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Dak Holding the Ball

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Furboy, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. Furboy

    Furboy Well-Known Member

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    Terribly sorry about creating another Dak thread. I know we have an awful lot of them. However, I think this explains at least part of the problem that Dak is having. In fact, this is a bit more of a Garrett thread than it is a Dak thread. Let me explain.

    The problem that I am noticing from Dak is that he is holding onto the ball far too long in the NFL. Look at what happened in Tennessee. Even in his rookie year, he had tendencies to hold onto the ball for a long time. However, that may not be solely on him. Romo would also hold onto the ball for ages, and he took a lot of abuse that could have been avoided by being a bit more quick with his balls.

    So, to me, this is more of an indictment on Jason Garrett. The fact that we had a potentially-HOF caliber QB and a probably average QB that both are having that problem is significantly problematic, yet common among them. To me, Dak would do better with a WCO-style chap who encourages quick passes. However, it also means that we need better playcalling for this to work. Firstly, we are FAR too predictable. If the commentators and most average observers can tell what we're going to do, what makes the coaches think that the defences won't know what we're going to do? We really need to be less predictable. That will help Dak because defences will have to defend more options.

    Secondly, I'm stunned that we don't run more slants or PAs. We are an offence that is designed to run. That is all well and good, but it's not being properly complimented. We don't run as much PA as I think we should. It really does compliment the run well, and it would give the defence a bit more pause to think about what we're actually going to do. This ties nicely into what I said earlier about not being so predictable. If defences know that we run a lot on first down (because we do), then a PA on first down at different parts of the game would be good because defences will have to back away from the line on first down.

    As I stated also, the slants are severely lacking, and they are perfect for Dak to get the ball out quickly. Additionally, slants are actually good for gaining yardage. Plus, considering the penalties that our offence is committing because of the long time that Dak is taking to hold onto the ball, slants and other quick passes can help us NOT be staring down the barrel of 3rd and 15+. We get a lot of those 3rd downs, and it is highly improbable to consistently convert those 3rd downs. So, this is more reason to use more quick balls.
     
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  2. cwbyfn88

    cwbyfn88 Well-Known Member

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    Garrett expects his guys to just win their routes. Thus the long developing plays where the quarterback holds on to the ball forever. Our problem is our offense is so vanilla that the defense knows when we are running and knows when we are passing and our guys are just expected to win their blocks and their routes. While the coach can just sit back in absolve himself of all blame
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  3. Furboy

    Furboy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and this is EXACTLY why we need new coaches. You can't just expect the plays to work all the time. Having long developing plays on rare occasions is fine. However, Dak is being forced by the playcalling to hold onto the ball for far too long, as did Romo when he was here. And we wonder why he looks dreadful. Now, he does need to make better decisions, and there are mistakes that he has made that had little to do with the playcalling. This post is NOT to absolve Dak of all blame, as he does deserve his share of the blame. I'm simply pointing out that some of his flaws can be cleaned or masked if he is encouraged better to release the ball more quickly.
     
  4. cwbyfn88

    cwbyfn88 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Dak could help the situation by making quicker reads. He often times passes up a guy who by NFL standards is open to search for a more open receiver. This self sacking. It's not all on the coaches. Dak has zero anticipation. But that also comes back full circle. A better coaching staff would work to change that. So far no bueno
     
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  5. Bob-Lillys-War

    Bob-Lillys-War Well-Known Member

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    Garrett expects to draw up plays and just let the players execute .

    He doesn't plan for each players weakness and strengths, doesn't take into account the opposing players weakness and strengths .

    He just drew a vanilla playbook 10 years ago, and if players don't execute ; its on the players ....
    ----

    da heck kind garbage coach do we have here ? The Garrett Garbage .
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  6. PhillySpecial

    PhillySpecial Active Member

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    The best way for a defense to limit the effectiveness of play action is to limit first down yardage. I don't know what the actual numbers are, but is sure seems that Dallas runs an awful lot on first down. Play the run on first down and limit the gain to 3 yards or less, and LBs can play a little deeper and clog the middle of the field. Limiting first down yardage also allows the LBs to hesitate just a tick longer before they decide whether or not to react to play action.

    Dallas probably could stand to run more slants. But it wouldn't take a defense long to spot tendencies when a slant is coming, and they start taking away the inside and forcing WRs out toward the sidelines.

    The WCO takes about 3 years to master. And it's reliant on the QB making quick reads and unloading the football. Neither are Dak's forte.
     
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  7. Furboy

    Furboy Well-Known Member

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    I suppose so, but there must be a way to slowly ease a QB into the WCO. It might take a bit of time, but at least some aspects of it should be implemented. We need to be much less predictable, and I think the quick releases are critical for Dak.
     
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  8. Furboy

    Furboy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, and, as stated, Romo was in a similar situation, wasn't he? He too had a tendency to hold onto the ball a bit too long at times, and he was a HOF-caliber QB. So, that's why I'm thinking that it has to be the coaches, at least partially. A better coach could implement quicker releases and quicker developing plays.
     
