions of others have in the last few years.

Lol, legions. You running a anti-Jerry rebellion? And I'm pretty sure. most of these "sheep" you refer to, are not fans of Jerry, but fans of the Cowboys. But, I'm guess you think your the only fan whose frustrated with the Cowboy's 17 years of futility, and feel its your duty to enlighten us "sheep" on Jerry Jones handling this team.

 

[Miller]

Problem is even in the past when they gave us a high grade they were not always right. No one knows, these are opinions of writers. Reality something people love to talk about around here is no one knows how any of these picks will turn out, be it the Cowboys or another team.

Right now all I see are those who constantly complain gravitating to the writers who see things as they do and those who want to praise the draft will gravitate to the writer they agree with yet in the end no one knows how any of this will play out.

I do like the guys we picked up I think 1st rd pick was a bit of a reach but then I look at OL players taken in rd 1 by NY who was a reach and saw many of the top OL players were falling fast either Dallas jumped in or we sit here today with no OL prospect. Fredrick on some publication was a 2nd on others he was later pick who was right? It is a matter of opinion.

I agree that we don't know who is going to be right or wrong. Completely! I think the whole thing is a crapshoot honestly with the exception of a few organizations who really know how to fill their holes and who have guys that fit their system. My main point is that there many knowledgeable guys out there now that always studies tape but now use the internet now to get their opinions or study across vs the old days when a newspaper hack basically looked at some info for a week, called around and made a list.

I think we got guys with talent....I just see a little from both sides. a) Frederick was rated lower to some so lets see if those negatives..getting to a second level..turn up. WR and S are a little raw so maybe not going to see the instant production people are wanting. BUT I also think on this team they will have a chance to play and if talented wil lmake their mark. I personally wanted more DL and OL but we will see where this ends up in 2 years or so.