Crawford versus Hatcher

[Galian Beast]

I think Crawford is competing with Coleman and Spears considerably more than he is with Hatcher. Coleman and Spears are the ones far most likely to be in jeopardy of losing playing time. Realistically, it's entirely possible Coleman may be the one on his way out when the final cuts are made. Hatcher and Crawford will both get their share of opportunities to rush the passers.

I just really can't imagine both Coleman and Spears being here. I mean it's hard for me to imagine either of them being here.

The Cowboys are going with you here, and you have two players who are extremely one dimensional, and somewhat pricey for what they offer.

I also don't know if we necessarily need a lot of defensive linemen, even with a rotation going on.

We're going to move to the nickel quite a bit, and the first person who gets dropped off is a defensive end.

I think Crawford could be a first year starter. He will be in the mix. When you combine him, Ratliff, and Hatcher, I think you'll get a much better pass rush from your line.

 

[jblaze2004]

He has a horrible rating on madden

yes he is......but he can get after the qb when i user him....lol...his fitness moves are the highest of all our d-linemen.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Crawford is much more of a finished product than Hatcher was when Hatcher was drafted. Hatcher probably had bigger upside, but had to overcome being a small school player (lesser competition, not as good coaching) and a position and scheme change.






YR

 

[Deep_Freeze]

People don't understand that we have a rotation at 3-4 defensive end, and that rotation works for the most part.

If you look at Darnell Docket and Calais Campbell, these guys played in over 1000 snaps.

Awesome.

That's not what we do though. And our run defense was MUCH better than theirs.

If you combine our production at DE, you would see that the rotation works when you compare it to one guy playing all the snaps.

That being said we were looking to upgrade this offseason.

I wouldn't be surprised if both Spears and Coleman are replaced.

Somehow people aren't expecting change here.

Hatcher, Crawford, Lissemore, Josh Brent Price

Really I only expect either Spears or Coleman to remain, but not both. With my guess, they're both probably gone.

Well we probably rotate out of necessity more than anything else, but it does work out well for us. I would like to see both Spears and Coleman gone, but in order to do that, the young guys including Geathers, would really have to step up cause those 2 guys had over 800 snaps between them.

Spears is younger than Coleman, but Coleman still played better than Spears, especially against the run.

I would feel more confident in keeping the young hungry guys than holding onto either Spears or Coleman, but the only way we could get rid of both is if Crawford and Lissemore can handle around 500 snaps each or Geathers makes a huge step forward which either case could be just hope instead of reality.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I figure alot of people are ignoring how successful we have been with finding 3-4 DEs later in the draft and its something that we need to take advantage of since it is probably the main position that we have been able to do this.

Guys such as Canty, Bowen, Hatcher, and now Lissemore represent this team getting value at 3-4 DE and being able to use higher picks on more premium positions.

With our later round success in this area, I see no reason for us to draft a 3-4 DE early in the draft and look for Crawford to fit right in with our past success at the position.

That's an interesting point.

The Cowboys seem to be looking for these guys who aren't your typical 3-4 DE's, because they aren't heavy enough and they're a little too heavy for a 4-3 DE.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Crawford is much more of a finished product than Hatcher was when Hatcher was drafted. Hatcher probably had bigger upside, but had to overcome being a small school player (lesser competition, not as good coaching) and a position and scheme change.

YR

That's a good explanation of the differences between the two.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't see both Spears and Coleman being released.

 

[visionary]

The Cowboys seem to be going for an ultra-light/ultra-fast 3-4 front.

Of course they don't employ at 325lb+ NT, and now they're headed to 285-290lb DE's as opposed to the typical 300lb+ DE's you see on a lot of 3-4's.

I like it.

I'd rather see slightly smaller/faster dlinemen.

smaller DL with smaller ILBs in the 3-4 = recipe for disaster IMO

 

[kmd24]

Oh, so you were grading him as a player based off his best year. Your GM tips his cap to you.

Looks like he's being judged on his most recent year.

What about the other 5? 12 sacks in 6 years. What a terror.

By all means, let's judge a small school project on what he did early on in his career when he was still developing.

Just to remind you, prior to 2011, Stephen Bowen came in primarily on passing downs and limited Hatcher's snaps. Now that Hatcher is getting more of those snaps, he's doing something with them.

 

[TheCount]

I don't see both Spears and Coleman being released.

I don't think Spears is going anywhere. Coleman is as good as gone however.

