Dez: Washington needs to get their money back

[GimmeTheBall!]

Dez burn't him several times and Dak just didn't see him. If Romo played in that game Norman would have been torched most of the day.

Dear me. Such delusion.
As the wooden boy and mermaid sang to Nemo and Alladin, "Let it go ..."
You can reach me at the Cong San Y'all Nail Salon, where Jinny will work on my ingrown toenail. She is cutie patootie!

 

[MRV52]

Dear me. Such delusion.
As the wooden boy and mermaid sang to Nemo and Alladin, "Let it go ..."
You can reach me at the Cong San Y'all Nail Salon, where Jinny will work on my ingrown toenail. She is cutie patootie!

 

[ConstantReboot]

That has nothing to do with Dez reacting and saying what he did after the game. Dez didn't say, "The refs need to check what he's doing on the field." Rather, he talked about Norman's salary and went on and on about his play. THAT'S getting into a player's head.


I really don't care about what Norman does. I care about what Dez does because he plays for this team. And, again, apparently Jason Garrett, the Cowboys and Dez care too, which is why Dez apologized.

NO it has nothing to do with Dez. However, the NFL and especially the refs let this escalate to the point where its has spilled over after the game. Maybe if the refs would have thrown a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct on Norman and the possibility of him being thrown out of the game, maybe just maybe it wouldn't have escalated the way it did.

 

[tyke1doe]

As always you refuse to answer the question asked of you.
Norman covered Dez only 15 plays and Dez had 3 catches in those 15 plays. How many would Dez have needed to catch in these 15 plays for him to be effective by your moving standard?

Now once again show me where a player has gotten into Dez's head and had a negative impact on Dez's performance.

Btw 5 catches and 72 yards equates to 80 catches and 1100 yards on the season. I guess that's not good either?
Or how about this hurtful fact. If Norman would have covered Dez for the entire game (55 plays) he would have ended up with 11 catches for 106 yards. So year Norman really shut him down.

You are right. This is getting embarrassing...for you.

Stealing my lines, I see.

And no you didn't just offer that 5 catches equate 80 catches on the season. We're talking about a single game.
You're so desperate now you'really projecting beyond this single game.

Son, just stop. You first don't understand the context of this thread by arguing Malcolm Jenkins and a game two years ago. Then, when I use your own logic to support my argument you don't even recognize it. Then you want to project three catches over a whole year?

I guess if Dak completes 5 passes I can project that to 90 completions over a season.

 

[superonyx]

Stealing my lines, I see.

And no you didn't just offer that 5 catches equate 80 catches on the season. We're talking about a single game.
You're so desperate now you'really projecting beyond this single game.

Son, just stop. You first don't understand the context of this thread by arguing Malcolm Jenkins and a game two years ago. Then, when I use your own logic to support my argument you don't even recognize it. Then you want to project three catches over a whole year?

I guess if Dak completes 5 passes I can project that to 90 completions over a season.

At this point you must have given up on even trying to defend the stupid things you say.
You refuse to answer simple questions and when presented the facts about production you can only click more elementary emoji buttons.

Your beaten and embarrassed.

You did this to yourself.

 

[tyke1doe]

You refuse to answer simple questions and when presented the facts about production you can only click more elementary emoji buttons.

Because projections don't beat actuals. I've said this over and over and over again, but it bears repeating.

An actual almost ALWAYS beats a hypothetical or a projection. You didn't like the stats and facts or me using your own argument against you, so you shifted to a projection.

Sorry, I don't play the 20,000 questions game, especially dealing with hypotheticals and projections. I answered your question based on the stats and information you gave and the citation of the 3-32-0. You didn't like my solid answer so you just jumped to another tangential topic.

Your beaten and embarrassed.

It's you're not your. And I'm flattered that you're stealing my lines. Nothing to be embarrassed about that.

 

[superonyx]

Because projections don't beat actuals. I've said this over and over and over again, but it bears repeating.

An actual almost ALWAYS beats a hypothetical or a projection. You didn't like the stats and facts or me using your own argument against you, so you shifted to a projection.

