Dez Bryant - A Man With No Position

[MWH1967]

I'm a bit amazed he's even attempting to rejoin the Cowboys after having badmouthed them so much after he left. He's dreaming, imho.

Shows you Jerry's humility. He's a people person. Spots aside..this is a great treat. doesn't work in the grand scream of things but, he loves his people.

 

[Kwyn]

Wait...so your argument against Dez playing slot WR is that he would get washed out by a LBer?
Seriously? I would take Dez one on one against any LBer in the game.....and I’m pretty sure no DC would be dumb enough to pretend a LBer is enough to hold Dez...

If Dez were an eagle and our plan was to put Sean Lee or Jaylon Smith on him you would be crapping yourself all week.

No, I wouldn’t.

The LB doesn’t cover the slot, they line up over then and tie them up when they try to get off the line. They don’t have to run stride for stride down the field and then get in front of the receiver to break up the pass. That’s not how defenses work

the LB’s job is to jam the slot if they can, then trail the play providing cover in the passing lane between the QB and the slot. It’s a safety or 3rd CB who actually defends the pass

what I am saying is that I doubt Dez is quick enough to avoid that initial jam and not strong enough to fight through it to even get to the part of the play where he is able to get into his route and find open space

LVE or Jaylon are both faster than Dez and both are much, much stronger

I like their odds, and frankly most LB odds against Dez in the slot .

If Dez is going to play it’s going to have to be as a 4th wide receiver, lining up outside, on the line, against a teams 3rd or 4th CB.

• He can’t play the X - too slow
• He can’t play the Z - too slow and no quickness
• He can’t play the slot - too slow and no quickness

the title of the thread was intentional. There is really not a spot in most current NFL offenses for a player with Dez’s skill set other than a 4th or 5th receiver who gets 15-25 targets a year.

He’s be taking Tayvon Austin’s spot, if he were lucky but even that’s unlikely because Tayvon can backuo the X or Y due to his speed and Dez can only backup the X

 

[Whyjerry]

I know we have several Dez posts and threads but today I’m asking for some patience with a new one because I want to talk about the receiver position and the right end position and what role Dez can actually fill in the 2020 NFL.

For the record, Im a Dez fan. He’s in my sig, I met him irl and he was great, etc etc etc. If the Cowboys want to give Dez a tryout, Im good with it but I think we need to be realistic

Many fans are arguing that Dez can either play the slot WR role or play TE. I think this is simply incorrect and I’ll state why.

First, some physical stats on Dez because they are important.

Dez is 6’2 and 220 lbs.
His 40 time as a rookie was 4.52

Tight End

• He’s never played tight end
• He’s extremely undersized for the position. Check out the best tight ends in the league. 6’4-6’6 and 245-260 lbs
• He was never fast and now he’s probably around 4.6-4.7 range which is only average for a decent tight end. I think 4.6 is a fantasy for him at this point but we won’t know unless he goes on the clock which, no surprise, is not something he’s doing in any of his dozens of “skills” videos. The best tight ends are at 4.6 or better now.
• He was never a good blocker. He was ok, but that was against DB’s. Linebackers and d-linemen would destroy him and all tight ends, even those who are more of a passing game threat go up against d-linemen and linebackers all day long. Its an inescapable fact of NFL life.
• Bottom line, Tight Ends are not just slow wide receivers.

Wide Receiver

• X Receiver (Split-End) Cooper - this is your #1 receiver, lines up wide, on the line, is set at the start of the play and can’t go into motion. Gets jammed by corners, faces the best man to man defender and needs to be fast and somewhat elusive to get out into his route.
  
• Z Receiver (Flanker) - Gallup - lines up opposite of the X and slightly off the line of scrimmage. If he lines up on the line, the TE is ineligible. Needs to be fast, cause he’s defended by CB’s, but being off the line isn’t as easily jammed. This is typically the “motion receiver” and you sometimes see them go across the middle or involved in reverses but they also will go deep at times. Typically a lot of speed.
• Slot Receiver - Cobb - this guy lines up closer to the interior of the line, almost always has a LB lines up across from him looking to hit him and keep him off his route. This guy needs to be quick and elusive or he’ll get caught in the wash and never be able to get open. This was Beasley for us before Cobb
• 4th receiver - you only see this when a team goes to a “10 personnel” set. This is the “spread” and is something McCarthy used to run in GB and it wasn’t particularly rare for him so it won’t surprise me one bit to see it used here. It’s just a fourth guy who lines up and usually runs a crossing route. Sometimes it’s a TE and not a WR at all
• Five wide receiver sets are Hail Marys and desperation pass situations. there’s no running back at all.

So, where’s Dez in that? Clearly he can’t be an effective TE and if you’re trying to make him your X, Z or Slot, you’re gonna have a bad time because he’s not fast or elusive enough to play any of them.

