Dak in perspective

[Sepia]

A few months ago, one of those sports shows had a member of the 2001 Patriots on there. He talked about seeing the character and poise in Tom early that helped everyone be confident in him. But he also pointed out that they weren't asking Tom to do a whole lot too early, even when he took over. Their strength as a team relied on other things. But allowing someone with intangibles and burgeoning abilities to get comfortable in their role really helps them grow and thrive later in their careers. If Dak has a good team around him, great. All that does is raise his ceiling, IMO.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

You are literally forecasting failure onto our rookie QB to downplay his historic rookie season. How can you possibly stand behind that argument? Oh, he could possibly potentially maybe fail in the future so we can't give him credit for his success today. You are literally imagining a career path that hasn't even happened yet, and may never happen, to downplay what is happening, right now, in reality, right before your eyes. That is as ridiculous as you can get.

We should forecast Zeke's future too in a similar way. Alfred Morris had 1600 plus his rookie year. Does that mean Zeke is doomed to follow the same career path?

lol, I am asking you to give your thoughts on some data so we can have a discussion about it. You seem hell bent on avoiding using your brain and considering a different point of view. It is okay if you just don't respond instead of whining. I promise I won't get mad.
I simply looked at the data and noticed that a lot of really, really good QBs threw a lot of interceptions as rookies. Peyton Manning threw a ton and he's one of the greatest ever. What does it mean? Would it be better if Dak had a few more interceptions? Are they learning tools in disguise?
We know that through no fault of Dak's own, he was put in a situation where he was expected to keep the
seat warm for 6-8 weeks and then go back to the bench. The Cowboys needed him to play in a manner that kept their playoff hopes alive, not promote his growth. We know that Dak would have a lot worse numbers if he was in Cleveland, but if he was under a good QB coach like Jackson who wasn't worried about making the playoffs, would he be a better long term bet?

 

[yimyammer]

It's hard enough to compare stats from five years ago, much less twenty. And as I said earlier, if Dak slobberers were actually paying attention to the numbers they should be concerned that Dak doesn't have about a dozen more interceptions. At least.

I guess I'm an idiot because I'm either missing your sarcasm or your point, can you help a brotha out and explain why we should want Dak to have more INTs?

 

[Gaede]

lol, I am asking you to give your thoughts on some data so we can have a discussion about it. You seem hell bent on avoiding using your brain and considering a different point of view. It is okay if you just don't respond instead of whining. I promise I won't get mad.
I simply looked at the data and noticed that a lot of really, really good QBs threw a lot of interceptions as rookies. Peyton Manning threw a ton and he's one of the greatest ever. What does it mean? Would it be better if Dak had a few more interceptions? Are they learning tools in disguise?
We know that through no fault of Dak's own, he was put in a situation where he was expected to keep the
seat warm for 6-8 weeks and then go back to the bench. The Cowboys needed him to play in a manner that kept their playoff hopes alive, not promote his growth. We know that Dak would have a lot worse numbers if he was in Cleveland, but if he was under a good QB coach like Jackson who wasn't worried about making the playoffs, would he be a better long term bet?

What other QBs have done in their rookie year and onwards has nothing to do with the incontrovertible fact that Dak has had a historically significant year as a rookie QB.

We can't compare Dak to how other QBs have done after their rookie year because he hasn't yet completed his rookie year. We can't say 'how would Dak do, compared to other rookie QBs on other teams, if their teams were reversed' because that makes no sense.

should we ask how many super bowls Aikman would've won on the Lions? The Cardinals? No. Because that MAKES NO SENSE. You can't imagine alternate scenarios to prove your point. You can only point to what IS REAL to make a point.

And the point being made here is that DAK is having a surreal year as a rookie QB.

That cannot be disputed.

 

[The Realist]

What other QBs have done in their rookie year and onwards has nothing to do with the incontrovertible fact that Dak has had a historically significant year as a rookie QB.

We can't compare Dak to how other QBs have done after their rookie year because he hasn't yet completed his rookie year. We can't say 'how would Dak do, compared to other rookie QBs on other teams, if their teams were reversed' because that makes no sense.

should we ask how many super bowls Aikman would've won on the Lions? The Cardinals? No. Because that MAKES NO SENSE. You can't imagine alternate scenarios to prove your point. You can only point to what IS REAL to make a point.

