Dak a Tier-2 QB per NFL Coaches and Execs

Diehardblues

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The one year deal is actually exactly what we needed to truly analyze Dak. At the end of this season, we will either pay Dak 30-34 mil or 35-38 mil, because by that time we should know.
So what happens if we don’t get a full season in. And don’t get the full look or team validation we’re looking for?
 

Corso

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So what happens if we don’t get a full season in. And don’t get the full look or team validation we’re looking for?
Very poignant and tough question. I don't think answers are to be found here, but a very good discussion point for the FO.

It will probably depend on what happens to the salary cap next year.
 

CouchCoach

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So what happens if we don’t get a full season in. And don’t get the full look or team validation we’re looking for?
The Cowboys aren't the only team with ?'s with coaches, players and GM's. At least they have some history with this player.
 

Diehardblues

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And what if he doesn't even play up to that 12th ranking this season, has an off year and struggles?

Then they're faced with either trying to get him cheaper or deciding to move on. That's the beauty of this one season, all of the options are still there.

And they've hired a QB guru type of HC so they already have the guy they would want to bring another QB along, in case they choose to go that route.

On one hand, it could cost them more money to keep Prescott but on the other, considering their history with finding QB's, better to be comfortable that the coaching staff feels he's the guy before going forward.

I really don't get this "the Joneses failed" thinking because they might have just ultimately succeeded, at least at that position.
The reasoning behind the “ Jones failed “ is centered around they missed the best opportunity to get their QB signed. Assuming you believe Dak is your guy which by all accounts up until now the Cowboys power that be have concurred.

This argument isn’t based on what you or I think but our Cowboys staff and ownership which have on every turn indicated they are“ All In “ on Dak. Even stipulated when hiring HC wanted to retain Dak and his OC Moore.

As most would argue it’s going to be more expensive based on Tag at 37.7 million and QB salaries going up again with Watson and Jackson predictably pushing for 40 million range. So, if you are sold or All In then waiting a year will only drive the price up and possibly now jeopardize whether he will return instead of stepping up now and ending the suspense.

The only reason for waiting if you are All In is to gain more public approval with those who felt you needed more team success which is a possibility as Jerry often plays to public perception. It’s quite a risk if he’s your guy.
 

Diehardblues

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The Cowboys aren't the only team with ?'s with coaches, players and GM's. At least they have some history with this player.
Your diverting the question? I’m not really interested in the other 31 teams .

I’ll rephrase . If we don’t get a full look this season how is our decision influenced?
 

Diehardblues

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Cowboy fans are looking for the easy no brainer decision stepping up to the plate to pay Dak after he takes us further than anyone else since the 90’s. Lol
 

Diehardblues

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Very poignant and tough question. I don't think answers are to be found here, but a very good discussion point for the FO.

It will probably depend on what happens to the salary cap next year.
We already know what the Tag will be. And the NFLPA new bargaining agreement begins in 2021. It’s never decreased before . And the Cap is expected to increase significantly by 2023 when the 17th game is added and why Dak only wanted a 4 year deal.

An interrupted or partial season isn’t going to provide that additional look or team validation for those who need such to support their concerns before stepping up to pay Dak.

We’ll probably need to make that leap of faith or lose him.
 

Diehardblues

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don't forget the pie. next year starts anew. but at least dak and france understand now that stephen won't back down. i doubt jerry has anything to do with it.
Right.

Im sure everyone believes Jerry has nothing to do with it.

And amazing we’re proud Cheapskate Son has possibly prevented the Cowboys from securing their Franchise QB who they have touted as being “ All In”
 

Diehardblues

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The Zeke thing was borderline embarassing. Months before the holdout he literally declared to everyone "Zeke is our boy for life" " we already have the money allocated for him" and "gurley is the starting point of the negotiations".

He then a few months later is trying to act all surprised that he held out...... (duh, you gave him artificial leverage)

If it had been a tighter run ship like Pete Carroll or Bill Bellicheck answering those same media questions they would of straight up said "no we don't do new contracts or holdouts with 2 years left, that have never been are history and never will be, next question" and guess what ? That would of been the end of it

D-law was bad as well. You had until mid July to revoke the tag, there's no way Tank goes post draft without having the surgery for fear of the tag being revoked and him basically losing an entire year in his prime. Tank was forced into a position where he either had to sign the tag because if he delayed the surgery no team would of given him more than a 1 year prove it deal anyways but of course Stephen gives him a record contract
This is a huge problem Jerry creates touting his players then trying to get tough in negotiations.
 

