Dak a Tier-2 QB per NFL Coaches and Execs

CowboyFrog

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Seriously ? Spin much ? It’s people like you who use the word “hate”. There are a lot of us on this site who simply believed their eyes and saw Dak as an average QB and bus driver who was never worth anywhere near the elite money he was holding out for. And now it seems that professional talent evaluators agree that he is not close to elite. But there’s always a winner like you shrieking about Dak Haters whenever someone just tells the truth about Dak.

Wait.... so that's a spin but you saying they are confirming your bus driver evaluation with what they said is straight talk? Ok hate is a strong word but I'm pretty sure your reaching a lot trying to SPIN that ranking into he is a bus driver to those who evaluated him.......
 

Flamma

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I do agree it didn't help the Cowboys but also agree you can't pay a RB that kinda money.... the FAIL in that scenario was what they tried to replace him with.....I still say Zeke is great and you can't pay the RB position too much as the drop between good and great at that position is generally smaller than most positions.

All excellent points. However, if we have a good instead of great RB in 2016 I don't believe we win 13 games. In al reality we could have beat them for 14 wins had the Cowboys wanted to in week 17. Dallas had a balanced attack and the running aspect was off the charts. I do think they overpaid Zeke. A contract like Henry got would be ideal.
 

Reverend Conehead

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Seriously ? Spin much ? It’s people like you who use the word “hate”. There are a lot of us on this site who simply believed their eyes and saw Dak as an average QB and bus driver who was never worth anywhere near the elite money he was holding out for. And now it seems that professional talent evaluators agree that he is not close to elite. But there’s always a winner like you shrieking about Dak Haters whenever someone just tells the truth that everybody else seems to be able to see about Dak.

Yes, it's bizarre. It would seem that some fans think, "He's good, but that's too much money" somehow equals "I hate Dak." Could have fooled me. I thought those two sentences had very different meanings.
 

CowboyFrog

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Yes, it's bizarre. It would seem that some fans think, "He's good, but that's too much money" somehow equals "I hate Dak." Could have fooled me. I thought those two sentences had very different meanings.

i thought "he is an average bus driver" and "he is good but that's too much" had very different meanings......
 

Redball Express

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On the heels of NFL players ranking Dak as the 46th best player in the league, The Athletic recently published a ranking of NFL quarterbacks based on interviews with NFL coaches and executives.

https://***BLOCKED***/1945894/2020/...coaches-and-evaluators-rank-the-nfl-starters/

According to the men whose job it is to coach and evaluate NFL players, Dak is the 12th-best QB in the league and in the second tier of quarterbacks. This ranking appears to be fairly consistent with the players' ranking of Dak.

If the NFL players, coaches, and executives rank Dak somewhere in the second-tier (e.g., no. 12 quarterback in the league), why do Dak and his agent, Todd France, continue to demand elite, top-of-the-market money?

Leverage.

Contracts are all about leverage. Unlike most other quarterbacks, Dak was willing to play out his full rookie deal before accepting a fair Cowboys' offer. This gave him leverage over the team, and he and France tried to maximize that leverage during contract negotiations.

Fortunately, the Cowboys didn't flinch. However, that's not to say the Cowboys handled this perfectly.

Here are four things the Cowboys could've done differently:

1. Don't set a bad precedent by signing Dak's bro, Zeke, to a record contract with two years left on his rookie deal. This signaled to Dak and France that Stephen Jones' tough talk about not setting the market was a bluff. I think Dak and France tried - and failed - to call this bluff right up until the July 15 deadline. If the Cowboys had played hard ball with Zeke, then Dak and France's approach might've been different.

2. Sign Dak after year 3 as soon as he became eligible for a new contract. This one is a little bit murky, as we don't know for sure how much the Cowboys offered last offseason. If the offer was fair (i.e., Carson Wentz money), then shame on Dak. If not, shame on the Cowboys. It takes two to tango. What we do know is that Dak pressed his leverage after finishing year 4, and the Cowboys should've tried to avoid that outcome, within reason.

3. Apply the non-exclusive franchise tag. The Cowboys could've saved several millions dollars in cap space by applying the non-exclusive franchise tag to Dak instead of the exclusive franchise tag. Additionally, allowing Dak and France to negotiate with other teams would've showed them Dak's true market value instead of his leverage-maximizing value that applies only to the Cowboys. Even if Dak had signed a market-setting tender with another team (a longshot proposition), then the Cowboys could've entered the season with Andy Dalton under center and four first-round picks over the next two drafts. Not a bad deal.

4. Rescind the exclusive franchise tag after free agency/the draft. We know that the Cowboys screwed up by applying the exclusive franchise tag, but they then compounded that mistake by not rescinding it at the right time. What's the right time, you ask? It's after most teams have blown their cap space in free agency and filled their quarterback roster spots through the draft. I've analyzed this before, and if the Cowboys had timed this right, the only team who had both the cap space and the need for a quarterback post-free agency/draft was the Jacksonville Jaguars. Do you really think Dak would've left America's team and signed a deal with the lowly Jaguars for a couple extra million dollars? Being the face of the Cowboys is worth more than enough in endorsement money alone to recoup any lost contract dollars to a team like the Jaguars. This was the Cowboys best opportunity to claw back some of the leverage they'd given to Dak.