And the point being made here is that DAK is having a surreal year as a rookie QB.

That cannot be disputed.

When they run out of things to nit pick about Dak, they come up with this hair brained idea that he'd be better off throwing more picks. You can't fix stupid.

 

[haleyrules]

What is most impressive is that he inherited a 4-12 dumpster fire and is dominating the NFL.

RG3 inherited a 5-11 Commanders team and Big Ben inherited a 6-10 Steelers team. It can be argued that Dak inherited the worst situation of those three and has been the most successful stat wise.

I don't know about that Gabe!! The draft didn't hurt adding a star RB. The Cowboy Defense has also played very well. This 2016 club is stacked with Offensive talent. I really think its an outstanding club....but Prescott does make it more stable and solid.

 

[Gaede]

When they run out of things to nit pick about Dak, they come up with this hair brained idea that he'd be better off throwing more picks. You can't fix stupid.

Well of course they want Dak to throw more picks, then he'd be more easily benched

 

[JJHLH1]

Stats don't prove what you think they do. That's not how stats work. Stats are dependent on a lot of variables beyond QB play. The play of the rest of the team plays a large role in the success of any QB.

Dak is having a historic year...statistically. That doesn't mean he's playing better than all those other guys did or that he's not in a much better situation than the others in order to end up with those stats.

I don't know why so many of you feel the need to avoid objectivity and honest analysis or feel the need to short change the rest of the guys out there playing.

There comes a point where the statistical evidence becomes overwhelming. That is the case with Dak. But there's also the intangible qualities as well: leadership, grit, handling the spotlight and pressure. Dak is the greatest rookie QB in NFL history. He's now the gold standard that all subsequent rookie QB's will be compared to. Of course to cement his greatness he will need to have success in the postseason. The most important goals have yet to be accomplished.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

What other QBs have done in their rookie year and onwards has nothing to do with the incontrovertible fact that Dak has had a historically significant year as a rookie QB.

We can't compare Dak to how other QBs have done after their rookie year because he hasn't yet completed his rookie year. We can't compare Dak to rookie QBs on other teams because that makes no sense.

should we ask how many super bowls Aikman would've won on the Lions? The Cardinals? No. Because that MAKES NO SENSE. You can't imagine alternate scenarios to prove your point. You can only point to what IS REAL to make a point.

And the point being made here is that DAK is having a surreal year as a rookie QB.

That cannot be disputed.

lol, are you always so angry? I asked you for your thoughts on some data and I gave you mine. I genuinely would like to hear your thoughts on it. I promise it is not a trap. Again, as I said before if you do not respond I will not get mad. I don't know why you are continuing to scream at me.
Again, I think it's interesting that so many good QBs threw a lot of interceptions and wondered what the impact was of it on both past players and ours. That's it. No trap.

 

[Gaede]

lol, are you always so angry? I asked you for your thoughts on some data and I gave you mine. I genuinely would like to hear your thoughts on it. I promise it is not a trap. Again, as I said before if you do not respond I will not get mad. I don't know why you are continuing to scream at me.
Again, I think it's interesting that so many good QBs threw a lot of interceptions and wondered what the impact was of it on both past players and ours. That's it. No trap.

Fair enough.

I think Dak's decision making is very good already. The lack of interceptions proves he's a good decision maker and has been a major plus for us.

Do I want to see him chuck it around more? Absolutely. Do I think that his unwillingness to make those throws this year is a negative? No. He's being prudent, he's a rookie, and we're 13-2.

I think it's silly to project a career on him because of how he's developed this year vs. how other elite players developed in their careers. I don't think he's the next Steve McNair. Nor I don't think he's the next RG3. I'm going to take Dak's career a step at a time. And right now, he's earned our trust and respect.

 

[The Realist]

Fair enough.

I think Dak's decision making is very good already. The lack of interceptions proves he's a good decision maker and has been a major plus for us.

Do I want to see him chuck it around more? Absolutely. Do I think that his unwillingness to make those throws this year is a negative? No. He's being prudent, he's a rookie, and we're 13-2.

I think it's silly to project a career on him because of how he's developed this year vs. how other elite players developed in their careers. I don't think he's the next Steve McNair. Nor I don't think he's the next RG3. I'm going to take Dak's career a step at a time. And right now, he's earned our trust and respect.

I think he's better than McNair. Far better.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McNaSt00.htm

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Fair enough.

