DC: Broaddus: Comparing The Tape On Dez Bryant And Atlanta’s Julio Jones

[xwalker]

163 targets and only 6 TDs....get all the yards you want (Dez got over 1300 yards on 27 less targets) but how do you only have 6 TDs in 163 targets when Dez had 16 on 136 targets?

Again, it is dependent on the team's offensive scheme and other offensive players.

Michael Irvin only had 7 TDs in each of the 1992 and 1993 Super Bowl seasons.

If TDs scored relative to yards gained is the primary measurement of a players greatness, then Escobar is a hall of fame player. If you're going to use the "misused" reasoning for Witten, then you have to consider that type of reasoning for Jones also.

Dez may indeed be the better player, but the stats don't prove it. We'll get to see Julio Jones up close this season. Film don't lie.

 

[Enlightened32]

Again, it is dependent on the team's offensive scheme and other offensive players.

Michael Irvin only had 7 TDs in each of the 1992 and 1993 Super Bowl seasons.

If TDs scored relative to yards gained is the primary measurement of a players greatness, then Escobar is a hall of fame player. If you're going to use the "misused" reasoning for Witten, then you have to consider that type of reasoning for Jones also.

Dez may indeed be the better player, but the stats don't prove it. We'll get to see Julio Jones up close this season. Film don't lie.

Ok, I think you are misreading what Im saying. Im not saying that TDs are the only stat that matters. However, when you have a player that is said to be than another player, and in 27 extra targets that player is still 10 TDs behind the other one then you have to start questioning his production.

Atlanta has been 2nd the last 2 years in passing attempts. So, unless you can show where Dallas was a pass first team and Irvin didnt get TDs still then your argument is null and void. Irvin was on a run first team and was used as a possession guy. Julio is not a possession guy.

Julio had 1593 yards a 6 TDs to Dez' 1320 yards and 16 TDs. You can not convince me that 273 yards is more important than scoring 60 more points.

 

[tyke1doe]

Neither are likely to be the same player now as they were in 2012.

I'm not saying that Dez is not better. I'm just saying I don't think we really know.

Cowboys fans will think Dez is better.
Falcons fans will think Jones is better.

Broaddus gave a slight nod to Dez, but indicated Jones is better in some areas while Dez is better in others. The importance of those "areas" is likely relative to which team's fan you're asking.

Neither one of them is Megatron at his peak, IMO. Megatron had the speed and those things where Julio is better but he also had the size/strength and ability to play the ball in the air like Dez.

But I'm not giving you my view of Dez vs. Julio or a fan's view but DeAngelo Hall's view. DeAngelo Hall has been going against Dez since Dez came into the league. He also went up against Julio.

I would think he could tell who is better. He may not have gone up against Julio recently, but he has the comparison of Dez entering the league vs. Julio entering the league. He also has experience in knowing how Dez played then and how Dez plays now. And even though he may not have played against Julio recently, he has the knowledge base to know how much players improve over the course of a career.

For example, if I've been in the league 10 years, and I've faced 10 different receivers at each point within their careers, that will give me a pretty good gauge on how much a player improves from year to year. And I can likely anticipate how much better another player is going to get within a certain growth range. A player, for example, who runs 4.3 coming into the league is not going to run 4.1 three years later. So you can basically calculate he's not going to be much faster. Same with physicality.

Moreover, DeAngelo Hall has access to tape. He catch watch tape on Julio Jones, especially if the Skins are preparing for a team that Atlanta has played.

Again, I offered what Hall said about Dez. And since he actually plays the game and played both Dez and Julio, and I merely have an opinion, I lean toward his opinion.

 

[AsthmaField]

JJ is extremely talented but he's also very brittle.

He should be brittle... he's in his 70's.

Oh, my bad. Wrong JJ.

 

[AsthmaField]

If Atlanta has a media-scout equivalent to Broaddus, I'm certain that Julio won that review. Also, if there is a thread like this on a Falcon's board, Julio is likely the "best" according to all posts.

I would be curious to know the opinion of D-Coordinators or defensive players that have faced both players.

I can only speak for myself, but if I were a Falcons fan, I still would think Dez is the better player.

I had no trouble back in the day saying that Rice was better than Irvin. I had no problem saying that Barry Sanders was the better pure RB over Emmitt. I would have no trouble saying Jones is better than Dez if that's what I thought, but I don't.