So, there you have it. Dak and France's approach to Dak's contract was about leverage, not about Dak's ability relative to his peers. The Cowboys gave Dak that leverage by repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot along the way. Here's hoping they don't continue to do so.
Here's where you are failing to add a stack of chips over on the Cowboys side of your leverage argument.

#1-Andy Dalton

This is a total break with traditional Cowboy roster building and equipping the QB position. I do not ever remember when the Cowboys signed a guy of equal capability as their starter.

Never. You would have to go back to Morton and Staubach to find a competition like that.

Dalton equals leverage. A lot if you want to know the reality of the situation.

#2-the pandemic

Talk about a wild card piece of leverage. Dallas knows anything can happen in this illness environment.

Having the most expensive, talented QB does not make you the favorite to win it. Having the healthiest teammates does when January arrives.

I think the saying goes..

"the best laid plans of mice and men, etc..".
 

Aviano90

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Seriously ? Spin much ? It’s people like you who use the word “hate”. There are a lot of us on this site who simply believed their eyes and saw Dak as an average QB and bus driver who was never worth anywhere near the elite money he was holding out for. And now it seems that professional talent evaluators agree that he is not close to elite. But there’s always a winner like you shrieking about Dak Haters whenever someone just tells the truth that everybody else seems to be able to see about Dak.
If that makes you feel better.
 

CowboyFrog

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Here's where you are failing to add a stack of chips over on the Cowboys side of your leverage argument.

#1-Andy Dalton

This is a total break with traditional Cowboy roster building and equipping the QB position. I do not ever remember when the Cowboys signed a guy of equal capability as their starter.

Never. You would have to go back to Morton and Staubach to find a competition like that.

Dalton equals leverage. A lot if you want to know the reality of the situation.

#2-the pandemic

Talk about a wild card piece of leverage. Dallas knows anything can happen in this illness environment.

Having the most expensive, talented QB does not make you the favorite to win it. Having the healthiest teammates does when January arrives.

I think the saying goes..


And i guess that's my main question, do you really believe that right now Dalton and Dak are level in their talent to play QB on an NFL team?

"the best laid plans of mice and men, etc..".
 

CowboyFrog

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They do. Do either one mean the person hates Dak?




no, not at all, but again you said he is good the other guy said average bus driver........if that's the same to you then we have a difference of opinion on what good and average mean.
 

Reverend Conehead

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no, not at all, but again you said he is good the other guy said average bus driver........if that's the same to you then we have a difference of opinion on what good and average mean.

We've said a lot of things about Dak. So far I've never seen anyone actually hate on him. If such a post exists, I haven't come across it. There have been a huge number of posts, mine among them, that have simply been against overpaying him. That's not hate. Now if someone posts, "He's a worthless pile of [bleep] and a scrub," I would say that qualifies as hate. But "don't pay too much" or "he's above average" or "he's a bus driver" don't qualify in my book as hate.
 

CowboyFrog

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We've said a lot of things about Dak. So far I've never seen anyone actually hate on him. If such a post exists, I haven't come across it. There have been a huge number of posts, mine among them, that have simply been against overpaying him. That's not hate. Now if someone posts, "He's a worthless pile of [bleep] and a scrub," I would say that qualifies as hate. But "don't pay too much" or "he's above average" or "he's a bus driver" don't qualify in my book as hate.



I said as much, I was just pointing out that you cleaned up what he said about Dak a little, again I have no problem with people not liking our current players or questioning what they are worth, its your right as a fan absolutely. but lets not act like "Man he is good but that's a lot of money" is the same as "he is an average bus driver at best" because some fans will defend the player as that's their right as a fan...
 

CowboyRoy

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Seriously ? Spin much ? It’s people like you who use the word “hate”. There are a lot of us on this site who simply believed their eyes and saw Dak as an average QB and bus driver who was never worth anywhere near the elite money he was holding out for. And now it seems that professional talent evaluators agree that he is not close to elite. But there’s always a winner like you shrieking about Dak Haters whenever someone just tells the truth that everybody else seems to be able to see about Dak.

trolls like you said dak was backup material. Then it was average. You have all been proven wrong.
And what kind of moron expects a qb in his first couple years to be a finished product? Lol

Is it really that important for any qb to be elite? Top 10 is just fine, which dak clearly is.

Just another qb challenged troll that doesn’t get qb play, or football in general.

bububububububut....dak isn’t elite!!!

waaaaaaaaaa!!!
 

