Darren Waller fumbled that ball

[boysbeyond4ever]

I disagree with him on this call too, but there's no reason to question his fandom. He posts what he believes to be true, whether it goes for against the Cowboys. IMO, he isn't operating with any agenda other than trying to show what he honestly believes are the facts.

One other point. When he began this referring to in quotes as is if stated rule the "Starting" to take a step and "taking" a step. I reviewed the NFL Rule Summary and Actual NFL Rule. When I asked him multiple times where this is actually stated in the NFL Rules he never once tried to show or me or acknowledge he simply misspoke and made an honest mistake. Same with his assertions about the importance of "three step" in deciding catch or no catch. Again I challenged to show us where the rule said that and again he made no effort that I saw to do so . And he downright deceitfully and dishonestly tried to pretend he was referring to having to feet down as the rule states (which again is not the same as two steps or three or any steps. Read the thread and you will see this clearly. He will not ever admit being wrong about anything or that anyone else might be. He lacks the integrity and character to do so.

He is simply a troll who thinks he is proving himself to be superior to everyone else, and he thrives on the attention this behavior draws. Here is not here to actually make a contribution to anything just to take all the attention he can get. Why should we waste our time havig genuine discussions about issues of any sort with him?

 

[buybuydandavis]

There were many, many, many bad calls but the Waller fumble that was called an incomplete pass was as bad as the Dez catch/no catch. Waller had the ball and was heading up the field when Jayron Kearse knocked that ball out of his hand.

The UnCatch was worse. Overturned the right call on the field.

 

[MarcusRock]

One other point. When he began this referring to in quotes as is if stated rule the "Starting" to take a step and "taking" a step. I reviewed the NFL Rule Summary and Actual NFL Rule. When I asked him multiple times where this is actually stated in the NFL Rules he never once tried to show or me or acknowledge he simply misspoke and made an honest mistake. Same with his assertions about the importance of "three step" in deciding catch or no catch. Again I challenged to show us where the rule said that and again he made no effort that I saw to do so . And he downright deceitfully and dishonestly tried to pretend he was referring to having to feet down as the rule states (which again is not the same as two steps or three or any steps. Read the thread and you will see this clearly. He will not ever admit being wrong about anything or that anyone else might be. He lacks the integrity and character to do so.

He is simply a troll who thinks he is proving himself to be superior to everyone else, and he thrives on the attention this behavior draws. Here is not here to actually make a contribution to anything just to take all the attention he can get. Why should we waste our time havig genuine discussions about issues of any sort with him?

"Not going to waste time" but still post 4 or 5 times in a row about me to someone who left off talking to you 3 posts ago. Yeah, we see who has the issue here alright. Lol.

When people go on about another thinking they're superior when they've made no such mention of that, perhaps it's the opposite working within themselves that constantly troubles them. It's probably why you need to constantly rally support to your side from the sidelines. Having a herd brings validation and comfort to some. Have at it.

 

[Runwildboys]

One other point. When he began this referring to in quotes as is if stated rule the "Starting" to take a step and "taking" a step. I reviewed the NFL Rule Summary and Actual NFL Rule. When I asked him multiple times where this is actually stated in the NFL Rules he never once tried to show or me or acknowledge he simply misspoke and made an honest mistake. Same with his assertions about the importance of "three step" in deciding catch or no catch. Again I challenged to show us where the rule said that and again he made no effort that I saw to do so . And he downright deceitfully and dishonestly tried to pretend he was referring to having to feet down as the rule states (which again is not the same as two steps or three or any steps. Read the thread and you will see this clearly. He will not ever admit being wrong about anything or that anyone else might be. He lacks the integrity and character to do so.

He is simply a troll who thinks he is proving himself to be superior to everyone else, and he thrives on the attention this behavior draws. Here is not here to actually make a contribution to anything just to take all the attention he can get. Why should we waste our time havig genuine discussions about issues of any sort with him?

I understand your point of view. After having seen many posts from him, I think he just dislikes when people try to make excuses for losses or bad plays. If he thinks you believe the refs and/or league are out to get us, he'll argue all day long. I don't recall a specific incident in which he's admitted being wrong, but I vaguely remember him softening his stance once or twice. As for whether or not you want to argue or debate with him, that's obviously your decision. As with most people, I'll give my point of view until I've decided neither of us is going to change our minds, then I just stop contributing to the argument.

As for "starting to take a step" and "taking a step", I imagine the league probably considers it a step when the foot actually touches the ground, and not before, but I'm not sure enough to say that. But I consider that a moot point in this case, because I agree with you that he turned upfield, which negates the need for a third step.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Here’s how you know it’s a catch. If this play happened in the end zone the raiders would get tHe touchdown

 

[NumOneQB]

I thought this was a clear fumble. He caught it and was moving it to his body. Even announcers called it a catch. Not even close to the Dez catch thing. Dez catch coulda went either way and it did.

 

[ryanbabs]

This.

