Darren Waller fumbled that ball

[ICP]

Was a huge momentum shift but honestly...... Didn't you just know it was going to be ruled an incomplete pass? NFL is getting to be unbearable to watch, how is that not a catch and fumble?

 

[MarcusRock]

The additional step is only one of several football moves listed. Turning upfield is another, which he did. Also, it states "or he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.", and he certainly had time to tuck the ball away, IMO, but chose not to do so.

Nah bro. I know this rule inside and out. As I just mentioned to the thread starter, Waller was already headed up field so he didn't "turn" upfield. He was already headed that way. If he had time to tuck the ball away, he would have. Same for the 3rd step. If there was time, he would have. The "time enough" I believe is meant for situations where a receiver is prevented from doing one of those football moves, i.e. a defender comes and pins his arms in an up or down position so he can't tuck it away or take a 3rd step or stretch it forward, etc. or just gets bear hugged at a standstill. When you can't see a demonstrative football move happen and the receiver is prevented from doing so, then he is credited with "time enough" to have done so if prevented. It was the same for the going to the ground rule when the Dez play happened. Because he could not perform all parts of the catch while falling to the ground, surviving the ground became the "time enough" marker. Just keep the ball off the ground and possess it, and you are credited with the time aspect of the catch. When Dez couldn't, that's what did him in because he had the control and 2 feet but time is what got him.

 

[T-RO]

Please show me in the NFL Rules where the wrod "Starting" as you dramatically put in quotes to try and assert you authority over all matter of the rules is. Go ahead show me - show all of us.

He can't. Markus makes things up as he goes along, just like the zebras.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

Again Mr. Marcus where is the difference between starting to take and taking an additional step. . This isn't a layup in basketball where you get the jump-step of Euro Step? You seem to be reluctant to show us that part of the rulee
ven though that's the very part you cite in defending the call> I am also fascinated to hear your explanation of how the rule differentiates between that all-important step and turning up field, or if you even think he actually turned up field.at all.

 

[Verdict]

he absolutely did, micah was held blatantly multiple times, bs roughing the passer, handful of pi’s not called for our guys. but oh well, had every opportunity

Parsons had multiple hands to the face that were not called. They were doing that to Parsons all day!

 

[Cowpolk]

It was a fumble

 

[MarcusRock]

And the irony is Mr. Marcus is that I thought it was incomplete initially not for the reasons you so incorrectly state but I simply and incorrectly though the ball came out as soon as he caught which was not the case. It wasn't Until the 3rd or 4th look I was hell, yeah that's a catch and fumble< But in fact it was a catch and fumble and your wanna-be atuthoritativeness is just crap or youd have explained by now where the rule talks about the difference between starting to take and taking a step.

And you still haven't caught on to what I was referring to in that post so you'll just have to continue treading water in the abyss until you calmly go back and read. Your choice.

 

[T-RO]

Marcus will defend the refs 99% of the time. In fact he spends more time on this forum defending the refs than posting about anything else.

Tells me everything I need to know about him and his posts.

 

[Runwildboys]

In the video, I see him swing the ball back and forth, which seems like plenty of time to tuck it away instead. As for the already moving upfield, you may be right on that, but I was thinking he had his head turned around to make the catch, then turned it upfield as he ran. Maybe they mean the whole body has to turn upfield, but it doesn't specify that.

Okay, just took another watch and IMO he turned upfield after catching it. He was definitely moving at a more lateral angle before he caught it.

 

[MarcusRock]

He can't. Markus makes things up as he goes along, just like the zebras.

I'm quoting directly from the rulebook. All you and others are doing are spouting off your feels. Show me from the rules where I'm wrong because I'm showing how they back what I say because I know them. This is why we get half the whiny threads we do because people complain about rules they don't even know the contents of. Even Romo calling the game wasn't aware. After 2014, he of all people should be brushed up on what makes a catch.

 

[StarChamber_33]

No doubt it WAS a fumble!! And the play Neal made keeping the ball from going out of bounds and tossing it to Kearse was a WORK OF ART. But unfortunately and predictably it was ruled incomplete pass!!

