Dak in perspective

[MichaelWinicki]

Marino was good but he only completed 58.4% of his passes during his rookie year.

To be honest just looking at Marino's completion percentage doesn't tell the whole story.

First off completion percentages as a whole were a little lower in 1983.

Secondly Marino did end up 3rd overall in passer rating... He had 20 passing TD's in only 9 games.

Marino's strength wasn't in completion percentage (even though he wasn't awful).

His strength was in being able to throw TD passing... He was top-notch when it came to getting the ball into the end zone.

And his second strength, if I listed another, was he ability to get rid of the football and avoid sacks– he was remarkable at it.

 

[sean10mm]

There's nothing wrong with the read option, but I think a lot of people were fooled by Dak's running production in college into thinking he's a running QB when he's much more of an athlethic pocket passer.

This is true. Where quarterbacks get in trouble when they can ONLY run option-based college gimmicks. RG3 never learned how to do anything else and got exposed. Same with Tebow and Kaepernick. Foles wasn't a runner, but he coasted on the novelty of Chip Kelly's first season running his wacky college gimmick offense in the NFL too.

Dak doesn't compare to those guys because he's not running a college option scheme as a crutch. He's running a pro style offense at a high level, with the odd run here or there when teams give him a wide open lane. Most fans aren't football literate enough to see the difference, but it's super obvious. Sturm pointed out that the Cowboys ran like 11 different personnel/formation combinations in one game and Dak shuffled them around like it was just another day at the office. One hit wonders like RG3 NEVER did that after YEARS in the NFL.

 

[sean10mm]

As for the game manager cracks, game managing is literally the quarterback's most important job. It's actually the hardest part, and something some of the greats (Favre springs to mind) never actually learned.

The problem is the guys most fans call "game managers" are absolute trash compared to Dak, which makes the statement look real stupid.

Loot at the stereotypical "game manger" types: Alex Smith never had a statistical year like Dak had as a rookie in spite of often playing on loaded teams. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson sure as hell never sniffed Dak's stats and played on elite rosters.

Of course the people crapping on Dak will never acknowledge this, they treat evidence like it was atomic waste.

 

[Boyzmamacita]

The problem with this is that Dak has not been the sole reason the team has won these games. This is showcased by the lack of TD passes. As badly as some do not want to admit it, Dak is a game manager. Fans act like that's a hateful statement but it's not when the team is built this way.

People who point to Dak as the difference from last year to this year don't see big picture. Last year the team didn't have Zeke or Dak. Zeke still runs up against 8 man fronts and picks up yards. Murray was unable to do this in 2014. Look at the Arizona game that season.

So many people also discredit this defense. Collins and Brown have proven to be really good picks. Irving is starting to flourish under Rod.

The biggest difference after Zeke to me? Sean Lee. People forget 2014 without him and they also don't realize the stretch without him last year, his first year back from the injury.

There's a lot of moving parts. Dak is one of them but not as big of one as people like to twist.

All that being said, my fear is RG3 directly beneath him... RG3 had a great season and so did Morris(1600 yards if I remember correctly). I'm not convinced Dak is the guy who can put the team on his shoulders and throw us back into a game.

At this point in time, I think Dak is the guy who isn't going to lose us a game...but he's not the guy who's going to win us one either.

There's nothing to twist. QBs lead their offense. Dak has led us to 13-2 and counting. He has brought us from behind and "won us" several games already. No reason to qualify it. I have seen veteran QBs do less with more. Dak is a BIG reason for our success along with Zeke and an improving defense.

 

[ThreeandOut]

The problem with this is that Dak has not been the sole reason the team has won these games. This is showcased by the lack of TD passes. As badly as some do not want to admit it, Dak is a game manager. Fans act like that's a hateful statement but it's not when the team is built this way.

People who point to Dak as the difference from last year to this year don't see big picture. Last year the team didn't have Zeke or Dak. Zeke still runs up against 8 man fronts and picks up yards. Murray was unable to do this in 2014. Look at the Arizona game that season.

So many people also discredit this defense. Collins and Brown have proven to be really good picks. Irving is starting to flourish under Rod.

The biggest difference after Zeke to me? Sean Lee. People forget 2014 without him and they also don't realize the stretch without him last year, his first year back from the injury.

There's a lot of moving parts. Dak is one of them but not as big of one as people like to twist.

All that being said, my fear is RG3 directly beneath him... RG3 had a great season and so did Morris(1600 yards if I remember correctly). I'm not convinced Dak is the guy who can put the team on his shoulders and throw us back into a game.

At this point in time, I think Dak is the guy who isn't going to lose us a game...but he's not the guy who's going to win us one either.

Troy Aikman...game manager.

 

[Scotman]

The fact that the next person on the list is RGIII (although I don't think he's like him) makes me still cautious to pronounce anything despite what he's done this year.

This is actually my biggest reason I try to temper my enthusiasm for this guy long-term....trying but failing.

I watched with horror as RGIII lit things up in Washington. I was sick of the thought of them having a QB like that for years to come. And then he just flamed out. I don't want Dak to flame out. I want the discussions of the greatest steal of a Cowboys draft to mention the 2016 QB Prescott 30 years from now.

