Cowboys private workout w/ Joey Bosa

gimmesix

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If the league changed it's drug policy to remove Marijuana, I might warm up to him (not really, I want to trade up for Wentz :)). We have Gregory who is actually more of the talent we need off the edge and allows Lawrence to continue his development @ LE. Screams need pick to me and short term thinking.

I'm not sure why getting the top DE in this draft means the team is thinking short term. We need two talented starting ends for the long term.

Or is it that any pick other than drafting a QB for the future "screams need pick" and "short term thinking?"

I would think Dallas would like to fix its defensive line for years and years to come.
 

BigStar

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I'm not sure why getting the top DE in this draft means the team is thinking short term. We need two talented starting ends for the long term.

Or is it that any pick other than drafting a QB for the future "screams need pick" and "short term thinking?"

I would think Dallas would like to fix its defensive line for years and years to come.

No, it's because Bosa isn't a RE or edge rusher. We have a player @ LE already who is developing nicely, so we move him to RE to accommodate another strong side end; need. Or sign Hardy who would likely provide a better pass rush than Bosa as a rook, and see if Gregory matures on the weed smoking until the league eventually changes policy.
 

Rogerthat12

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Anybody else find themselves coming around on Bosa? The more I read, the more I feel this guy is somehow getting underrated. It doesn't seem to be hurting his public draft projections, but he's universally listed as a top-5 player and he's pretty much the guy nobody seems to want. The more it goes on, the more it gets me thinking he's a value player who's not getting respect because he lacks flash in terms of sack numbers. It's kind of got me rooting for him, Ohio State or no.

I think the main issue some have is with picking him at #4 and relative to other draft classes people are expecting elite or premium edge rushers with respect to picking a DE at that spot.

The problem appears to be with respect to this particular draft class, Bosa is the most complete DE prospect but also lacks elite edge rush ability.

This does not suggest that he lacks rush ability categorically, just elite edge rush ability.

I agree with Brugler that Spence is the best pure edge rusher in this class but that Bosa is the better overall player and DE prospect.

I agree with Brugler to the extent that Bosa is disruptive even without elite edge ability and has excellent technique as well.

I have mixed feelings on the player overall, I see his ability to be disruptive and his technique ability but I wonder how this translates to NFL caliber OL using their counter moves.

Further, it is hard to get around a prospect at #4 not having elite or premium edge rush ability regardless and I completely understand this is draft relative!

I like the player, I just do not love the player, I want to love the player @4.
 

texbumthelife

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The Cowboys have obviously shown that their focus is going to be on working from the inside out (OL/DL). If that idea remains, it would make sense they would target Bosa.
 

texbumthelife

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I think the main issue some have is with picking him at #4 and relative to other draft classes people are expecting elite or premium edge rushers with respect to picking a DE at that spot.

The problem appears to be with respect to this particular draft class, Bosa is the most complete DE prospect but also lacks elite edge rush ability.

This does not suggest that he lacks rush ability categorically, just elite edge rush ability.

I agree with Brugler that Spence is the best pure edge rusher in this class but that Bosa is the better overall player and DE prospect.

I agree with Brugler to the extent that Bosa is disruptive even without elite edge ability and has excellent technique as well.

I have mixed feelings on the player overall, I see his ability to be disruptive and his technique ability but I wonder how this translates to NFL caliber OL using their counter moves.

Further, it is hard to get around a prospect at #4 not having elite or premium edge rush ability regardless and I completely understand this is draft relative!

I like the player, I just do not love the player, I want to love the player @4.

I really don't think there is a player in this draft that represents elite ability. Every player has just as many weaknesses, if not more, than they do strengths.
 

Rogerthat12

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I really don't think there is a player in this draft that represents elite ability. Every player has just as many weaknesses, if not more, than they do strengths.

I think that is the problem with this draft, each of the top 5 has something or it is a question of positional value.

You can tell Marinelli was liking some Bosa in that one clip.
 
