Defensive Passer Rating will once again doom this team

[Idgit]

It seems we've been stuck in that rut for some time. We're just one more CB away from some serious pay dirt.

Yeah, the issue isn't at CB.

 

[Clove]

Right now, there's nothing we can do now, we have who we have. But what we do need to do is be opportunistic and try to at least confuse offenses and get takeaways. But more importantly, we need our offense to act like they are good, or at least pretend to be. I don't think I've seen offenses roll over our defense from the beginning to the end of the game except maybe Denver. I find that the defense usually holds the opponents offense at the beginning through the middle part of the game, but the offense never gets moving. The defense can't hold up that long, so what we really need is for our offense to start getting in gear.

 

[jobberone]

I agree with the premise of this post.

I would love to see this team wind up in the top-10 of defensive passer rating.

That'd be a trick. And we'd be a SB contender.

 

[khiladi]

The Cowboys under Tony Romo have won double digit games in every season where the DPR has been 16th (so league average) or better. That really isn't asking much, but apparently it is. Defensive Passer Rating has been the other thing that has KILLED this team the past 3 seasons from postseason success.

2013:
Offensive Passer Rating: 6th
Defensive Passer Rating: 22nd
Passer Rating Differential: 12th (Top 5 Teams in Passer Rating Differential are a combined 45-15 currently; Equivalent of a 12.0 win season)

2012:
Offensive Passer Rating: 9th
Defensive Passer Rating: 29th
Passer Rating Differential:18th (Top 5 Teams in Passer Rating Differential went 59-20-1; Equivalent of a 11.8 win season)

2011:
Offensive Passer Rating: 4th
Defensive Passer Rating: 25th
Passer Rating Differential: 9th (Top 5 Teams in Passer Rating Differential went 63-17; Equivalent of a 12.6 win season)

To be in the top 5 in passer rating differential with no changes from the offense would require Dallas to have a 81.14 Defensive Passer Rating. That wouldn't require the Pass D be top ten in the league, but it seems virtually impossible at this stage in the game.

What's passer rating primarily based on? Yardage?

If that's the case, you can get your yardage in bunches offensively in one quarter, like the fourth, while continuing to hand the ball over to the opposing offense the rest of the game to make your defense have to hold down the fort and give up yardage.

I don't buy the argument we've been effective 'passing-wise offensively', especially against good teams.

 

[KJJ]

It seems we've been stuck in that rut for some time. We're just one more CB away from some serious pay dirt.

We can't seem to come up with a great player at the position and it's not like the Cowboys haven't tried. They invested a #1 in Jenkins who never saw a second contract. They spent $50 million on Carr who's nothing more than an above average corner you could see that when he was in KC. He'll make some real good plays and give up several big plays which has been the story for a lot of the players on the defense. The Cowboys moved up for Claiborne in the draft who they thought would be an impact player and so far he's been a bust. He hasn't even come close to being the corner Terrence Newman was. He hasn't even been as good as Jenkins.

Currently Sean Lee is the only consistent player on the defense. He makes play after play while everyone else has been inconsistent. Injuries and age have Ware in decline he's clearly not the impact player he was. Some thought Bruce Carter might develop into an even better player than Lee and his play has been inconsistent to the point of getting him benched a few weeks ago. The Cowboys defense consists of mostly average to slightly above average players. For every good play the defense makes there's a couple of bad plays that keep opposing offenses on the field.

 

[DanteEXT]

I just mentioned "elimination games" in another thread. Cowboy FANS use injuries as an excuse every year. FANS search for excuses when their team isn't winning. The Cowboys lost Romo in 2010 who's without a doubt the Cowboys most valuable player but still went 5-3 on a team that was 1-7 with him. Even that team that's been dismantled showed it could step up even when losing it's most valuable player. The Packers are nothing without Rodgers just look at them. The Cowboys spent $50 million on a free agent corner and used the 6th pick in the draft 2 years ago on another corner to improve their pass coverage and it's gotten worse. No matter who they put in there players are always caught out of position.

Everyone made a big deal last season about Carter and Lee being out but this season with them the D has been giving up a franchise record number of yards. Carter got benched for awhile and so did Claiborne. No matter who the Cowboys have on their DL or a LB or in their secondary they can't stop anyone. There's coaching issues and some of the players they've been counting on like Claiborne just aren't that good.

The Cowboys were 1-4 when he got hurt in the Giants game. That team went 5-3 AFTER Wade was fired.