I think Dak's decision making is very good already. The lack of interceptions proves he's a good decision maker and has been a major plus for us.

Do I want to see him chuck it around more? Absolutely. Do I think that his unwillingness to make those throws this year is a negative? No. He's being prudent, he's a rookie, and we're 13-2.

I think it's silly to project a career on him because of how he's developed this year vs. how other elite players developed in their careers. I don't think he's the next Steve McNair. Nor I don't think he's the next RG3. I'm going to take Dak's career a step at a time. And right now, he's earned our trust and respect.

But see, here's the thing, I don't think it's his fault he doesn't chuck it around. It's Garrett in his ear, just like he was in Weeden's. Because they are trying to win now with him, and aren't concerned with his development at the moment. Peyton Manning didn't throw 28 interceptions because he was a bad QB. At the time, he was actually touted as the most pro-ready QB to ever enter the league. But they were a horrrible team, and they turned him loose and let him learn from his mistakes and develop. And they went from 3-13 in his first year to 13-3 in his next. And we know the rest of he story with Peyton Manning. Meanwhile Dak can't afford to develop, so they have made him comfortable with some of his college stuff, a lot of shotgun and half field reads. In the short term it is helping the team, but is it helping him? I think it's a fair question to ask. So that is why I am not as excited to see 4 INTs for Dak and 28 for Peyton Manning and 18 for Troy Aikman. Because it sure looks like those interceptions meant something.

 

[DallasInDC]

The fact that the next person on the list is RGIII (although I don't think he's like him) makes me still cautious to pronounce anything despite what he's done this year.

The issue with RGIII is that he couldn't read defenses...he even struggled getting past his first read. Second he benefitted from a gimicky offense that defenses needed an offseason to figure out. Dak doesn't have those issues. He runs a pro style offense and has demonstrated the ability to read defenses and audible to the right play....he can stand in the pocket and read three receivers make the right/safe play. Can he improve...yes, he needs to do a better job sensing pressure/hearing the internal clock when to get rid of it. He also missed on some big plays and his mechanics got sloppy when pressured, but those are all correctable with practice and contnued game experience. It is highly unlikely what happened to RGIII will happen to Dak.

 

[haleyrules]

There comes a point where the statistical evidence becomes overwhelming. That is the case with Dak. But there's also the intangible qualities as well: leadership, grit, handling the spotlight and pressure. Dak is the greatest rookie QB in NFL history. He's now the gold standard that all subsequent rookie QB's will be compared to. Of course to cement his greatness he will need to have success in the postseason. The most important goals have yet to be accomplished.

Yep. That about sums it up!

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

I see your point. How do you expect to learn how to throw INTs if you don't start throwing them early? Look at Eli Manning. He had 9 INTs his rookie year (with 6 TDs). Not great but not bad. But he improved by throwing 17 his second year, 18 his third, and 20 his fourth. He even got it up to 27 one year. Dak really has a long way to go if he wants to be in that kind of company.

ELI's in the interception HOF. lol

 

[TheHerd]

68% completion is surreal. Even for a vet.

Those are elite numbers. You can explain them away all you want. But the #s definitively prove that Dak is playing at an elite level. And has put up the best rookie season for a QB in twenty years.

Who was a better rookie QB better 20 years ago?

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Who was a better rookie QB better 20 years ago?

Unless one is just bullish about him only playing 11 games, most people consider Dan Marino to be the best rookie QB ever. He was pretty much a top 5 QB as soon as he took the field, and he was 90% of the guy who would throw 48 TDs in just his 2nd season (which is like 65 now) even as a rookie.

 

[TheHerd]

Unless one is just bullish about him only playing 11 games, most people consider Dan Marino to be the best rookie QB ever. He was pretty much a top 5 QB as soon as he took the field, and he was 90% of the guy who would throw 48 TDs in just his 2nd season (which is like 65 now) even as a rookie.

I'm give you Marino. Had forgotten how he started. Quickest release I've ever seen.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

I'm give you Marino. Had forgotten how he started. Quickest release I've ever seen.

Yep. He also had a 96 QB rating as a rookie, 32 years ago. I imagine adjusted for today that would lead the league. He was an amazing passer.

 

[haleyrules]

Well of course they want Dak to throw more picks, then he'd be more easily benched

Not any longer!