Sorry, I don't play the 20,000 questions game, especially dealing with hypotheticals and projections. I answered your question based on the stats and information you gave and the citation of the 3-32-0. You didn't like my solid answer so you just jumped to another tangential topic.



It's you're not your. And I'm flattered that you're stealing my lines. Nothing to be embarrassed about that.

Another round of back and forth and another dodged question.
Let's deal with your Actuals then. Dez Was covered by Norman on 15 plays and he had 3 catches. So how many catches should he have had? 2 of the 3 catches were on 3rd downs and resulted in 1st downs. Many of the 15 plays were running plays.

Put your big girl panties on and answer the question.

Maybe you can email the guy who broke it down from PFF and explain to him how Norman beat Dez and how he is all wrong.

You know you are whipped when you feel it helpful to become the grammar police in a debate.
This is too easy.

 

[tyke1doe]

Another round of back and forth and another dodged question.
Let's deal with your Actuals then. Dez Was covered by Norman on 15 plays and he had 3 catches. So how many catches should he have had? 2 of the 3 catches were on 3rd downs and resulted in 1st downs. Many of the 15 plays were running plays.

You first. So 3-32-0 TDs is a good game to you? What objective data do you use to support your opinion?
Remember, you're the one who rambled about fact as opposed to opinion. So what credible source outside yourself tells you that 3-32 and 0 TDs is a good game, especially since you yourself cited 6-114-3 TDs as a great game?

Put your big girl panties on and answer the question.

I'll borrow yours after you answer my question - the one I asked you before you started ducking and dodging and moving on to another subject.

Maybe you can email the guy who broke it down from PFF and explain to him how Norman beat Dez and how he is all wrong.

You mean the guy you cited? Wait, you didn't cite him.

You know you are whipped when you feel it helpful to become the grammar police in a debate.

Actually, the grammar police issue is a courtesy. Think of it as a tip for service rendered.

This is too easy.

Actually, your pride is wounded. So you must keep going even though you said this was boring you and you said this was nonsense to you.
But I exposed your argument, ridiculed you and now you're invested.
No, it's not easy for you because pride dies very, very hard.

 

[birdwells1]

This whole thing stems from last year with Norman making the comment that Dallas should get its money back from Dez. In the league, or anywhere else for that matter, you don't talk about another man's money. That's why the first comment Dez made was that Washington should get their money back, Dez never forgot that statement and probably never will.

 

[superonyx]

You first. So 3-32-0 TDs is a good game to you? What objective data do you use to support your opinion?
Remember, you're the one who rambled about fact as opposed to opinion. So what credible source outside yourself tells you that 3-32 and 0 TDs is a good game, especially since you yourself cited 6-114-3 TDs as a great game?



I'll borrow yours after you answer my question - the one I asked you before you started ducking and dodging and moving on to another subject.



You mean the guy you cited? Wait, you didn't cite him.



Actually, the grammar police issue is a courtesy. Think of it as a tip for service rendered.



Actually, your pride is wounded. So you must keep going even though you said this was boring you and you said this was nonsense to you.
But I exposed your argument, ridiculed you and now you're invested.
No, it's not easy for you because pride dies very, very hard.

It was boring. But after a few PM's told me you would always need to get the last word it suddenly became more interesting.

As to your goofy question about 3 catches for 32 yards being considered a good game....What game did Dez have these 3 catches? I thought we were talking about the Thanksgiving game? If so then it was 3 catches for 32 yards in 15 plays vs Norman....Is this confusing to you?
So yes 3 catches for 32 yards in 15 offensive plays (many which were running plays) is actually very impressive. Ive asked you how many catches should Dez have made in only 15 plays but somehow you just cant answer it. Hmm..I wonder why?

I understand you infatuation with this thread but there is another one on the board which links the PFF breakdown on the matchup...Interesting read...Unless you have backed yourself into a corner like you have.
Here is the link so you don't have to search too hard to find out how wrong you are.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-how-dez-bryant-won-his-one-on-one-matchup-with-josh-norman/

Interesting its called "How Dez Bryant won his one on one matchup with Josh Norman"... Imagine that?

So go ahead and keep making yourself look even worse.

 

[tyke1doe]

It was boring. But after a few PM's told me you would always need to get the last word it suddenly became more interesting.