The Cowboys, unlike the Packers, are struggling because they failed to keep an decent backup QB on their roster. If they had a Kitna like guy on their roster they wouldn't be in such a mess. It's called depth.

Which still brings us back around to the OP subject you ignored. The Cowboys not only lost half their DL starters, but their depth behind them all before the season started. You're whining about the back end. In case you didn't know, all these positions have to work as a team. If the front end does not or cannot do it's job, doesn't matter how good the back end is. Which is what Corso was commenting on as to how it is related to the current defensive passer rating of the team and whether it would have made a difference this season.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

What's passer rating based on? Yardage?

It's the same factors as what are used to figure passer rating.

 

[khiladi]

I just mentioned "elimination games" in another thread. Cowboy FANS use injuries as an excuse every year. FANS search for excuses when their team isn't winning. The Cowboys lost Romo in 2010 who's without a doubt the Cowboys most valuable player but still went 5-3 on a team that was 1-7 with him.

Imagine if the defense generated 27 TOs with Romo that year, instead of 4, like they did when Kitna was in, when Kitna himself threw 12 INTs and fumbled 6 times on his own...

 

[khiladi]

It's the same factors as what are used to figure passer rating.

Looking at that passing rating formula at a short glance, I don't even think it affects my assertion overall in relation to us. Dallas, for example, was amongst the worst in first half scoring last year and sucked in third down situations. On the other hand, offense shot up dramatically in the second half, many times playing from behind and up-tempo, which could obviously give passer rating a higher weight.

You can't simply say, "well, the passer rating was high and it's our defenses fault"... TOP plays into effect if the offense sucks a whole quarter and a half, and the defense is trying to control the other team.

 

[jobberone]

I didn't read the entire article so if I repeat forgive. Cover snaps are the key to assessing individual pass performance along with INTs. That still doesn't cover it all though.

Lee, OScan, and Church are the only players in coverage on the team with positive stats.

 

[Risen Star]

We can't seem to come up with a great player at the position and it's not like the Cowboys haven't tried. They invested a #1 in Jenkins who never saw a second contract. They spent $50 million on Carr who's nothing more than an above average corner you could see that when he was in KC. He'll make some real good plays and give up several big plays which has been the story for a lot of the players on the defense. The Cowboys moved up for Claiborne in the draft who they thought would be an impact player and so far he's been a bust. He hasn't even come close to being the corner Terrence Newman was. He hasn't even been as good as Jenkins.

Currently Sean Lee is the only consistent player on the defense. He makes play after play while everyone else has been inconsistent. Injuries and age have Ware in decline he's clearly not the impact player he was. Some thought Bruce Carter might develop into an even better player than Lee and his play has been inconsistent to the point of getting him benched a few weeks ago. The Cowboys defense consists of mostly average to slightly above average players. For every good play the defense makes there's a couple of bad plays that keep opposing offenses on the field.

Well I don't know about you but I say we keep adding cornerbacks until something sticks.

You know, like all the teams adding titles have done.

 

[KJJ]

The Cowboys were 1-4 when he got hurt in the Giants game. That team went 5-3 AFTER Wade was fired.

The Cowboys, unlike the Packers, are struggling because they failed to keep an decent backup QB on their roster. If they had a Kitna like guy on their roster they wouldn't be in such a mess. It's called depth.

Which still brings us back around to the OP subject you ignored. The Cowboys not only lost half their DL starters, but their depth behind them all before the season started. You're whining about the back end. In case you didn't know, all these positions have to work as a team. If the front end does not or cannot do it's job, doesn't matter how good the back end is. Which is what Corso was commenting on as to how it is related to the current defensive passer rating of the team and whether it would have made a difference this season.

Correct after Wade was fired the Cowboys went 5-3 but they still only won 1 game with Romo that season. As for the OP's subject regardless of the loss of players prior to the start of this season the D looked awful last season when they were much healthier to start the season. They started last season with Spencer in the lineup and were still getting chewed up. In week 2 they couldn't do anything to disrupt Russell Wilson who was a rookie. Marshawn Lynch was in beast mode putting up 122 yards on the defense.The Cowboys had 2 rookie RB's put up over 100 yards on them last season and one of them Morris had a 100 yard game vs the Cowboys and a 200 yard rushing performance against them. The defense was so bad last season it got Ryan fired even though that unit was hit by injuries later in the season. Jerry said you can never count on having a healthy team as the season goes on because injuries are going to happen.