Corso

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We already know what the Tag will be. And the NFLPA new bargaining agreement begins in 2021. It’s never decreased before . And the Cap is expected to increase significantly by 2023 when the 17th game is added and why Dak only wanted a 4 year deal.

An interrupted or partial season isn’t going to provide that additional look or team validation for those who need such to support their concerns before stepping up to pay Dak.

We’ll probably need to make that leap of faith or lose him.
Yeah... I'd probably take the leap, myself. I've seen how the FO chooses their QB's over the years and I'm left wanting.



Edit: I just hit the Post button and had immediate regret feelings. Very hard. Very hard.
 

Diehardblues

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I would agree that if someone calls Dak a "bus driver" that he's understating Dak's abilities. IMO Dak is a better quarterback than that. I think whatever outfit evaluated him as 12th best in the league got it right. He's not elite. He's not top 5, but it's totally fair to call him good or above average. I wouldn't say calling him a "bus driver" is hating on him, but I wouldn't call that an accurate assessment either. To me "bus driver" means a quarterback who's just good enough to get the job done by getting the ball to other talented players and not screwing things up in a conservative game plan. I think that describes Trent Dilfer, but I do believe Dak is better than he was.
Yep. I think that’s a fair evaluation . I’d placed Dak in that 10-15 ranking. And salary wise high 20’s.

But the problem is our organization has touted him because of the criticism he’s received and attempted to pursuade public perception and I believe prepared to over pay him until the pushback from fans, media and critics.

I think they hold him in higher esteem than many of us do. My criticism and argument isn’t based on what I think or others but what our ownership has touted him as with never wavering he’s their guy and “ All In”.

Ultimately if you think he could be enough you’ve got to sign him or risk losing him because the alternatives are less promising. In other words we’ve made our bed with Dak. Have to sleep in it for better or worse.
 

Diehardblues

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Yeah... I'd probably take the leap, myself. I've seen how the FO chooses their QB's over the years and I'm left wanting.



Edit: I just hit the Post button and had immediate regret feelings. Very hard. Very hard.
Yea, fans want the easier decision with teams success validation.

But I think based on what our organization and ownership have touted up until now is we are All In with Dak. And we will have to lie in bed with him for better or worse.

If not then we’ve pretty much wasted what we’ve built and will have to start over unless we get lucky in the draft again. And the media has bashed us.
 

cern

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Right.

Im sure everyone believes Jerry has nothing to do with it.

And amazing we’re proud Cheapskate Son has possibly prevented the Cowboys from securing their Franchise QB who they have touted as being “ All In”
Zz-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Verdict

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On the heels of NFL players ranking Dak as the 46th best player in the league, The Athletic recently published a ranking of NFL quarterbacks based on interviews with NFL coaches and executives.

https://***BLOCKED***/1945894/2020/...coaches-and-evaluators-rank-the-nfl-starters/

According to the men whose job it is to coach and evaluate NFL players, Dak is the 12th-best QB in the league and in the second tier of quarterbacks. This ranking appears to be fairly consistent with the players' ranking of Dak.

If the NFL players, coaches, and executives rank Dak somewhere in the second-tier (e.g., no. 12 quarterback in the league), why do Dak and his agent, Todd France, continue to demand elite, top-of-the-market money?

Leverage.

Contracts are all about leverage. Unlike most other quarterbacks, Dak was willing to play out his full rookie deal before accepting a fair Cowboys' offer. This gave him leverage over the team, and he and France tried to maximize that leverage during contract negotiations.

Fortunately, the Cowboys didn't flinch. However, that's not to say the Cowboys handled this perfectly.

Here are four things the Cowboys could've done differently:

1. Don't set a bad precedent by signing Dak's bro, Zeke, to a record contract with two years left on his rookie deal. This signaled to Dak and France that Stephen Jones' tough talk about not setting the market was a bluff. I think Dak and France tried - and failed - to call this bluff right up until the July 15 deadline. If the Cowboys had played hard ball with Zeke, then Dak and France's approach might've been different.