CowboyRoy

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On the heels of NFL players ranking Dak as the 46th best player in the league, The Athletic recently published a ranking of NFL quarterbacks based on interviews with NFL coaches and executives.

https://***BLOCKED***/1945894/2020/...coaches-and-evaluators-rank-the-nfl-starters/

According to the men whose job it is to coach and evaluate NFL players, Dak is the 12th-best QB in the league and in the second tier of quarterbacks. This ranking appears to be fairly consistent with the players' ranking of Dak.

If the NFL players, coaches, and executives rank Dak somewhere in the second-tier (e.g., no. 12 quarterback in the league), why do Dak and his agent, Todd France, continue to demand elite, top-of-the-market money?

Leverage.

Contracts are all about leverage. Unlike most other quarterbacks, Dak was willing to play out his full rookie deal before accepting a fair Cowboys' offer. This gave him leverage over the team, and he and France tried to maximize that leverage during contract negotiations.

Fortunately, the Cowboys didn't flinch. However, that's not to say the Cowboys handled this perfectly.

Here are four things the Cowboys could've done differently:

1. Don't set a bad precedent by signing Dak's bro, Zeke, to a record contract with two years left on his rookie deal. This signaled to Dak and France that Stephen Jones' tough talk about not setting the market was a bluff. I think Dak and France tried - and failed - to call this bluff right up until the July 15 deadline. If the Cowboys had played hard ball with Zeke, then Dak and France's approach might've been different.

2. Sign Dak after year 3 as soon as he became eligible for a new contract. This one is a little bit murky, as we don't know for sure how much the Cowboys offered last offseason. If the offer was fair (i.e., Carson Wentz money), then shame on Dak. If not, shame on the Cowboys. It takes two to tango. What we do know is that Dak pressed his leverage after finishing year 4, and the Cowboys should've tried to avoid that outcome, within reason.

3. Apply the non-exclusive franchise tag. The Cowboys could've saved several millions dollars in cap space by applying the non-exclusive franchise tag to Dak instead of the exclusive franchise tag. Additionally, allowing Dak and France to negotiate with other teams would've showed them Dak's true market value instead of his leverage-maximizing value that applies only to the Cowboys. Even if Dak had signed a market-setting tender with another team (a longshot proposition), then the Cowboys could've entered the season with Andy Dalton under center and four first-round picks over the next two drafts. Not a bad deal.

4. Rescind the exclusive franchise tag after free agency/the draft. We know that the Cowboys screwed up by applying the exclusive franchise tag, but they then compounded that mistake by not rescinding it at the right time. What's the right time, you ask? It's after most teams have blown their cap space in free agency and filled their quarterback roster spots through the draft. I've analyzed this before, and if the Cowboys had timed this right, the only team who had both the cap space and the need for a quarterback post-free agency/draft was the Jacksonville Jaguars. Do you really think Dak would've left America's team and signed a deal with the lowly Jaguars for a couple extra million dollars? Being the face of the Cowboys is worth more than enough in endorsement money alone to recoup any lost contract dollars to a team like the Jaguars. This was the Cowboys best opportunity to claw back some of the leverage they'd given to Dak.

So, there you have it. Dak and France's approach to Dak's contract was about leverage, not about Dak's ability relative to his peers. The Cowboys gave Dak that leverage by repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot along the way. Here's hoping they don't continue to do so.

2nd tier and climbing. Dak trolls lose again.
 

CowboyRoy

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Seems fair and 12th is about in the middle of where most will rank him.
Most idiots you mean?

12th is about the lowest I have seen on any poll this year.

are you saying some moron has dak ranked #24? Lol

yah, you maybe. :lmao2::lmao2::lmao::lmao::lmao:
 

InTheZone

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Most idiots you mean?

12th is about the lowest I have seen on any poll this year.

are you saying some moron has dak ranked #24? Lol

yah, you maybe. :lmao2::lmao2::lmao::lmao::lmao:
always resorting to insults like a trollish child.

You're assuming people have Dak ranked as #1. When I said "in the middle where most will rank him" I was referring to somewhere around the 7-17 range. You somehow actually believe my range was 1-24, lol, what "random moron" would have him rated #1? lol
 

blueblood70

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always resorting to insults like a trollish child.

You're assuming people have Dak ranked as #1. When I said "in the middle where most will rank him" I was referring to somewhere around the 7-17 range. You somehow actually believe my range was 1-24, lol, what "random moron" would have him rated #1? lol
you need to use the quotes in your reply or others dont know who you are replying too,,
 

kskboys

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trolls like you said dak was backup material. Then it was average. You have all been proven wrong.
And what kind of moron expects a qb in his first couple years to be a finished product? Lol

Is it really that important for any qb to be elite? Top 10 is just fine, which dak clearly is.

Just another qb challenged troll that doesn’t get qb play, or football in general.

bububububububut....dak isn’t elite!!!

waaaaaaaaaa!!!
"Dak will never throw for 400 yards."

"If Dak could just throw for 300 yards we'd be fine, but he can't so he sucks."

The Dak haters made ton of statements like this not long ago, and you'd think they'd at least have enough nerve to admit they were wrong on that part of it.
 
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