News: Dallas Cowboys defense still another year away from relevance

BAT

Mr. Fixit
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
15,607
Why does a team have to have a dominant D to mount a championship run?

History has shown that you need a top 10 defense just to contend for a chance to win a ring. The better your D in the post season, the better your chances.

Need top 10 offense too, but Cowboys should have that in 2016.
 

JBS

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,385
Reaction score
23,824
History has shown that you need a top 10 defense just to contend for a chance to win a ring. The better your D in the post season, the better your chances.

Need top 10 offense too, but Cowboys should have that in 2016.

Top 10 isn't dominant...

There are many ways to win football games...and yes, you need a well rounded team
 

BAT

Mr. Fixit
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
15,607
Top 10 isn't dominant...

There are many ways to win football games...and yes, you need a well rounded team

I disagree. Top 10 is closer to dominant than relevant. A top 10 talented D team is able to ratchet up the intensity in post season, especially if the talent is on DL and pass rushing is their specialty.

Teams that are ranked outside top 10 are less likely to have this ability in post season.

In any event, the Cowboys are not a top 10 defense this season. A championship contending defense. That is the point.
 

Jstopper

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,488
Reaction score
8,007
I disagree. Top 10 is closer to dominant than relevant. A top 10 talented D team is able to ratchet up the intensity in post season, especially if the talent is on DL and pass rushing is their specialty.

Teams that are ranked outside top 10 are less likely to have this ability in post season.

In any event, the Cowboys are not a top 10 defense this season. A championship contending defense. That is the point.


in both of the Giants SB run years they didn't have a top 10 defense. Matter of fact they were bottom of the league both years. They just somehow amped it up in the playoffs. Meaning our defense could do the same.
 

JBS

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,385
Reaction score
23,824
I disagree. Top 10 is closer to dominant than relevant. A top 10 talented D team is able to ratchet up the intensity in post season, especially if the talent is on DL and pass rushing is their specialty.

Teams that are ranked outside top 10 are less likely to have this ability in post season.

In any event, the Cowboys are not a top 10 defense this season. A championship contending defense. That is the point.

There aren't 10 dominant defenses in this league...

Every year is different...there is no formula...you just need to be good enough to win every game in the postseason...it can be done In many different ways
 

Kolemmitt

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,358
Reaction score
4,842
There aren't 10 dominant defenses in this league...

Every year is different...there is no formula...you just need to be good enough to win every game in the postseason...it can be done In many different ways

Absolutely.

One of the problems is that people see defense in a vacuum, totally apart from the rest of the team, which is not the case.

An offense with a dominant run game and high percentage passing limits the number of snaps a defense has to defend.
An offense that rarely turns the ball over, makes the opposing offenses have to gain more yardage and gives them fewer attempts to score.
An offense that can control the ball and put up a lot of points forces the other team's offense to take chances - leading to turnovers and sacks.
Knowing that your offense can score a lot of points leads to more aggressive defensive play from the players and play calling from the coaches - leading to more turnovers and sacks.
Good special teams also makes the offense have to gain more yardage to score.
Perhaps most important is the mental aspect. Pro football is rough, tough, marathon. Training camp, preseason, 16 games, it wears on you.There comes a point when many teams realize that they are not going to have a special season. At that point, the team starts to fall apart. Sure, they are professionals and they should play their hardest, but the fact is if you are in week 14, you have been eliminated from the playoffs, and your QB is Cassell/Moore etc. you are just not going to play as hard as you would if you are in a play off race.
 

JoeKing

Diehard
Messages
36,648
Reaction score
31,939
Why does a team have to have a dominant D to mount a championship run?

Bottom line: Defense is no more important than offense. It’s not defense that wins championships. In virtually every sport, you need either a stellar offense or a stellar defense, and having both is even better.
 

JBS

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,385
Reaction score
23,824
Bottom line: Defense is no more important than offense. It’s not defense that wins championships. In virtually every sport, you need either a stellar offense or a stellar defense, and having both is even better.

You aren't as dumb as people say
 

gmoney112

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,589
Reaction score
15,694
in both of the Giants SB run years they didn't have a top 10 defense. Matter of fact they were bottom of the league both years. They just somehow amped it up in the playoffs. Meaning our defense could do the same.

Neither did the Packers or Saints, in fact they both had terrible defenses that stepped up in crunch time.

I actually think, if health lays in our favor, we'll crack the top 10 as a defense as the season goes on. I'd much rather be a top 5 team in turnovers than a top 5 team in any other metric anyway.
 