2. Sign Dak after year 3 as soon as he became eligible for a new contract. This one is a little bit murky, as we don't know for sure how much the Cowboys offered last offseason. If the offer was fair (i.e., Carson Wentz money), then shame on Dak. If not, shame on the Cowboys. It takes two to tango. What we do know is that Dak pressed his leverage after finishing year 4, and the Cowboys should've tried to avoid that outcome, within reason.

3. Apply the non-exclusive franchise tag. The Cowboys could've saved several millions dollars in cap space by applying the non-exclusive franchise tag to Dak instead of the exclusive franchise tag. Additionally, allowing Dak and France to negotiate with other teams would've showed them Dak's true market value instead of his leverage-maximizing value that applies only to the Cowboys. Even if Dak had signed a market-setting tender with another team (a longshot proposition), then the Cowboys could've entered the season with Andy Dalton under center and four first-round picks over the next two drafts. Not a bad deal.

4. Rescind the exclusive franchise tag after free agency/the draft. We know that the Cowboys screwed up by applying the exclusive franchise tag, but they then compounded that mistake by not rescinding it at the right time. What's the right time, you ask? It's after most teams have blown their cap space in free agency and filled their quarterback roster spots through the draft. I've analyzed this before, and if the Cowboys had timed this right, the only team who had both the cap space and the need for a quarterback post-free agency/draft was the Jacksonville Jaguars. Do you really think Dak would've left America's team and signed a deal with the lowly Jaguars for a couple extra million dollars? Being the face of the Cowboys is worth more than enough in endorsement money alone to recoup any lost contract dollars to a team like the Jaguars. This was the Cowboys best opportunity to claw back some of the leverage they'd given to Dak.

So, there you have it. Dak and France's approach to Dak's contract was about leverage, not about Dak's ability relative to his peers. The Cowboys gave Dak that leverage by repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot along the way. Here's hoping they don't continue to do so.
I think this is a reasonable “take” but quite honestly, this still sort of “assumes” that Dak was willing to sign for a reasonable sum, or a reasonably inflated sum. It does not appear that is the case or Dak would be under contract a year ago. The Cowboys did not shoot themselves in the foot. Dak refused to sign even a reasonably inflated (bloated) contract.

Let’s try to keep that in perspective. Dak doesn’t seem to care if he is a Cowboy or not based on his actions over the last two off seasons.
 

Verdict

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Stevie is one of the worst public negotiators I have ever been witness to.

On Zeke: "Gurley's price is the floor"
Uh... he was the top paid RB at the time.
Constantly praising Dak, puffing him up and saying the deal will get done and NO, we're not looking in any other direction.
Got totally railroaded by DLaw...
The guy is always going to shoot his own team in the foot with that process.

Yeah, that’s not what you say in contract negotiations unless you think “validation” is more important to the player than money and even then, you can’t spend verbal validation.

Well said, as always, my friend.
 

cern

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FO said they liked zeke and signed him. Same for zack. Same for cooper. Same for tank. Perhaps certain fans think they should denigrate players first, then start negotiations. How absurd. I just edited the "b" word to fans.
 

Corso

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Yea, fans want the easier decision with teams success validation.

But I think based on what our organization and ownership have touted up until now is we are All In with Dak. And we will have to lie in bed with him for better or worse.

If not then we’ve pretty much wasted what we’ve built and will have to start over unless we get lucky in the draft again. And the media has bashed us.
Such is the way, such is the way.
 

Verdict

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So many Cowboys fans have hated him for the entire 4 years and painted him to be a totally inept QB. Here is yet another opinion that shows he is nowhere near as bad as the CowboysZone critics try to paint him to be.

Sadly, they will probably try to use a ranking of 12th as validation their over-the-top criticism was warranted.

And spare me the money BS. He was hated at $4 million over $4 years.
He might even be a little better than the 12th best QB in the league, but he is not worth ANYWHERE near what Mahommes is worth. If the Cowboys got close to that (and it appears they did) them Dak overreached.
 
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