So basically you allowed someone else to override your better judgment. Doesn't sound like a strong-minded person to me.

As to your goofy question about 3 catches for 32 yards being considered a good game....What game did Dez have these 3 catches? I thought we were talking about the Thanksgiving game? If so then it was 3 catches for 32 yards in 15 plays vs Norman....Is this confusing to you?

Wait. So you ask me what game did Dez have three catches. Then you acknowledge that it was three catches for 32 yards in the Thanksgiving Day game. And you ask me if it's confusing for me?

I know what I've been talking about. I'm talking about the Thanksgiving Day game. You're the one who initially referenced a game two years ago involving Dez and Malcolm Jenkins.

So yes 3 catches for 32 yards in 15 offensive plays (many which were running plays) is actually very impressive.

I see you're back to agreeing with me that it was 3 catches for 32 yards after you asked me if I was confused.

To YOU 3 catches for 32 yards is impressive. But that's your opinion. And given that you had to reach for a 6 catch 114 yards 3 TD game two years ago, I don't think you're that convinced that it is. You're just arguing to save face; otherwise, you would have defended it earlier.

I've asked you how many catches should Dez have made in only 15 plays but somehow you just cant answer it. Hmm..I wonder why?

It's not answerable, that's why. It's a supposition. Again, you're the one who argued that you had facts not opinion. Besides, it's not just the catch, it's what Bryant does with the catch. If Bryant catches 5 passes, but they're on slant routes where Norman tackles him immediately for little yards, then that's a victory for Norman. So it's not just a matter of catches.
Remember, I'm using YOUR standard when you used stats from the Philly game to prove Dez can have a war of words with a player and perform positively. If that is the case, and you're relying strictly on stats, the converse is true also.
But I've already explained this repeatedly. If you can't grasp it, that's not my fault.

I understand you infatuation with this thread but there is another one on the board which links the PFF breakdown on the matchup...Interesting read...Unless you have backed yourself into a corner like you have.
Here is the link so you don't have to search too hard to find out how wrong you are.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-how-dez-bryant-won-his-one-on-one-matchup-with-josh-norman/

Interesting its called "How Dez Bryant won his one on one matchup with Josh Norman"... Imagine that?

Oooh, the linky dink. Well I can play that game too. See the headline on this one:

Stats don't support Dez Bryants claim that he dominated Josh Norman

So go ahead and keep making yourself look even worse.

I'm so impressed that you're so concerned about my well being. Unfortunately, we both know it's just your wounded pride talking.

 

[tyke1doe]

As an addendum:

I read the "How Dez Won His One-on-One Match Up with Norman" and excuse me for saying, but the author doesn't support his claim. He doesn't point out the other "non" plays where Dez won against Norman but didn't get the ball. He cites the lone missed throw to Dez.

I found this excerpt interesting:

Norman statistically may have gotten the better of Bryant, but the tape and grading show something different. One of the incompletions was a dropped pass from Bryant, a ball you would expect him to bring in. There’s certainly an argument to be made that Norman’s coverage on the play made it tough to catch and that he “forced” the drop, but there is no ready-made excuse for this play:

(video omitted for space)

There is nothing to save this play. Norman gets completely turned around and lost by Bryant on a deep route before Bryant cuts inside to the middle of the field – where there was no help. Bryant’s efforts didn’t amount to anything in the stat sheet, however, as the ball was thrown elsewhere underneath.

And there is no other citation of a "burn rate". Hhhhmmm.

So what we have is one example of a play where Norman is covering Dez and he drops the ball and another example of a play where Dez doesn't get the ball at all.

Actual vs. Hypothetical. Which carries the greater weight?

Be that as it may, my initial statement stands. Dez needs to ignore Norman. He doesn't need to let Norman get in his head. Other corners will use it to take him out of his game and get him focus on his own self-interest and not the overall interest of the team. And that's one reason he apologized, and I'm glad he did.

 

[superonyx]

So basically you allowed someone else to override your better judgment. Doesn't sound like a strong-minded person to me.



Wait. So you ask me what game did Dez have three catches. Then you acknowledge that it was three catches for 32 yards in the Thanksgiving Day game. And you ask me if it's confusing for me?