BAT

Mr. Fixit
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
15,607
in both of the Giants SB run years they didn't have a top 10 defense. Matter of fact they were bottom of the league both years. They just somehow amped it up in the playoffs. Meaning our defense could do the same.

Those teams had excellent pass rushing units. Are you forgetting Nascar package with HOFER Mike Strahan, pro bowler Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyora?
 

BAT

Mr. Fixit
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
15,607
There aren't 10 dominant defenses in this league...

Every year is different...there is no formula...you just need to be good enough to win every game in the postseason...it can be done In many different ways

Cop out response, it always starts in the trenches on offense and especially on defense. Top 10 defenses usually have a great pass rush, and those teams are usually the ones who can take their game to another level in post season.

There are different ways to build elite defenses but the formulas are not infinite nor are they secret.
 

BAT

Mr. Fixit
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
15,607
Top 10 isn't dominant...

There are many ways to win football games...and yes, you need a well rounded team

Top 10 is better than 22 other teams, not sure why you can't comprehend this. Top 10 is the goal for offense and defense to increase championship success.

Sounds like you are picking nits to deflect / obfuscate my point, Cowboys need to improve their D significantly to become a true championship contender, especially the pass rush.
 

JBS

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,385
Reaction score
23,824
Top 10 is better than 22 other teams, not sure why you can't comprehend this. Top 10 is the goal for offense and defense to increase championship success.

Sounds like you are picking nits to deflect / obfuscate my point, Cowboys need to improve their D significantly to become a true championship contender, especially the pass rush.

No. My point is, that this idea that a team has to have a dominant defense to be a championship caliber team is wrong...thus, I disagree with your opinion

There are plenty of examples of teams without dominant defenses that have won championships

For whatever reason, everyone wants to find some formula or common denominator on championship teams...there isn't one, they're all different
 

DTown214

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,814
Reaction score
2,887
Well it's a good thing we can still win 12 games with a bad defense
 

percyhoward

Research Tool
Messages
17,062
Reaction score
21,861
If you don't have either a Top 12 defense during the regular season, or your defense doesn't play to Top-12 level in the postseason, then you're up against 50 years of history.
 

Jstopper

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,488
Reaction score
8,007
Those teams had excellent pass rushing units. Are you forgetting Nascar package with HOFER Mike Strahan, pro bowler Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyora?

In 2012 the Giants were the 31st ranked defense in the regular season in the nfl. In those same playoffs they held the Falcons (a top 5 offense that year) to 0 points and didn't allow more than 20 points through any of the 4 games. My point being they played so far above and beyond their skillset during that playoff run that it makes you wonder where the hell that unit was hiding for the 16 game regular season. So like i said originally no they did not have a good defense. The playoffs somehow were a different story
 

DenCWBY

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,170
Reaction score
5,929
Why does a team have to have a dominant D to mount a championship run?

History will tell you why. Yes there are some cases where a strong offense has danced through the playoffs however that offense has to be hitting on all cylinders in January which is rare. A dominant defense can get you deep into the playoffs year in and year out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BAT

percyhoward

Research Tool
Messages
17,062
Reaction score
21,861
History will tell you why. Yes there are some cases where a strong offense has danced through the playoffs however that offense has to be hitting on all cylinders in January which is rare. A dominant defense can get you deep into the playoffs year in and year out.
Even the highest-scoring offenses of the Super Bowl era needed a good defense to win a championship.

The 10 highest scoring teams in NFL history all made the playoffs. But the only one that won a Super Bowl was the one with the best defense. The non-champion that came closest to winning it all was the one with the 2nd-best defense.

Teams with great offenses get exposed in the postseason when their defense isn't playoff caliber. See Dallas, 2014.


2h5pi07.jpg
 

JBS

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,385
Reaction score
23,824
If you don't have either a Top 12 defense during the regular season, or your defense doesn't play to Top-12 level in the postseason, then you're up against 50 years of history.

Top 12 is far from dominant
 

JBS

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,385
Reaction score
23,824
Even the highest-scoring offenses of the Super Bowl era needed a good defense to win a championship.

The 10 highest scoring teams in NFL history all made the playoffs. But the only one that won a Super Bowl was the one with the best defense. The non-champion that came closest to winning it all was the one with the 2nd-best defense.

Teams with great offenses get exposed in the postseason when their defense isn't playoff caliber. See Dallas, 2014.


2h5pi07.jpg

Show the 10 best defenses in nfl history
 
Top