God I'm jealous when people just say what I really wanted to.

If everyone will just put him in ignore, he can argue with himself. I’ve seen these personality types all through life. Baits people into debates about meaningless topics so he can feel intellectually superior in his mind. Arguing about the subjective rules whether a football player actually caught a pass or not? He’s not a Cowboys fan, he’s a fan of himself.

 

[MarcusRock]

If everyone will just put him in ignore, he can argue with himself. I’ve seen these personality types all through life. Baits people into debates about meaningless topics so he can feel intellectually superior in his mind. Arguing about the subjective rules whether a football player actually caught a pass or not? He’s not a Cowboys fan, he’s a fan of himself.

Yes, please do. If you are so "offended" with someone posting the actual rules at play in a thread that discusses a ruling, then maybe you don't belong on an opinionated message board. I think it has more to do with people just not agreeing with your whine to help you feel comfortable having a herd confirm it and then wanting to attack the source of that which doesn't play along. This is why when I simply post and explain rules that counter what you think, you and others turn to insults. I'm never insulting first, but because you aren't easily allowed your narrative with clear holes in them, you and some others get in a tizzy, especially when you can't overcome what's presented. So don't get mad when I twist the knife of what you can't gainsay because it's you who wanted it that way. You start it, and I make dang sure to finish it off.

So yes, show the world you can't hack a disagreement by putting me on ignore. There are plenty of others who can without being insulting and we can disagree and come back another time like @Runwildboys here and others. When they don't want to discuss past a point, you don't see me chasing them down to insult them because I didn't get my ever-so-prized validation. How childish.

 

[DogFace]

Had the Raiders recovered it would have been a catch. I have no proof of that. I just know it.

 

[xwalker]

There were many, many, many bad calls but the Waller fumble that was called an incomplete pass was as bad as the Dez catch/no catch. Waller had the ball and was heading up the field when Jayron Kearse knocked that ball out of his hand.

• Left Foot and Catch
  • Left foot is touching the field when he catches the ball.
  • His heel comes up but the toe of his shoe is still touching.

• Sequence Feet
  • Catches with left foot touching.
  • Right foot down.
  • Left foot down.
  • Right foot 2 inches from making contact with the field.
  • Ball comes out.

• Sequence Head & Feet
  • Catches the ball looking back towards the QB.
  • Head & body completely turn to face downfield as he accelerates off his right leg.
  • Left leg down continues to accelerate.
  • Ball comes out.

After watching that multiple times in slow motion and regular speed, it is obvious that Waller is an incredibly fluid athlete at 6-6, 255.

• Darren Waller
  • 6th round pick by Ravens 2015
  • Forty: 4.46
  • Ten: 1.52
  • Vert: 37
  • 3-cone: 7.07
• Suspended 1 year (2017) for substance abuse.
• Played 4 games with 6 receptions in 2018.
• 90 receptions for 1,145 yards in 2019
• 107 receptions for 1,196 yards in 2020.

 

[glimmerman]

I and many believe that was a fumble. If it was recovered by the raiders what would the call be. If it was us that it happened to then how would it be called.. It was a judgement call by the refs and they let it play as a fumble. Should not have been enough to over turn that..

 

[BBGTYCOON]

Here’s how you know it’s a catch. If this play happened in the end zone the raiders would get tHe touchdown

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

I disagree with him on this call too, but there's no reason to question his fandom. He posts what he believes to be true, whether it goes for against the Cowboys. IMO, he isn't operating with any agenda other than trying to show what he honestly believes are the facts.

One other point. When he began this referring to in quotes as is if stated rule the "Starting" to take a step and "taking" a step. I reviewed the NFL Rule Summary and Actual NFL Rule. When I asked him multiple times where this is actually stated in the NFL Rules he never once tried to show or me or acknowledge he simply misspoke and made an honest mistake. Same with his assertions about the importance of "three step" in deciding catch or no catch. Again I challenged to show us where the rule said that and again he made no effort that I saw to do so . And he downright deceitfully and dishonestly tried to pretend he was referring to having to feet down as the rule states (which again is not the same as two steps or three or any steps. Read the thread and you will see this clearly. He will not ever admit being wrong about anything or that anyone else might be. He lacks the integrity and character to do so.

He is simply a troll who thinks he is proving himself to be superior to everyone else, and he thrives on the attention this behavior draws. Here is not here to actually make a contribution to anything just to take all the attention he can get. Why should we waste our time havig genuine discussions about issues of any sort with him?

 

[jblaze2004]

the fix was in. That was a fumble. He caught it and took 2 steps. IDK if he didn't tuck it yet. That isn't a requirement. Terrible refs.
Refs should be fined for bad calls. Its like the more calls they make the more money they get? Especially if you call it against the cowboys during a big moment.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

If everyone will just put him in ignore, he can argue with himself. I’ve seen these personality types all through life. Baits people into debates about meaningless topics so he can feel intellectually superior in his mind. Arguing about the subjective rules whether a football player actually caught a pass or not? He’s not a Cowboys fan, he’s a fan of himself.