I know what I've been talking about. I'm talking about the Thanksgiving Day game. You're the one who initially referenced a game two years ago involving Dez and Malcolm Jenkins.



I see you're back to agreeing with me that it was 3 catches for 32 yards after you asked me if I was confused.

To YOU 3 catches for 32 yards is impressive. But that's your opinion. And given that you had to reach for a 6 catch 114 yards 3 TD game two years ago, I don't think you're that convinced that it is. You're just arguing to save face; otherwise, you would have defended it earlier.



It's not answerable, that's why. It's a supposition. Again, you're the one who argued that you had facts not opinion. Besides, it's not just the catch, it's what Bryant does with the catch. If Bryant catches 5 passes, but they're on slant routes where Norman tackles him immediately for little yards, then that's a victory for Norman. So it's not just a matter of catches.
Remember, I'm using YOUR standard when you used stats from the Philly game to prove Dez can have a war of words with a player and perform positively. If that is the case, and you're relying strictly on stats, the converse is true also.
But I've already explained this repeatedly. If you can't grasp it, that's not my fault.



Oooh, the linky dink. Well I can play that game too. See the headline on this one:

Stats don't support Dez Bryants claim that he dominated Josh Norman





I'm so impressed that you're so concerned about my well being. Unfortunately, we both know it's just your wounded pride talking.

Haha..Its not answerable because you have no answer that wouldn't make you look even more clueless than you already do.
Its about what he did with the catches...Hmm...He converted 2 of the catches into 1st downs on 3rd down. The third catch was on 1st down and he gained 9 yards....
Does this help you answer the "unanswerable" question yet?
I'll ask again so you can look even weaker trying to avoid answering it. How many catches would Dez have needed to make on 15 offensive plays to be considered good? Since 3 catches on 15 plays equates to 11 catches on the game I am very curious as to how many he would need to have had a good game?
In fact Dez's production was less when he went against anyone other than Norman in the last game. So this is just another example to prove my initial point that a guy like Norman doesn't get into Dez's head in a negative way...It motivates Dez more than it has a negative impact.

You made the statement that Norman got in Dez's head and it had an negative impact on Dez's game. Yet given chance after chance to back it up you fail.
You have been exposed.

Have fun repeating yourself and dancing around the facts. Yes facts.

 

[tyke1doe]

Haha..Its not answerable because you have no answer that wouldn't make you look even more clueless than you already do. Its about what he did with the catches...Hmm...He converted 2 of the catches into 1st downs on 3rd down. The third catch was on 1st down and he gained 9 yards....
Does this help you answer the "unanswerable" question yet?

You're not even making logical sense, now. You're so desperate to prove me wrong, that you can't even accurately quote yourself. I'll post it for you:

I've asked you how many catches should Dez have made in only 15 plays?

Notice you asked me how many catches he should have had in five balls thrown to him where Norman was covering him. Then, you don't even answer your own question. Instead, you offer the substance of his catches, not his actual catches.
Notice, also, you didn't say out of 5 targets he should have caught all 5 because that would argue against your point.
Interestingly, you chide me for not answering the question, but you didn't answer it either.
I guess if you didn't answer it either, it is unanswerable.

I'll ask again so you can look even weaker trying to avoid answering it. How many catches would Dez have needed to make on 15 offensive plays to be considered good? Since 3 catches on 15 plays equates to 11 catches on the game I am very curious as to how many he would need to have had a good game?

Here we go with the projections again. He did not have 11 catches, he had three catches. But based on your initial comparison with his production against Malcolm Jenkins (remember, he's the person you offered as a comparison), 3 for 32 and 0 TDs is a bad game compared to 6 for 114 and 3 TDs. So if Dez had a great game against Malcolm Jenkins following a war of words battle, then 3 for 32 and 0 TDs means he had a bad game against Josh Norman following a war of words and he let the game negatively effect him. Again, I'm using the argument you made and the comparison you offered.

In fact Dez's production was less when he went against anyone other than Norman in the last game. So this is just another example to prove my initial point that a guy like Norman doesn't get into Dez's head in a negative way...It motivates Dez more than it has a negative impact.