 

[TheHerd]

Surely you're joking. Big Ben had the #1 rated defense in the NFL that year. Along with Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress and a Stout Oline. They had a better team than this years cowboys. Wilson had an all time defense that was also ranked #1 and Marshawn Lynch. And again QBs aside I'd take that team over this years Dallas team. Dak may have better weapons on offense. But Ben and Russell had elite defenses. And those elite Defenses consistently win games, especially when it counts the most, in the postseason.

So true. Even my son, who is a life long Seattle fan (I know, I know) often said during Wilson's rookie year that he has zero pressure since a 3 and out is a win for him.

Also, did Ben really have only 4 200 yard passing games? That says a lot too.

 

[Kevinicus]

I like how you constantly move the goal post in these debates. The post I quoted from you said compare Dak's team to those other QBs Teams which is exactly what I was doing. The last time I checked defense was a part of the team.

I didn't move the goal posts. Obviously, I was referring to the offensive team as this thread is not about the team record, but QB stats.

 

[sean10mm]

The problem with this is that Dak has not been the sole reason the team has won these games.

This statement isn't even wrong, it just means nothing, because it's true of every quarterback in football history.

 

[DogFace]

Prescott has a rugged build and a high football IQ. Not so easy to injure that type.

Let me jinx proof that.

Ok. Done.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Wilson's Seattle and Ben's Pittsburgh were pretty good. Pitt won 15 straight I believe.

It was Cowhers team when they still had the Bus...Jerome Bettis

 

[Joe Realist]

The fact that the next person on the list is RGIII (although I don't think he's like him) makes me still cautious to pronounce anything despite what he's done this year.

agreed

 

[Plankton]

Prescott has been outstanding, there's no question about it. His performance does rank as the best regular season that a rookie QB has produced. However, he does have the benefit of the second best rushing attack in the league, and an overachieving defense that is 4th overall in points allowed.

Out of the list above, the only QB that has a rating of over 85 that didn't have the benefit of a top 15 rushing offense was Marcus Mariota. He also had the 27th rated defense in points allowed.

 

[CapnCook]

The most unprecedented thing about it is he is doing it without using the read option as a crutch.

I just spit my coffee out picturing Ben running the read option!

 

[JJHLH1]

Farve would vote Dak for MVP. Farve won the award 3 times himself so he's in a good position to judge who deserves it most. He's right of course.

 

[CapnCook]

Just wait till the team gets a consistent pass rush. Dak will really suck then.

 

[slomoxn]

The problem with this is that Dak has not been the sole reason the team has won these games. This is showcased by the lack of TD passes. As badly as some do not want to admit it, Dak is a game manager. Fans act like that's a hateful statement but it's not when the team is built this way.

People who point to Dak as the difference from last year to this year don't see big picture. Last year the team didn't have Zeke or Dak. Zeke still runs up against 8 man fronts and picks up yards. Murray was unable to do this in 2014. Look at the Arizona game that season.

So many people also discredit this defense. Collins and Brown have proven to be really good picks. Irving is starting to flourish under Rod.

The biggest difference after Zeke to me? Sean Lee. People forget 2014 without him and they also don't realize the stretch without him last year, his first year back from the injury.

There's a lot of moving parts. Dak is one of them but not as big of one as people like to twist.

All that being said, my fear is RG3 directly beneath him... RG3 had a great season and so did Morris(1600 yards if I remember correctly). I'm not convinced Dak is the guy who can put the team on his shoulders and throw us back into a game.

At this point in time, I think Dak is the guy who isn't going to lose us a game...but he's not the guy who's going to win us one either.

So the come back with the 98? Yard drive in the last quarter, or any other come from behind wins weren't on him? If they would have lost would they be?

 

[Hawkeye19]

You can analyze stats, but you have to do so with context and include other factors in your analysis. Stats are just one tool of many.

Not really... stats are "supposed" to be an unbiased, objective way of evaluating performance.

Granted-- no system is perfect. Comparing players from different eras is especially challenging because the game has evolved a lot over time.

But to your point-- that Dak's numbers aren't that impressive b/c of the talent around him-- you need to be logically consistent and also apply that same measure to other QBs who played on great offenses like Montana, Elway, Manning, and Aikman (to name a few). Do you think they aren't as good either just because they were on talented offenses?

 

[JoeyBoy718]

I don't really understand how a QB doesn't get credit because his team is too good. We see teams all the time that fail to win because of their QB. Teams like the Jets, Bills, Cardinals, Rams, Texans, Broncos and Vikings would've been lighting up the league over these past years if they had decent QB play. Good teams lose all the time because of bad QBs, but when a good team wins the QB doesn't get credit.

 

[Kevinicus]

Not really... stats are "supposed" to be an unbiased, objective way of evaluating performance.

Granted-- no system is perfect. Comparing players from different eras is especially challenging because the game has evolved a lot over time.

But to your point-- that Dak's numbers aren't that impressive b/c of the talent around him-- you need to be logically consistent and also apply that same measure to other QBs who played on great offenses like Montana, Elway, Manning, and Aikman (to name a few). Do you think they aren't as good either just because they were on talented offenses?

If that's what you think, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I do not view stats as "unbiased" in any way shape or form.