He could be a spread receiver and see spot play here and there, but wouldn’t you rather see a young WR talent develop with that roster spot than a 32 year old who hasn’t played for two years after an Achilles tear? A guy whose best plays, in his prime. were jump balls in the end zone and back shoulder fades?

I loved Dez but I just don’t see a good spot for him that couldn’t be filled better by a long list of rookies or young free agents.

Thanks for indulging me.

I am not a Dez fan. He was never worth the distraction and overrated in my mind. He had talent. A lot actually. He just didn’t work at his craft. As soon as he lost a little edge he was done. That said, I would be in favor of brining him back at a cheap rate. I think he would be a good replacement for Cobb and very good in the slot. Slants, seam routes, bubble screens, a couple reverses. Get Dez the ball quickly and let him run people over. He was always a punishing runner. I think he has value at the slot.

They MUST be confident he has matured though.

 

[BigStar]

Rose colored glasses maybe?

The Dez you describe hasn’t played in the NFL since 2014.

His productivity certainly related to his athletic ability but it was also a product of him being the focal point of the offense. Linehan and the Cowboys threw it to him often.

From 2012-2014 the Cowboys targeted Dez an avg of 144 times a season. He averaged over 13 TD’s a season during that span

In 2017, when they targeted him 132 times, he only managed 6 TD’s

His decline was on him but he just didn’t see it which is the norm.

For Red Zone productivity it looked like this during his three year prime (He really just had a three year prime)

• 2012 - 14 tgt, 4 TD
• 2013 - 20 tgt, 10 TD
• 2014 - 14 tgt, 8 TD

In his last season, they again tried to force the ball to him in the red zone and the results weren’t great and his productivity fell off the table from his prime years.

• 2017 - 20 tgt, 5 TD

In a 4th receiver role, say he replaces Tayvon Austin, you’re looking at 25 targets or so for the entire season. You might be lucky to see 1 TD if he were in that role.

Now, if you think he’ll get targets over the starting X, Z or Slot receivers, then you’re talking about replacing Cooper, Gallup or Cobb and that’s just not going to happen

I think lots of folks imagine red zone and TD pass attempts as being plentiful things. They’re not. We only had 61 red zone passing attempts the entire year and the vast majority of the time your 4th receiver isn’t even on the field because teams don’t run the spread in that part of the field.

Wow, you really hate Dez

 

[Kwyn]

So nothing else changed between 2014 and 2017 then? Just Dez? Hmmmm.




You have no idea of how, what, where or when his targets would come from, spare all of us your "1 TD" bull.



Again, spare us the lame prognostication.



And "lots of folks imagine" that their narrow minded, myopic opinions are facts. "They're not."

Don’t be so lazy. My arguments were based on the way offenses and defenses are built and intended to operate.

Your arguments essentially amount to “nuh uh!”

To think that Mike McCarthy is going to build his offense around having an aging, out of the league for two years, Achilles rehabbing WR who can’t play any of the three primary WR roles in his offense is a fantasy

And that doesn’t even touch on the issue of how Dez was viewed as people who are still leaders on the team.

Your fandom is showing through.

 

[Kwyn]

Why are so many fearful of giving Dez a tryout? Many 31 year old pro bowl receivers had plenty left in the tank. I mean it's a tryout folks...sheesh, you act like a spot on a 90+ roster in training camp, that we see 3rd string guards known as camp fodder being looked at by some folks as the equivalent of a high round draft pick when in actuality it's the same as an undrafted FA.

I have no problem with Dez getting a tryout. There are many fans though who think Dez is going to come in and catch 40 balls and 5 TD’s or play Tight End, and that’s just crazy

 

[Canada180]

Skip on by these nuts

Another great addition to the thread. Your legend grows. Lotsa other threads to post in, but you choose the one that you dislike the most. Genius right there ladies and gentlemen. Apologies to OP for derailing his/her intent.

 

[Stash]

Don’t be so lazy. My arguments were based on the way offenses and defenses are built and intended to operate.

Your arguments essentially amount to “nuh uh!”

Your arrogance is unearned. You're offering your opinion and nothing more.

To think that Mike McCarthy is going to build his offense around having an aging, out of the league for two years, Achilles rehabbing WR who can’t play any of the three primary WR roles in his offense is a fantasy

More "fantasy" on clear display. Nobody ever said anything about "McCarthy building his offense around" anybody. But when your theory gets shot to hell, resort to a Strawman. It's a typical tactic when people are losing arguments.

And that doesn’t even touch on the issue of how Dez was viewed as people who are still leaders on the team.

Yeah? Who's that?

Your fandom is showing through.

As is your agenda. Exposed.

 

[Stash]

I have no problem with Dez getting a tryout. There are many fans though who think Dez is going to come in and catch 40 balls and 5 TD’s or play Tight End, and that’s just crazy

Then take it up with them!