Jones scares DB's with his speed... Dez just scares them period. Even on run downs the corners get to look forward to Dez pounding on them before the RB even gets there. Bryant is just so strong.

Jones is good and I understand what you're saying about team affiliation... but it wouldn't matter to me. If I thought Jones was better, I'd say it. But he isn't.

 

[jobberone]

Just give me a step and good hands.

 

[xwalker]

I can only speak for myself, but if I were a Falcons fan, I still would think Dez is the better player.

I had no trouble back in the day saying that Rice was better than Irvin. I had no problem saying that Barry Sanders was the better pure RB over Emmitt. I would have no trouble saying Jones is better than Dez if that's what I thought, but I don't.

Jones scares DB's with his speed... Dez just scares them period. Even on run downs the corners get to look forward to Dez pounding on them before the RB even gets there. Bryant is just so strong.

Jones is good and I understand what you're saying about team affiliation... but it wouldn't matter to me. If I thought Jones was better, I'd say it. But he isn't.

I believe you might be able to be unbiased, that that is a very tare trait in sports fandom.

 

[xwalker]

But I'm not giving you my view of Dez vs. Julio or a fan's view but DeAngelo Hall's view. DeAngelo Hall has been going against Dez since Dez came into the league. He also went up against Julio.

I would think he could tell who is better. He may not have gone up against Julio recently, but he has the comparison of Dez entering the league vs. Julio entering the league. He also has experience in knowing how Dez played then and how Dez plays now. And even though he may not have played against Julio recently, he has the knowledge base to know how much players improve over the course of a career.

For example, if I've been in the league 10 years, and I've faced 10 different receivers at each point within their careers, that will give me a pretty good gauge on how much a player improves from year to year. And I can likely anticipate how much better another player is going to get within a certain growth range. A player, for example, who runs 4.3 coming into the league is not going to run 4.1 three years later. So you can basically calculate he's not going to be much faster. Same with physicality.

Moreover, DeAngelo Hall has access to tape. He catch watch tape on Julio Jones, especially if the Skins are preparing for a team that Atlanta has played.

Again, I offered what Hall said about Dez. And since he actually plays the game and played both Dez and Julio, and I merely have an opinion, I lean toward his opinion.

You might analyze it that way with that much thought given to the details, but I think you're giving Hall way too much credit. As Forest Gump would say about himself, I'll say about Hall "not a smart man".

 

[tyke1doe]

You might analyze it that way with that much thought given to the details, but I think you're giving Hall way too much credit. As Forest Gump would say about himself, I'll say about Hall "not a smart man".

If I'm seeking advice from Hall on stocks and investments, maybe I agree with you.

If I'm seeking his advice on the best receivers based on his 12 years as an NFL cornerback, I very much consider what he has to say. Compared to most, he is an expert in this area.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

Sorry guys Julio>Dez. Julio's game will have more longevity than Dez's.

 

[muck4doo]

I would think that some observers could honestly say yes to that question. There was comparison talk concerning Michael Irvin and Jerry Rice during their era. I would have never considered trading Irvin for Rice back then and would still not do so retroactively. That opinion does not change my other opinion that Rice was the better of the two receivers. In similar fashion, I can see myself saying Bryant as the better player over Jones even if their roster positions were reversed.

Rice was great, but made his career on the quick slants. Montana really didn't have a strong arm(The Catch was Joe trying to throw the ball out of the end zone, but didn't have the arm). Young had a better arm, but 49er style football was already established. Rice was an excellent fit for it. Irvin was better on the outside, and fit our scheme excellently. I would have taken Moss over Rice if we could have added either to our team.

/We did want to draft Rice, but the Whiners traded up to get him.

 

[xwalker]

Ok, I think you are misreading what Im saying. Im not saying that TDs are the only stat that matters. However, when you have a player that is said to be than another player, and in 27 extra targets that player is still 10 TDs behind the other one then you have to start questioning his production.

Atlanta has been 2nd the last 2 years in passing attempts. So, unless you can show where Dallas was a pass first team and Irvin didnt get TDs still then your argument is null and void. Irvin was on a run first team and was used as a possession guy. Julio is not a possession guy.

Julio had 1593 yards a 6 TDs to Dez' 1320 yards and 16 TDs. You can not convince me that 273 yards is more important than scoring 60 more points.