In 2007 when the Cowboys lost to the Giants in the playoffs a lot FANS used TO's injury as an excuse claiming had he been 100% the Cowboys would have won. Those same FANS were using a healthy TO as an excuse for ruining the 08 season. Like I said when you're not winning FANS look for any excuse to point the finger of blame at. If it's not injuries it's the refs calls. I was on a board back in 02 where a Cowboys FAN claimed the teams 5-11 seasons were all due to the NFL fixing games against the Cowboys. LOL If the Cowboys defense was 100% healthy they might not be setting franchise futility records this season but they would still be having issues making stops. A lot of the plays they've given up have been due to players being out of position. Even Lee struggled early in the season being in position. He got caught out of position a couple of times vs the Chiefs in week 2.

 

[KJJ]

Well I don't know about you but I say we keep adding cornerbacks until something sticks.

You know, like all the teams adding titles have done.

If you remember several years ago the Cowboys drafted 3 corners and none of them turned into real good players. Mario Edwards stuck for awhile but he was an average player at best. Seattle struck gold with Richard Sherman in the 2011 draft. He was a 5th round pick and is arguably the best corner in the league right now. The Cowboys have had some real misses at corner dating back to the early 80's with Rod Hill followed by Dwayne Goodrich and now Claiborne may be added to that miss list.

 

[5Stars]

What's passer rating primarily based on? Yardage?

If that's the case, you can get your yardage in bunches offensively in one quarter, like the fourth, while continuing to hand the ball over to the opposing offense the rest of the game to make your defense have to hold down the fort and give up yardage.

I don't buy the argument we've been effective 'passing-wise offensively', especially against good teams.

I agree, what is up with that? The Cowboys should come out swinging, use that two minute offense from the start.

But, if they did that, it would put the defense back on the field, again. And the defense is not good right now.

The Cowboys just need to watch the clock. Don't wear out all the players at the same time. The game is 60 minutes long. Play smarter, not harder.

(stupid cowboy fans)

 

[jobberone]

We have one CB playing better than average and that is OScan. We have one safety and one LB covering above average. So we need better CB play and I would say another CB. O/W Carr and Claiborne and ??? need to step up. Same with Carter and whomever the other LBer is. And while you're wishing get Spencer, Crawford and Bass back, resign Hatcher cheap, and Ware at full strength. Then find another DT or two and a pass rusher to put pressure on them all and add depth.

 

[KJJ]

Before the start of every season you can name the players on the Cowboys roster who will miss some games due to injuries. We all know Austin is going to miss some games with his hamstring it happens every year. We all know Murray isn't going to play a full 16 games without coming up with an injury and the same with Sean Lee.

If you're going to use injuries as an excuse every year for why the Cowboys aren't winning you'll be doing it every season because injuries are part of the game and they will happen. You can only hope you don't lose your QB because losing your QB is a good excuse for not winning. That's a hard injury for any team to overcome at least during this era.

 

[percyhoward]

You can't simply say, "well, the passer rating was high and it's our defenses fault"... TOP plays into effect if the offense sucks a whole quarter and a half, and the defense is trying to control the other team.

If you time each opponent's drive and take the average, you see Dallas near the bottom of the league defensively (26th) in TOP in 2012. The offense was near the top (4th) in the average time of their drives last year.

This year, defensively we've jumped up to 19th. That difference from last year is almost all due to takeaways. Counting only the non-takeaway drives, we rank 24th. In percentage of drives that end in punts, our defense ranks 31st, ahead of only Chicago.

Offensively, we fallen all the way to 18th in TOP per drive, and we're 28th in lowest percentage of drives ending in punts. IOW, only four teams punt more often than the Cowboys.

 

[Kristen82]

Meanwhile Sherman was a 5th-round pick, Browner was a refugee from the CFL, Thurmond was a 4th pick, Maxwell was a 6th...

 

[visionary]

Well I don't know about you but I say we keep adding cornerbacks until something sticks.

You know, like all the teams adding titles have done.

Agreed
I say sign the highest paid CB in FA and then spend our first and second round picks on CBs

All great defences are built outside in
This is a passing league so load up on CBs
A great secondary will result in a ton of coverage sacks

Recipe for success

 

[visionary]

I agree, Mike.

What this team needs to focus on is trying to out cover opponents. Get by up front with stiffs and really build the back end with coverage players. Spend your resources there.

We should try that. What could possibly go wrong?

We have just not spent enough resources on CBs
No wonder we are mediocre

More CBs I say