Because the people you're arguing with now are in the "tryout" camp, not any nonsense about TE.

 

[Kwyn]

And yet people still bring up the name Noah Brown as some viable option for this team?

It's clearly personal with Dez. Some people see him as the Big, Bad Wolf and it colors every other part of their perspective.

I’m sure it is for some, just like some people hate on any other player for personal reasons

It’s not like that for me. I was a big Dez fan line I mentioned in the OP.

 

[Stash]

I’m sure it is for some, just like some people hate on any other player for personal reasons

It’s not like that for me. I was a big Dez fan line I mentioned in the OP.

And then proceeded to trash him with every post.

 

[Kwyn]

Your arrogance is unearned. You're offering your opinion and nothing more.



More "fantasy" on clear display. Nobody ever said anything about "McCarthy building his offense around" anybody. But when your theory gets shot to hell, resort to a Strawman. It's a typical tactic when people are losing arguments.



Yeah? Who's that?



As is your agenda. Exposed.

You didn’t shoot any argument to hell. In fact you offered nothing but a weak personal attack based on your emotion.

It’s fine. The board is full of posters who respond like that but don’t pretend that you’re contributing to the discussion.

“Losing the argument”

/snort

We would need to be engaged in an argument for that to happen.

Now, if you would like to start a thread titled “Nanny Nanny Noo Noo, Stick Your Head In Doo Doo”, I might respond with the counter of “I’m rubber your glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you”

That might be an argument where you are able to speak with some well-founded knowledge and skill.

For now, this is a thread about football. Try to keep up.

 

[Stash]

You didn’t shoot any argument to hell. In fact you offered nothing but a weak personal attack based on your emotion.

It’s fine. The board is full of posters who respond like that but don’t pretend that you’re contributing to the discussion.

“Losing the argument”

/snort

We would need to be engaged in an argument for that to happen.

Now, if you would like to start a thread titled “Nanny Nanny Noo Noo, Stick Your Head In Doo Doo”, I might respond with the counter of “I’m rubber your glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you”

That might be an argument where you are able to speak with some well-founded knowledge and skill.

For now, this is a thread about football. Try to keep up.

When it starts to have anything resembling facts, it will be. But newsflash, this is nothing more than another internet guy who thinks he's smart trying to pass off his opinions as if they're facts.

And failing miserably.

 

[Kwyn]

And then proceeded to trash him with every post.

I can make an objective opinion about how I feel his skill set has deteriorated to the point that the things he once did well he can no longer do and the things that people now are arguing he should do he was *never* able to do.

I’m just afraid the game has passed him by. That’s the entire point of my OP.

There’s not anything personal about it or “trashing” involved.

Players get old, suffer injuries and lose their physical abilities. That’s why window of an athletes career is so short.

Nothing personal about it at all. It’s just life.

 

[Kwyn]

When it starts to have anything resembling facts, it will be. But newsflash, this is nothing more than another internet guy who thinks he's smart trying to pass off his opinions as if they're facts.

And failing miserably.

You /pwned yourself in this thread when you first chimed in. You’re just making it worse.

 

[G2]

Bryant isn't starting over Cooper, Gallup or Cobb. And I highly doubt he'll get even a 4th or 5th spot that is designated for young WRs who are developing.
Bryant isn't developing in the right direction.

 

[Stash]

I can make an objective opinion about how I feel his skill set has deteriorated to the point that the things he once did well he can no longer do and the things that people now are arguing he should do he was *never* able to do.

Then label it as such, and don't try to pass of your opinion as fact.

I’m just afraid the game has passed him by. That’s the entire point of my OP.

There’s not anything personal about it or “trashing” involved.

Players get old, suffer injuries and lose their physical abilities. That’s why window of an athletes career is so short.

Nothing personal about it at all. It’s just life.

And potentially completely inaccurate. Something easily proven by a workout, or better yet, an entire offseason program. But certainly not based on one person's opinion.

 

[Stash]

You /pwned yourself in this thread when you first chimed in. You’re just making it worse.

No, I /pwned you, a guy that thinks he's smarter than he is, trying to pass off his baseless opinions as facts.

 

[Stash]

Bryant isn't starting over Cooper, Gallup or Cobb. And I highly doubt he'll get even a 4th or 5th spot that is designated for young WRs who are developing.
Bryant isn't developing in the right direction.

Who is here?

Cedrick Wilson? Or is it Noah Brown? Or maybe it's Ventell Bryant?

It's not like there's much in the way of 'developing competition'.

 

[G2]

Who is here?

Cedrick Wilson? Or is it Noah Brown? Or maybe it's Ventell Bryant?

It's not like there's much in the way of 'developing competition'.

Oh, we're going by last year's roster? What sense does that make?