However, I gotta disagree with the whole "smaller quicker 3-4 front". We already think we're pulling the wool over the eyes of every other team in the league by operating with a light NT, no need to push it trying to reinvent the 3-4. I don't see the benefit of going smaller.

The Colts tried that, thinking speed kills, and it hasn't worked out so great for them.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

smaller DL with smaller ILBs in the 3-4 = recipe for disaster IMO

It may.

It may not.

When this team was a 4-3 team under Jimmy and later, it was a light-weight defensive line and maybe the lightest linebackers in the NFL... But it worked.

I understand the point about maybe needing/wanting bigger players but with the amount of substituting the Cowboys do, it helps keep the smaller/faster player from wearing out.

 

[visionary]

It may.

It may not.

When this team was a 4-3 team under Jimmy and later, it was a light-weight defensive line and maybe the lightest linebackers in the NFL... But it worked.

I understand the point about maybe needing/wanting bigger players but with the amount of substituting the Cowboys do, it helps keep the smaller/faster player from wearing out.

the jimmy defense was a 4-3 in an era where many of our back-ups would have started on many teams because there was no cap ie great great depth so we could rotate players on the DL and not skip a beat

i do agree that we need speed on defense

philly just has so much team speed that they took us to school

however, i dont think that going lighter on the DL and ILB (which are the inner core of the 3-4) is a good idea because that is where we need to be stout to allow the more speedy guys to flow to the ball

JMO

 

[Stautner]

I'd love to see Crawford or Lissmore beat out Coleman for the staring nod.

That 1st down pass defense/lack of pass rush is bothersome.

I think Coleman is going to have a hard time even making the team. We saw more and more of Lissemore last year, and Spears may be healthier, and Geathers may be able to contribute some, and we drafted Crawford ......

 

[MichaelWinicki]

the jimmy defense was a 4-3 in an era where many of our back-ups would have started on many teams because there was no cap ie great great depth so we could rotate players on the DL and not skip a beat

i do agree that we need speed on defense

philly just has so much team speed that they took us to school

however, i dont think that going lighter on the DL and ILB (which are the inner core of the 3-4) is a good idea because that is where we need to be stout to allow the more speedy guys to flow to the ball

JMO

Very true.

But every year it seems the needle is pushing more and more into the passing area, where the skills set of being able to cover, even from the ILB position is becoming critical.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

the jimmy defense was a 4-3 in an era where many of our back-ups would have started on many teams because there was no cap ie great great depth so we could rotate players on the DL and not skip a beat

i do agree that we need speed on defense

philly just has so much team speed that they took us to school

however, i dont think that going lighter on the DL and ILB (which are the inner core of the 3-4) is a good idea because that is where we need to be stout to allow the more speedy guys to flow to the ball

JMO

Well as long as you have a rotation, you can get away with the lighter players but if you expect them to stand up to 1000 snaps in a season, they better be heavier.

By most accounts, Crawford is solid against the run even at his lighter weight, but we also have to look at the future for him cause some have already said he is like 285 right now. JJ Watt is only listed at 288 as a 5 tech, so thats not a bad weight for Crawford.

I'm not as worried about our rotation on the DL cause of our history of producing guys there, and really even in the era of the cap, we can produce a good rotation of guys with later round draft picks in that area like we have been doing since the drafting of Canty and TRat in 2005.

 

[The Realist]

smaller DL with smaller ILBs in the 3-4 = recipe for disaster IMO

The best 3-4 ILB tandem in the league is Wills/Bowman in SF who are 240 and 242. Justin Smith is an 11 year vet 3-4 DE at 285.

They really got blown off the field last year.

That is all.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The best 3-4 ILB tandem in the league is Wills/Bowman in SF who are 240 and 242. Justin Smith is an 11 year vet 3-4 DE at 285.

They really got blown off the field last year.

That is all.

Great example.

 

[NorTex]

Hatcher got screwed when Wade brought in his pet cat, Igor. :bang2:

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Haven't read this whole thread, but why are we comparing Hatch and Crawford anyway. Hatch is going to be on the weak side, and Crawford was drafted to be on the strong side.

If anything, it should be Crawford versus whoever is better between Lissemore, Coleman, or maybe Spears if they switch him to strong side.

 

[theogt]

Haven't read this whole thread, but why are we comparing Hatch and Crawford anyway. Hatch is going to be on the weak side, and Crawford was drafted to be on the strong side.

If anything, it should be Crawford versus whoever is better between Lissemore, Coleman, or maybe Spears if they switch him to strong side.

Crawford worked solely on the right in the rookie mini-camp, I believe. But he mentioned he would likely be learning both.