Irvin a possession receiver? I can't imagine any adult Cowboys fan that watched Irvin in the early nineties thought be was a possession receiver.

I would need to know the percentage of time Atlanta failed to get a TD when they were in the redzone in order to get a feel for whether or not that was a problem for them. If it was not a problem, then any lack of TDs by Jones was probably not an issue. Some offenses scheme to get the ball to certain players in the redzone. The Cowboys obviously don't go to Witten too often in the RZ. It's possible Jones just gets too much focus from defenders in the RZ and their QB and OC don't want to force the issue.

The simple answer is always the game footage. If Alanta and Dallas had any common opponents in 2014, it would be good to review those games. That will be easy to do in 2015.

I realize I'm spinning my wheels trying to get a poster on a Cowboys forum with a Dez avatar to really approach to this issue without bias. That's fine because bias is just part of being a sports fan.

My feeling is that Dez is probably better, but I would need more than the extra TDs to make that determination. I'll probably review Jones on the All-22 from previous seasons, but the best games will be this up coming season because of multiple common opponents.

 

[Enlightened32]

Irvin a possession receiver? I can't imagine any adult Cowboys fan that watched Irvin in the early nineties thought be was a possession receiver.

I would need to know the percentage of time Atlanta failed to get a TD when they were in the redzone in order to get a feel for whether or not that was a problem for them. If it was not a problem, then any lack of TDs by Jones was probably not an issue. Some offenses scheme to get the ball to certain players in the redzone. The Cowboys obviously don't go to Witten too often in the RZ. It's possible Jones just gets too much focus from defenders in the RZ and their QB and OC don't want to force the issue.

The simple answer is always the game footage. If Alanta and Dallas had any common opponents in 2014, it would be good to review those games. That will be easy to do in 2015.

I realize I'm spinning my wheels trying to get a poster on a Cowboys forum with a Dez avatar to really approach to this issue without bias. That's fine because bias is just part of being a sports fan.

My feeling is that Dez is probably better, but I would need more than the extra TDs to make that determination. I'll probably review Jones on the All-22 from previous seasons, but the best games will be this up coming season because of multiple common opponents.

I do not think that means what you think it means. Otherwise Id have to question how you figure Im wrong.

 

[sideon]

Sorry guys Julio>Dez. Julio's game will have more longevity than Dez's.

Not if he keeps getting hurt every season.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Here is a question. Collectively, which Top 2 class was better 2010 ( Thomas, Bryant ) or 2011 ( Green, Jones)

 

[perrykemp]

Here is a question. Collectively, which Top 2 class was better 2010 ( Thomas, Bryant ) or 2011 ( Green, Jones)

Both classes have 4 WRs that went over 1000 yards in the career at some point. Having said the sheer 2014 productivity of the top 4 of 2010 (Bryant, Thomas, Brown, and Tate) is mind numbing.

2010 was a tremendous WR class:

Dez Bryant
Demaryous Thomas
Antonio Brown
Golden Tate
Riley Cooper (not great, but productive)
Brandon Lafel (not great, but productive)

2011 class of WRs was good at the top end of the draft, but not especially overall:

AJ Green
Julio Jones
Randall Cobb
Torrey Smith

 

[mahoneybill]

My only problem with Dez is that he blocked me on Twitter, and I have no idea why. I've never tweeted the man, nor said anything disparaging about him on Twitter.

Maybe he thought your were Arod instead of Erod, and blocked you because you make big $$$$$$$$

 

[xwalker]

I do not think that means what you think it means. Otherwise Id have to question how you figure Im wrong.

No, I know exactly what is means; however, it appears that you are wrong in regards to what you believe that it means.

 

[xwalker]

If I'm seeking advice from Hall on stocks and investments, maybe I agree with you.

If I'm seeking his advice on the best receivers based on his 12 years as an NFL cornerback, I very much consider what he has to say. Compared to most, he is an expert in this area.

If you believe that Hall thought through all of the things you mentioned in the previous post before opening his mouth about whatever he said, then I have some Ocean Front Property in Kansas to offer you at a great price.

 

[Enlightened32]

No, I know exactly what is means; however, it appears that you are wrong in regards to what you believe that it means.

I remember him more for converting 1st downs than TDs, however, seeing that he had a career yards per reception higher than Randy Moss, I have to concede to you sir.

You are correct.