News: Cowboys restructure Fredrick's and Tyron's contracts

[GhostOfPelluer]

Free agents don't care what your cap situation looks like. If you offer them more money, they'll sign with you.

 

[Nightman]

Free agents don't care what your cap situation looks like. If you offer them more money, they'll sign with you.

They only have a limited window and limited time......DAL won't even get a call to make a pitch

And if they do get a meeting, nobody but Greg Hardy is going for short, incentive laden deals

 

[Alexander]

Free agents don't care what your cap situation looks like. If you offer them more money, they'll sign with you.

That is like going out clubbing in a burlap sack and expecting everyone to hit on you.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

That is like going out clubbing in a burlap sack and expecting everyone to hit on you.

That would be an improvement in my case

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

They only have a limited window and limited time......DAL won't even get a call to make a pitch

And if they do get a meeting, nobody but Greg Hardy is going for short, incentive laden deals

All Jerry has to do is let an agent know he's interested, then money talks.

 

[Alexander]

All Jerry has to do is let an agent know he's interested, then money talks.

More like the agent says "thanks!" and then leaks the info to a media type who says Dallas is "interested" and hope it inflates his deal.

 

[Nightman]

The other part is that if they are prepared to lose Leary and Williams, they are going to want the compensatory value from them so that will limit activity regardless.

The comp angle is real but if they get a top SDE in FA that is a 1st round pick they can spend on a CB or WR or OJ Howard instead

They will cancel out their Leary pick but TWill could still get a 4th and Carr, Church, JCrawford, TMcClain, Gachkar and DMC can gt us to the 4th comp picks

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

More like the agent says "thanks!" and then leaks the info to a media type who says Dallas is "interested" and hope it inflates his deal.

The point you are making here and my point aren't mutually exclusive

 

[Nightman]

All Jerry has to do is let an agent know he's interested, then money talks.

And our visible cap space is mute....we are swipe left

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

And our visible cap space is mute....we are swipe left

I don't buy it. What our cap looks like on the surface means nothing to a potential FA. 9 out of 10 will take the best deal they can get. If Dallas offers that deal, they'll sign it. You can't honestly believe that if Jerry tells Melvin Ingram's agent that we'll give him 5 years at the top of the market with a top of the market guarantee that Ingram's agent will be like "nope, you don't have enough cap space". And if the question comes up Jerry says not to worry about it and the deal is done.

 

[Nightman]

I don't buy it. What our cap looks like on the surface means nothing to a potential FA. 9 out of 10 will take the best deal they can get. If Dallas offers that deal, they'll sign it. You can't honestly believe that if Jerry tells Melvin Ingram's agent that we'll give him 5 years at the top of the market with a top of the market guarantee that Ingram's agent will be like "nope, you don't have enough cap space". And if the question comes up Jerry says not to worry about it and the deal is done.

If you don't think it is the number one thing agents look at that is a mistake

I am not saying it can't be overcome... it is just an unnecessary impediment

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

If you don't think it is the number one thing agents look at that is a mistake

I am not saying it can't be overcome... it is just an unnecessary impediment

I have no problem with your crusade to clear cap space whenever you can. And when an agent is developing a strategy for his player he would be dumb not to look at cap space. But the combine is more than the underwear olympics. Agents talk with front office types and try to gauge initial interest in their clients. It's become almost the unofficial kickoff of free agency in that regard. On the flip side, agents start floating numbers and front offices get a chance to see what it could cost to get in the game for guys they're interested in.

Once we get to the weekend before FA opens, agents usually know who is in the hunt and who isn't. And it is about communication from the front offices and the dollars for their client, it's not about cap space.

 

[Nightman]

I have no problem with your crusade to clear cap space whenever you can. And when an agent is developing a strategy for his player he would be dumb not to look at cap space. But the combine is more than the underwear olympics. Agents talk with front office types and try to gauge initial interest in their clients. It's become almost the unofficial kickoff of free agency in that regard. On the flip side, agents start floating numbers and front offices get a chance to see what it could cost to get in the game for guys they're interested in.

Once we get to the weekend before FA opens, agents usually know who is in the hunt and who isn't. And it is about communication from the front offices and the dollars for their client, it's not about cap space.

I agree with what you are saying but JJones like to appear cap poor to help his negotiations.... it keeps him out of the bidding wars you are talking about......... if SJones has to re-do a deal every time an agent calls with a new deal it gets old quick...........YOU AIN'T BROKE......

If DAL maxed out March 1st and entered FA with 50m in real cap space the sports world would crap themselves.......every article and TV show would be about who DAL will spend this windfall on and every FA would be linked to DAL.....it would box SJ and JJ into a corner PR-wise and they would have to sign an Ingram or CJones or Berry

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

I agree with what you are saying but JJones like to appear cap poor to help his negotiations.... it keeps him out of the bidding wars you are talking about......... if SJones has to re-do a deal every time an agent calls with a new deal it gets old quick...........YOU AIN'T BROKE......

If DAL maxed out March 1st and entered FA with 50m in real cap space the sports world would crap themselves.......every article and TV show would be about who DAL will spend this windfall on and every FA would be linked to DAL.....it would box SJ and JJ into a corner PR-wise and they would have to sign an Ingram or CJones or Berry

I get the logic, my argument isn't against that point. Although I find it hard to believe Jerry wouldn't revel in the free publicity that kind of situation would offer. But he's not a robot as evidence to Stephen and McClay's roles so it's possible he uses it as a PR move to keep the fanbase at bay.