I think you're dead on. Look at the signature he posted starts with "Debate me...." as if that is why we're here having these discussions, just to debate him, when these discussions would go whether he was here or not or ever was here or not. Further than that it suggests he is not advocating for or against anything actually but the opportunity to prove he is the better debater and the smarter man, when his whole debating starategyis intellectually equivalent to the practice of jury nullification in the legal world.

He still as yet has not actually explained where the difference between starting to take and actually taking a step is and where it appears to in the 2021 NFL rules or where the 3-step requirement is in the same rules. Why? Because that would undermine his debate credibility? Not because it's actually true that neither assertion on his part appears in the NFL rules, because the truth only matters when it serves his interests. He ignores the truth like a child blocking their chanting LALALALALALALA because these debates aren't about the truth for him they're about crushing this debate (which is why his bud didn't bring him wings back - like in the Wing Stop ad). That makes him a troll.more than anything else.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

I understand your point of view. After having seen many posts from him, I think he just dislikes when people try to make excuses for losses or bad plays. If he thinks you believe the refs and/or league are out to get us, he'll argue all day long. I don't recall a specific incident in which he's admitted being wrong, but I vaguely remember him softening his stance once or twice. As for whether or not you want to argue or debate with him, that's obviously your decision. As with most people, I'll give my point of view until I've decided neither of us is going to change our minds, then I just stop contributing to the argument.

I just feel it is a waste to interact with him because he avoids answering any question that undermines his argument or in his case advocacy, and that isn't honest or intellectual debate. He is as objective and credible as (depeniding on your politics) Fox News or MSNBC in the eyes of some (again depending on your politics) Point being he is neither credible nor objective

As for "starting to take a step" and "taking a step", I imagine the league probably considers it a step when the foot actually touches the ground, and not before, but I'm not sure enough to say that. But I consider that a moot point in this case, because I agree with you that he turned upfield, which negates the need for a third step.[/QUOTE]

I always assumed that's what that meant, thanks though for at least explaining. Unlike Mr. Marcus who felt somehow like no explanation was needed nor more critically was there any need to explain where that appears in the NFL Rulebook, nor to acknowledge that in fact it does not. So engaging in intellectual change aimed at some sort of answer is p[ointless because there only one answer to him- the answer crushes his debating opponent. The truth is irrelevent. to him. That makes him irrelevant to me- and it should to everyone else until he grows up a bit.

 

[Brooksey]

Just found video of the slo mo replay and the ball is out before the 3rd foot comes down. It's not a catch and correctly called incomplete. At 0:53 below.

The third foot is on the ground and the ball comes out at the same time. Easy to see it's a fumble as he was making a move upfield

 

[G2]

I really have no idea why anyone would go hard in the paint defending the refs. My opinion? There doesn't have to be a conspiracy or even an idea that the league is against Dallas specifically. The fact that they're GROSSLY inconsistent is enough to admit the officiating is a real problem that effects the game and it's unnecessary. To me that's the conversation that needs to happen.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

Here's the thing - given all the varied minutiae (including that forwarded by me) and different replays offered up as well (again included one by me) maybe the real question should be was there really definitive evidence to determine the play was incomplete? Yes it was an automatic review of a turnover scoring play initiated upstairs but was there really definitive evidence either way?

Let's say it had been a catch and the issue was the spot. Clearly that could have been challenged. But if there were multiple replays that suggested both the ruling on the field and coach's challenge to it could be correct and neither was definitely correct would the booth have overturned that call? No they'd have said the call stands or gotten hammered for overturning it without the replays meeting the criteria to actually overturn it..

Go back to yes - the Cowboys game in Foxboro. 3rd and goal from the one Dak disappears in a pile of players and officials decide the ball never crossed the plane of goal line even though Dak ends up in the endzone with ball underneath him in his hands. And the overhead replay clearly shows this (though the ball is under him. But while you can't see the ball it's in his possession when he is pulled up and you couldn't see the ball with in the field of play short of the end zone at any point. yet even though there is no clear evidence the ball didn't cross the plane that was enough to go with the ruling on the field, but this clearly wasn't enough? When your proof is down to the replay you want to look at it or the intentionally vague term of 'football move" there is no definitive call to be made. You can't decide there is definitive evidence unless there is. The strongest evidence is that he did catch it and fumble certainly and that should matter.

Oh Dak absolutely fumbled before scoring the next play and they got that right in the booth and wrong on the field. But they got the previously play wrong on the field and looking at were Dak was the call should have been overturned then as well.

Again we're back to consistency, whether on the field or in the replay booth in NY.

 

[bratch59]

We will never know because our coach didn't challenge it.

Not true. It was ruled a catch and fumbled, because it was a turnover it was automatically reviewed and reversed. Bad call IMO