  9. CowboysFaninHouston

    CowboysFaninHouston CowboysFaninDC

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    its a little bit of both....Dak doesn't throw with anticipation, before WRs make their cuts, thus waiting for them to be into the last part of the route and wide open before he throws....with that said, Linehan and Garrett are used to the timing offenses, having experienced Aikman and Mathew Stafford, two QBs that throw with a lot of anticipation, are accurate and have great arms..... to you point they haven't adjusted to Dak..... Garrett is standing behind Linehan for too long and at somepoint needs to insert himself in the process. he is for what ever reason being too loyal to Linehan....

    with that said, Romo was more of a deep ball thrower, always looking to go down field, normally those routes take longer to develop, thus him holding on too long to the ball. with Dez that tendency went down, as Dez was his Irving (to Aikman) and he would throw with anticipation to him. Romo was just injury prone, some players just are...hits happen. and in a course of a season, the difference between hits in the middle of the pack of QBs is not that much....but Romo got injured, very much like Lee....for what ever reason, Lee is injury prone....

    I like us to go to a fast pace, two minute offense and let Dak call the play at the line and see how he does...
     
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  10. Furboy

    Furboy Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and I think Dak actually has had success going no huddle. We certainly could use that more, and fair enough. That's the massive flaw that our coaches have when it comes to Dak, and I've said this for ages. They seemingly can't adjust to Dak and create the offence for Dak, and his style of QB is actually rather typical of college QBs now with his running abilities. So, fast paced and quick passes are probably what this team needs imo.
     
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  11. nalam

    nalam The realist

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    First of all Dak was not a finished product and he was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. His first year production was a result of him playing better than (previous- improved mechanics , better throwing motion etc.) and by product of Strong OL play with Zekes run game. But , things he never was - accurate pocket quarterback or QB who throw with anticipation and read defenses or use his WRs strengths etc..

    Hence suddenly you cant expect him to be one. The atlanta game may have changed him for ever , he is never the same after.

    Having said that the coaching staff dont do any favors , Garett vanilla schemes and WRs with no speed or breaks , with a good dose of blame on Dak ( feeling pressure when there isnt ) is what we have now.
    The Jags game he played well with his legs , after that we havent seen that at all, could be a few planned read options and moving the pocket throwing on the run ( using his strengths) are alien concepts for coaching.

    He could be still servicable , face it we dont have anyone behind him - preseason established Cooper got Rushed ( lol) and white is very raw. But coaches have to throw their stupid vanilla schemes and device plans use the strengths of players, hasnt happend all these years of Garett , so less likely
     
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  12. Furboy

    Furboy Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I agree. I think we do need to get him competition to get more out of him. However, I think the playcalling has been atrocious. Maybe what I'm suggesting isn't the answer either, but it's GOT to be better than what the coaches are doing to Dak. Like you said, Dak was not a finished product, and he was intended to start as a backup. I fear that he'll be yet another good player that Garrett has destroyed. However, I think he can be salvaged if we become a quicker offence.
     
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  13. cwbyfn88

    cwbyfn88 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think. Romo held on to the ball as much because of scheme as it was him looking for the bigger play. He was a beast at extending plays. Doesn't mean scheme wasn't terrible though as we have had the same coach forever
     
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  14. rynochop

    rynochop Well-Known Member

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    If that first read isn't there Dak is lost..not sure how you coach that.
     
  15. Furboy

    Furboy Well-Known Member

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    Good point, but I still think that better playcalling could have taken advantage of that strength and allowed the ball to still be released more quickly.
     
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  16. Furboy

    Furboy Well-Known Member

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    By being a tad quicker, imo. Quicker play might be more of what he needs. I'd actually like for us to try to bring in his old college coach to be his QB coach to see what he can manage with Dak with that regard, but I still think the playcalling needs to be better and faster.
     
  17. Creeper

    Creeper Well-Known Member

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    Dak is slow making his decisions and it was noted in a few of the scouting reports on him coming out of college. That's still true. Also, throwing guys open requires accuracy and anticipation, two other traits not found in Dak.

    As for Romo, Romo has always held the ball too long. I saw a clip in NFL channel about Parcells where he was coaching Romo and he told him as a rookie he needed to get rid of teh football or it would haunt him his entire career. It did. But what strikes me about both Dak and Romo is how unwilling they seem to throw the football away. The league gives QBs a huge way out of negative plays and every QB should take advantage of it when necessary. But Romo would either try to force a throw or take a sack while Dak tries to run and takes a negative play. Its a head scratcher.
     
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  18. Zekeats

    Zekeats theranchsucks

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    Romo had a Quick release and Houdini like skills Dak does not possess those
     
  19. conner01

    conner01 Well-Known Member

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    That could cause those fumbles
     
  20. Zman5

    Zman5 Well-Known Member

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    This is nothing new. People used to complain about Romo doing the same. It's JG'S sucky scene.
     

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