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texbumthelife

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I think that is the problem with this draft, each of the top 5 has something or it is a question of positional value.

You can tell Marinelli was liking some Bosa in that one clip.

If Marinelli likes Bosa then it should calm a lot of the fears about his quick twitch ability.
 

Rogerthat12

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If Marinelli likes Bosa then it should calm a lot of the fears about his quick twitch ability.

I definitely think Bosa is in consideration @4 and that they like the player regardless of a report that says otherwise.

Garrett was looking on earnestly in that video while Marinelli was working him out hard.

We know Marinelli covets flexibility as well and Bosa can be moved around the DL.
 

gimmesix

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No, it's because Bosa isn't a RE or edge rusher. We have a player @ LE already who is developing nicely, so we move him to RE to accommodate another strong side end; need. Or sign Hardy who would likely provide a better pass rush than Bosa as a rook, and see if Gregory matures on the weed smoking until the league eventually changes policy.

I don't know why we act like moving Lawrence to RE is a big deal. When he was drafted, that's where he was earmarked to play. He had a sack in each of the playoff games at RE. Then, we moved him to LE to accommodate Hardy.
If Dallas feels Bosa is the best player, then I don't see the "need" to draft him being any different than the "need" to draft Romo's replacement. It all comes down to reaching for me if you are talking about drafting for need. Considering Bosa is generally rated among the top four prospects available in this draft, I don't see any reach there.

More of a case could be made that they are reaching for need if they draft a QB at 4 and don't have one rated in the top tier with Bosa. We're not drafting for the future by reaching for anyone.
 

rags747

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I'm down with Bosa for our pick or trading back and grabbing Elliott for a dominant running game and then trading back in the 1st for Lynch or Treadwell.
 

gimmesix

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If Marinelli likes Bosa then it should calm a lot of the fears about his quick twitch ability.

I don't think Marinelli worries about quick twitch like fans seem to do. I believe he understands a lot of different factors go into a player being able to put pressure on the QB and be disruptive in the backfield.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Anybody else find themselves coming around on Bosa? The more I read, the more I feel this guy is somehow getting underrated. It doesn't seem to be hurting his public draft projections, but he's universally listed as a top-5 player and he's pretty much the guy nobody seems to want. The more it goes on, the more it gets me thinking he's a value player who's not getting respect because he lacks flash in terms of sack numbers. It's kind of got me rooting for him, Ohio State or no.

It's really simple. He lacks sack number for the same reason Haley did in 92-95, teams gameplanned entirely around stopping him. Watch the tape and even the game where he supposedly did poorly, MSU, you seem him routinely double teamed and sometimes triple teamed. OSU just didn't have Tolbert and Jeffcoat on the other side to take advantage. Nonetheless he still got 70 pressures in 10 games per PFF tracking despite the extra attention.

When he was getting more balanced pass pro with Spence on the other side he destroyed the competition his sophomore year.

He is a speed to power player like Hardy, Allen, Strahan, Smith and White. He put up 28 in the press with 34" arms and is only 20 years old. I find it interesting that people think certain players who look like Hercules coming out like Tyron Smith its understood he will still grow and get bigger at the same age yet Bosa is supposedly maxed out.

I think more than a little has to do with the Broaddus inspired groupthink such as the good vs great romantic oversimplification and Greg Ellis comparisons. He spouted that for a month.

If you go to draftbreakdown.com and see a dozen games yourself in a couple of hours. It's obvious what teams did to try and stop him and its obvious he was still a gamechanger.
 

BigStar

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I don't know why we act like moving Lawrence to RE is a big deal. When he was drafted, that's where he was earmarked to play. He had a sack in each of the playoff games at RE. Then, we moved him to LE to accommodate Hardy.
If Dallas feels Bosa is the best player, then I don't see the "need" to draft him being any different than the "need" to draft Romo's replacement. It all comes down to reaching for me if you are talking about drafting for need. Considering Bosa is generally rated among the top four prospects available in this draft, I don't see any reach there.