Where are you getting your facts or are you just making them up? I'd like to see them please.
Dez had a 1 catch (5 targets) for 8 yards against the Giants; 3 (6 targets) for 40 yards against the Bears; 1 (4 targets) for 18 yards against the Browns. The other games I didn't cite were games where Dez had a 100 yards receiving. So Dez's own stats don't support your argument. Unless you can make sense of what you just said.

You made the statement that Norman got in Dez's head and it had an negative impact on Dez's game. Yet given chance after chance to back it up you fail.
You have been exposed.

Again, I'm going to let you read my statement because it is very clear. I'll even bold for context:

But he gets in their heads. He irritates both Beckham and Dez. Dez is too obsessed with Norman - and that's what Norman wants.
Dez is upset that Norman got all in his money by saying he wasn't worth what he made. Norman went the one place you do go. Guys today don't like you talking about their money.
Dez has been stewing about his statement for a year, and it finally came to a head Thursday.

I'm glad Dez apologized, and I hope he develops more mental toughness; otherwise, other corners and teams are going to be all in his cranium, taking him out of his game and out of focus on what really matters.

This is what sent you into a Dez-defending tizzy. How DARE someone suggest Dez ignore Norman and not let him get into his head, something that is very obvious was done because Dez alludes to it after the game. How DARE someone suggest that by continuing in this fashion, it may affect his game.

Have fun repeating yourself and dancing around the facts. Yes facts.

Facts are like numbers. Any child can cite them and use them but that doesn't mean they understand them in context or complex equations.

That's what this entire discussion amounts too - aside from your sensitivity towards criticism of Dez. You offer statements, stats and facts then run away from them when your very own argument is turned against you. (See your citation of Dez's stats against Malcolm Jenkins)

And because your pride is wounded and fellow posters "talked" you into re-entering a conversation you thought boring, well, here we are. I think your pride was exposed more than whatever exposure you think you exposed of me. I don't even know what you're talking about.

Nevertheless, if engaging me in conversation and allowing me to make my points is what you mean by "exposed", then expose me, baby!

 

[superonyx]

You're not even making logical sense, now. You're so desperate to prove me wrong, that you can't even accurately quote yourself. I'll post it for you:



Notice you asked me how many catches he should have had in five balls thrown to him where Norman was covering him. Then, you don't even answer your own question. Instead, you offer the substance of his catches, not his actual catches.
Notice, also, you didn't say out of 5 targets he should have caught all 5 because that would argue against your point.
Interestingly, you chide me for not answering the question, but you didn't answer it either.
I guess if you didn't answer it either, it is unanswerable.




Here we go with the projections again. He did not have 11 catches, he had three catches. But based on your initial comparison with his production against Malcolm Jenkins (remember, he's the person you offered as a comparison), 3 for 32 and 0 TDs is a bad game compared to 6 for 114 and 3 TDs. So if Dez had a great game against Malcolm Jenkins following a war of words battle, then 3 for 32 and 0 TDs means he had a bad game against Josh Norman following a war of words and he let the game negatively effect him. Again, I'm using the argument you made and the comparison you offered.



Where are you getting your facts or are you just making them up? I'd like to see them please.
Dez had a 1 catch (5 targets) for 8 yards against the Giants; 3 (6 targets) for 40 yards against the Bears; 1 (4 targets) for 18 yards against the Browns. The other games I didn't cite were games where Dez had a 100 yards receiving. So Dez's own stats don't support your argument. Unless you can make sense of what you just said.



Again, I'm going to let you read my statement because it is very clear. I'll even bold for context:



This is what sent you into a Dez-defending tizzy. How DARE someone suggest Dez ignore Norman and not let him get into his head, something that is very obvious was done because Dez alludes to it after the game. How DARE someone suggest that by continuing in this fashion, it may affect his game.



Facts are like numbers. Any child can cite them and use them but that doesn't mean they understand them in context or complex equations.

That's what this entire discussion amounts too - aside from your sensitivity towards criticism of Dez. You offer statements, stats and facts then run away from them when your very own argument is turned against you. (See your citation of Dez's stats against Malcolm Jenkins)

And because your pride is wounded and fellow posters "talked" you into re-entering a conversation you thought boring, well, here we are. I think your pride was exposed more than whatever exposure you think you exposed of me. I don't even know what you're talking about.