I'm just saying if the FO wants a FA, the current available cap space isn't going to matter. They'll make it work. And it's not going to hurt negotiations.

 

[Hoofbite]

Except they would have had to restructure other deals to get under the cap. That had shorter length and less total value. So now they are restructuring multiple people for less total gain and less certainty to want to keep him.

No....I suspect the team would not have had so easy a go at it.

Yes. they would have had to actually manage their cap. If that means that they don't take a chance on Greg Hardy would the team be any worse off? If that means they didn't keep going to the wishing well with Rolando McClain, would the team be that much worse off? Go to Brandon Carr 1 year earlier with an ultimatum or just cut him after 2014. Had they never restructured him they could have sent him packing after 2 years and the avoided cap spending for Carr would have covered every dollar they gained by restructuring Tyron for the past 3 years and then some.

There are a number of ways the team could have gotten it done. Most teams do not restructure and they are still able to operate with multiple times the amount of free space that Dallas does AFTER Dallas restructures. The only reason they needed to restructure anyone is because they have been restructuring in the past. If you look at the restructured bonus column on Spotrac, you can see it. Dallas has $24M of it's 2017 cap allocated to the restructuring of prior seasons. Now, I added these numbers up a little quickly so pardon any possible errors, but it looks like the total across the entire league is $90M in 2017. In fact, almost half the league has $0 for this line item. The only team that has a number close to Dallas is Pittsburgh. They're currently at $14M.

It was never a prerequisite to restructure, but since the team has been doing it for the last decade or so, it has become one. It's a crutch for Dallas, always has been, and at this point they aren't even restructuring to create a bunch of space. They're restructuring to get cap compliant. They restructured $17M this year and they still need another $7M just to cover their previous restructures. Even if they did, they would still be bottom 5 in available cap space. This all coming after 3-4 seasons where they really haven't even been that active in free agency. The biggest contract given to a free agent over the past 3-4 seasons was given to Cedric Thornton. 4 years, $17M.

The Tyron aspect is just one of the consequences of restructuring every single year. You reach a point where you are restructuring for the sake of regaining space lost to previous restructures. In Tyron's case, also happens to be that the team lost what would have effectively been the biggest steal of a contract for an elite FA LT the league has ever seen.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Yes. they would have had to actually manage their cap. If that means that they don't take a chance on Greg Hardy would the team be any worse off? If that means they didn't keep going to the wishing well with Rolando McClain, would the team be that much worse off? Go to Brandon Carr 1 year earlier with an ultimatum or just cut him after 2014. Had they never restructured him they could have sent him packing after 2 years and the avoided cap spending for Carr would have covered every dollar they gained by restructuring Tyron for the past 3 years and then some.

There are a number of ways the team could have gotten it done. Most teams do not restructure and they are still able to operate with multiple times the amount of free space that Dallas does AFTER Dallas restructures. The only reason they needed to restructure anyone is because they have been restructuring in the past. If you look at the restructured bonus column on Spotrac, you can see it. Dallas has $24M of it's 2017 cap allocated to the restructuring of prior seasons. Now, I added these numbers up a little quickly so pardon any possible errors, but it looks like the total across the entire league is $90M in 2017. In fact, almost half the league has $0 for this line item. The only team that has a number close to Dallas is Pittsburgh. They're currently at $14M.

It was never a prerequisite to restructure, but since the team has been doing it for the last decade or so, it has become one. It's a crutch for Dallas, always has been, and at this point they aren't even restructuring to create a bunch of space. They're restructuring to get cap compliant. They restructured $17M this year and they still need another $7M just to cover their previous restructures. Even if they did, they would still be bottom 5 in available cap space. This all coming after 3-4 seasons where they really haven't even been that active in free agency. The biggest contract given to a free agent over the past 3-4 seasons was given to Cedric Thornton. 4 years, $17M.

The Tyron aspect is just one of the consequences of restructuring every single year. You reach a point where you are restructuring for the sake of regaining space lost to previous restructures. In Tyron's case, also happens to be that the team lost what would have effectively been the biggest steal of a contract for an elite FA LT the league has ever seen.

Your argument is that the team with less flexibility is better off with the team that had more flexibility. Quite frankly that's just dumb.

 

[Hoofbite]

Your argument is that the team with less flexibility is better off with the team that had more flexibility. Quite frankly that's just dumb.

Every team has the ability to restructure. Whether or not they do restructure isn't an indication of the flexibility of any given team. They can restructure as much or as little as they want, and they can restructure any time they want. Whatever flexibility you think restructuring offers, it's offered to all teams.

Just so we're clear, Dallas restructures every year to avoid being OVER the cap and we're going to somehow call that, "flexibility"? How would you characterize a team being $40M under the cap while having only restructured a minimal amount over the last 4-5 years? Is that more, or less, flexible to you? How about being just $5M under the cap while having never restructured? Less? More?

The only thing restructuring does is give you cap space. If that's flexibility, then every team with more cap space than Dallas has more of it. If the amount of restructuring a team can do is a measuring stick for how much flexibility a team has, then any team has hasn't previously utilized this mechanism would seemingly have more flexibility than Dallas.

Less cap space + lesser ability to create cap space = flexibility?

Are we talking about the same thing?