 

[T-RO]

Here are the REAL RULES, without all the nonsense and disingenuous drivel Marcus is saying. Exact quote from NFL rulebook with link:

"There are three main requirements for completing a catch. The player must:

• Have control of the ball
• Get two feet or another body part down (other than his hands)
• Make a football move, such as a third step, reaching or extending the ball forward, or having the ability to perform such an act

A player does not have to maintain control the ball through contact with the ground if he makes a football move, and movement of the ball does not automatically result in loss of control."​

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rules-digest/#process-of-a-catch

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

Seiiously Marcus Man Up and show us where the NFL refer to the three steps or admit you're a fraud and troll.. You know the rule inside and out so you know where that is so show us like a mature grown-assed man would..

BTW as the ball arrives Waller is running across the field his head facing back toward Carr at the moment he catches the ball so unless he is possessed by the Demon from the Exorcist Waller categorically was not running upfield when he caught the ball and did in fact turn upfield.after securing the ball with two feet down and it's not even that close a call.

Still I will let you answer the question about the three steps in the rules. I'm waiting.

 

[Vegas_Cowboy]

Shart happens. Suck less and overcome.

 

[AbeBeta]

Gene Steratore said, "Most definitely they can challenge the catch."

They can challenge if it was complete or not.

The rest of it is not challengeable.

You want Mc to throw a flag to maybe make that a 1st down for the Raiders. Coulda sworn Steratore laid that out clearly **.

 

[MarcusRock]

In the video, I see him swing the ball back and forth, which seems like plenty of time to tuck it away instead. As for the already moving upfield, you may be right on that, but I was thinking he had his head turned around to make the catch, then turned it upfield as he ran. Maybe they mean the whole body has to turn upfield, but it doesn't specify that.

Turning upfield is either having your back to the defense and then turning to run in the direction your team is going or running parallel to the yardlines and then turning to run in the direction your team is going. If you're already going that way, you're not turning up field. No receiver runs with a ball outstretched. If they have time to tuck the ball away, they do that so it doesn't get swatted. On this play he just didn't have time to. Same for the 3rd step. For one, he had to reach a little behind him to make the catch so he takes a stride to secure it with his left hand. I don't know if Waller is right handed but if he were moving it to that hand the ball was knocked out just before the transfer as it was moving towards Neal, which was perfect for him to strike it. When he's running free, no ref is gonna say, "oh yeah, he had time." Either you perform one because you do have time and any determination becomes a judgement call when it's debatable because he was falling, got stood up by a defender, etc. Otherwise, you're making a call much harder than it needs to be.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

BTW your problem with the Dez Theory is he was contacted to the ground.he didn't simply fall down. In fact after they screwed that up they tightened the rules on what constitutes a catch, but before that if was you have possession and are contacted to the ground it was a catch because the ground can't cause a fumble even if in fact that's what it was (Still haven't seen ball loose on the ground to this day..

But please feel free to focus on showing where three steps are in the rules and where the difference between starting to take a step and taking a step is actually outlined. Since you know the rule "inside and out" as you say surely you can find those references in the rule.

 

[MarcusRock]

Here are the REAL RULES, without all the nonsense and disingenuous drivel Marcus is saying. Exact quote from NFL rulebook with link:

"There are three main requirements for completing a catch. The player must:

• Have control of the ball
• Get two feet or another body part down (other than his hands)
• Make a football move, such as a third step, reaching or extending the ball forward, or having the ability to perform such an act

A player does not have to maintain control the ball through contact with the ground if he makes a football move, and movement of the ball does not automatically result in loss of control."​

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rules-digest/#process-of-a-catch

This is a summary of the "drivel" I posted direct from the rulebook, which is more complete than these.

But before you burst a capillary in your forehead, did Waller take a 3rd step per the summary rules you posted (and my official ones)?

 

[T-RO]

Shart happens. Suck less and overcome.

Bull. Teams in the NFL are too evenly matched to overcome rampant referee tampering.

The Raiders got 7 first downs from penalties. SEVEN! Most of those on third down, when they would have had to punt. On top of that there was a 65 yard differential in penalty yardage, plus the fumble-call debacle.

 

[MarcusRock]

BTW your problem with the Dez Theory is he was contacted to the ground.he didn't simply fall down. In fact after they screwed that up they tightened the rules on what constitutes a catch, but before that if was you have possession and are contacted to the ground it was a catch because the ground can't cause a fumble even if in fact that's what it was (Still haven't seen ball loose on the ground to this day..

But please feel free to focus on showing where three steps are in the rules and where the difference between starting to take a step and taking a step is actually outlined. Since you know the rule "inside and out" as you say surely you can find those references in the rule.

Still wading in the abyss. Until you go back and read to even know what was being said, I'm afraid nothing can be done for you. Let me know once you figure it out.