More of a case could be made that they are reaching for need if they draft a QB at 4 and don't have one rated in the top tier with Bosa. We're not drafting for the future by reaching for anyone.

I don't believe in the 4 year window for Romo, so believe Wentz (trade up) and even Goff would be smarter picks than Bosa. We saw what this team is capable of on offense without a legit QB...4-12. I love Romo btw and feel his prime was wasted by Garrett and JJ.
 

gimmesix

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He is a speed to power player like Hardy, Allen, Strahan, Smith and White. He put up 28 in the press with 34" arms and is only 20 years old. I find it interesting that people think certain players who look like Hercules coming out like Tyron Smith its understood he will still grow and get bigger at the same age yet Bosa is supposedly maxed out.

I agree that he's in the mold of those kinds of players. His game isn't going to be built on just taking the outside rush and beating his man to the QB, but I don't know why it seems that some believe that's the only way to get pressure in the NFL. Some act like his type of game has never translated to production in this league when we've seen quite a bit of that.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I don't believe in the 4 year window for Romo, so believe Wentz (trade up) and even Goff would be smarter picks than Bosa. We saw what this team is capable of on offense without a legit QB...4-12. I love Romo btw and feel his prime was wasted by Garrett and JJ.

I don't know how to evaluate QBs because they are so hard to project. If one is indeed a franchise type then sure but you don't ever want to reach. I think that people acting like they are making an informed opinion regarding Wentz or Goff and insisting on one are fooling themselves.
 

BigStar

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I don't know how to evaluate QBs because they are so hard to project. If one is indeed a franchise type then sure but you don't ever want to reach. I think that people acting like they are making an informed opinion regarding Wentz or Goff and insisting on one are fooling themselves.

Fair, I'm no scout either. I see this as the best opportunity to "see" if Romo can work his magic again but preparing for the future at the same time. Romo's health and age is the reason I sway QB.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I agree that he's in the mold of those kinds of players. His game isn't going to be built on just taking the outside rush and beating his man to the QB, but I don't know why it seems that some believe that's the only way to get pressure in the NFL. Some act like his type of game has never translated to production in this league when we've seen quite a bit of that.

Mack and Miller are what people want but there is more than one way to skin a cat as you say. I personally think Bosa will eat Moses, Johnson, and Pugh for breakfast.
 

gimmesix

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I don't believe in the 4 year window for Romo, so believe Wentz (trade up) and even Goff would be smarter picks than Bosa. We saw what this team is capable of on offense without a legit QB...4-12. I love Romo btw and feel his prime was wasted by Garrett and JJ.

I don't know if I believe the four-year window for Romo, either, but I also don't believe we need to trade up for Wentz or reach for a QB in this draft to find a replacement for Romo. I don't have a problem with Dallas taking a QB at 4 if they believe one is worth the pick, but I don't see it as the end of the world if Dallas doesn't do that. There will be other opportunities to get Romo's replacement.

A lot of the QB love here seems to stink of desperation instead of wanting Dallas to make the best pick it possibly can ... "if we don't get Wentz we're doomed." Really?
 

BigStar

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I don't know if I believe the four-year window for Romo, either, but I also don't believe we need to trade up for Wentz or reach for a QB in this draft to find a replacement for Romo. I don't have a problem with Dallas taking a QB at 4 if they believe one is worth the pick, but I don't see it as the end of the world if Dallas doesn't do that. There will be other opportunities to get Romo's replacement.

A lot of the QB love here seems to stink of desperation instead of wanting Dallas to make the best pick it possibly can ... "if we don't get Wentz we're doomed." Really?

No, not my intention at all. Would be happy with Goff at 4 too; just think Wentz is the better of the two and trading up for him would be the only way to secure him, etc. If Ramsey is there @ 4, it would be a hard decision admittedly. I would go with Goff.
 
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