Nevertheless, if engaging me in conversation and allowing me to make my points is what you mean by "exposed", then expose me, baby!

Your post is so full on garbage that I really don't believe you are even serious at this point.
Why tell me you cant answer a question because you results of his catches matter and then act confused when I give you the results you claim you need?
Its pretty simple really. You don't want to answer the question and this is just another attempt to divert.

Then you start posting nonsense about Dez's catches against the Bears and Giants ect? What does that have to do with anything we have been debating?
You are posting his bad stat games so I am assuming that you must believe DB's have been getting his head against these teams and its affecting his game.... Seriously.....what are you talking about? Is this what you do here?

My point has been consistent and clearly laid out.
Here it is again for you....
Try to pay attention.

Are you ready yet?

Almost there...

There is no evidence that Dez's production has been negatively affected by Norman or any DB getting in his head with talk. The only evidence anyone could find actually points to Dez getting motivated in a good way by a DB trash talking. The 3 catches for 32 yards in only 15 offensive plays against Norman points to Dez beating him at a rate that would result in 11 catches and over 100 yards for the game if Norman covered Dez the entire game. And the other time Dez has played against someone that we saw was trash talking was the eagles Malcolm Jenkings and Dez light them up for 3 TD's in that game. Show me how this is inaccurate and show me where a DB was effective in trash talking Dez into bad production.


Now go ahead and divert like you have been doing post after post.

 

[tyke1doe]

Your post is so full on garbage that I really don't believe you are even serious at this point.
Why tell me you cant answer a question because you results of his catches matter and then act confused when I give you the results you claim you need?
Its pretty simple really. You don't want to answer the question and this is just another attempt to divert.

You didn't/couldn't even answer your own question. And you expect me to answer it.

Then you start posting nonsense about Dez's catches against the Bears and Giants ect? What does that have to do with anything we have been debating?

Uh, you offered another tangential argument about Dez performing better against Norman than he did against other teams. I fact checked you and asked you to explain your comment and now you're again running from your statement. If you'd stop raising non-topical points, I'd stop giving you non-topical answers.

You are posting his bad stat games so I am assuming that you must believe DB's have been getting his head against these teams and its affecting his game.... Seriously.....what are you talking about? Is this what you do here?

Translation: you want to introduce non-topical points but don't want to be checked on them. Sorry I'm thorough that way.

There is no evidence that Dez's production has been negatively affected by Norman or any DB getting in his head with talk.

Again, this is untrue. We have incidents even last year where Dez is arguing with the officials in the Panthers game while Luke Kenkuley (sic) is racing away for a touchdown.
And it's pretty obvious that Norman got in his brain last year because Dez not only had a poor performance but he was arguing with the refs while a play was still ongoing.

The only evidence anyone could find actually points to Dez getting motivated in a good way by a DB trash talking. The 3 catches for 32 yards in only 15 offensive plays against Norman points to Dez beating him at a rate that would result in 11 catches and over 100 yards for the game if Norman covered Dez the entire game.

You do know a hypothetical is not evidence don't you? Your argument is entirely based on a projection.
But I'm sure you don't understand how illogical you sound so carry on. It's a part of your narrative.
Furthermore, the silliness of your position is revealed through mere common sense. If Zeke Elliott had 3 rushes for 14 yards but each rush resulted in a first down, few, if any, would say he had a good game. His rushes will have contributed to an overall win, but it would be hardly a good game for Zeke. Yet, 3 for 32 is somehow a good game? But even Dez didn't believe this. And you know how we know this? Because after the game, Dez doesn't talk about the three catches he had on Norman. Rather, he talks about the "other" times where he didn't get the ball but exposed Norman. And I think we're still waiting for his expose'.

And the other time Dez has played against someone that we saw was trash talking was the eagles Malcolm Jenkings and Dez light them up for 3 TD's in that game. Show me how this is inaccurate and show me where a DB was effective in trash talking Dez into bad production.

Hhmm. 6-114-3 TDs vs. 3-32-0 TDs. Yep those sound like the same good game to me.

Now go ahead and divert like you have been doing post after post.

You mean like the answers I give that you summarily dismiss?
You mean like the comparisons you make then feign ignorance when I answer?
You mean THAT diversion?

 

[superonyx]

You didn't/couldn't even answer your own question. And you expect me to answer it.


Uh, you offered another tangential argument about Dez performing better against Norman than he did against other teams. I fact checked you and asked you to explain your comment and now you're again running from your statement. If you'd stop raising non-topical points, I'd stop giving you non-topical answers.


Translation: you want to introduce non-topical points but don't want to be checked on them. Sorry I'm thorough that way.



Again, this is untrue. We have incidents even last year where Dez is arguing with the officials in the Panthers game while Luke Kenukley (sic) is raising away for a touchdown.
And it's pretty obvious that Norman got in his brain last year because Dez not only had a poor performance but he was arguing with the refs while a play was still ongoing.



You do know a hypothetical is not evidence don't you? You argument is entirely based on a projection.
But I'm sure you don't understand how illogical you sound so carry on. It's a part of your narrative.
Furthermore, the silliness of your position is revealed through mere common sense. If Zeke Elliott had 3 rushes for 14 yards but each rush resulted in a first down, few if any would say he had a good game. His contribution will have contributed to an overall win, but it would be hardly a good game for Zeke. Yet, 3 for 32 is somehow a good game. But even Dez didn't believe that even if his supporters do. And you know how we know this? Because after the game, Dez doesn't talk about the three catches he had on Norman. Rather, he talks about the "other" times where he didn't get the ball bit exposed Norman. And I think we're still waiting for his expose'.



Hhmm. 6-114-3 TDs vs. 3-32-1 0 TDs. Yep those sound like the same good game to me.



You mean like the answers I give that you summarily dismiss?
You mean like the comparisons you make then feign ignorance when I answer?
You mean THAT diversion?

You are good at taking so many words to say absolutely nothing.
You point to a play where Dez argued with the ref because he felt he was interfered with as proof that another CB has been able to get in his head and negatively affect his play on the field? Huh? That's now a defender trash talking Dez and getting in his head?
Is this the best you can come up with? You have repeated your nonsense again and again and this is your example you came up with?
Weak...I'm actually feeling embarrassed for you. Seriously. I am. This thread was in good fun and Ive rather enjoyed myself and some of your attempts.
But this one was awkward at best.

And Yes 3 catches for 32 yards with 2 of these catches giving us first downs in the red zone out of only 15 offensive plays Norman guarded him is actually very good.

 

[tyke1doe]

You are good at taking so many words to say absolutely nothing.
You point to a play where Dez argued with the ref because he felt he was interfered with as proof that another CB has been able to get in his head and negatively affect his play on the field? Huh? That's now a defender trash talking Dez and getting in his head?

You're a dedicated Dez sycophant aren't you?
Nothing short of Dez declaring, "Norman got in my head" is going to convince you. You'd deem a 1 catch 10 yard day a "good" game for Dez because you don't want to believe that anything can get in his head. Somehow, you think by admitting this, it makes Dez a bad receiver. I don't.
Fortunately, we can measure and evaluate behavior in an effort to render conclusions that aren't as easy obtained by an outright confession. So I will build my case from the available information.
First, the defender guarding Dez was NORMAN during last year's Thanksgiving Day game vs. the Panthers.
Second, Dez had 2 catches for 26 yards in the game, 1 for 6 while he was being guarded by Norman. Before the game, Norman was talking about how Dez disrespected him. And Norman was all up in Bryant's grill that game.
So when Bryant believes he's interfered with, his frustration comes out. It's not just the interference. (Not every receiver takes the opportunity to complain about an interception while the opponent is racing towards your end zone. Most smart receivers wait until after the play.) However, this particular interference so bothered Dez he had to discuss it during the play. And Dez's frustration was likely because Norman was shutting him down and Norman badmouthed him. Norman frustrated him so much while Luke Kuechly is racing back to the Cowboys' end zone with a pick that Dez doesn't even think to run him down. No, Dez is arguing with the ref while the play is in progress.
Let's fast forward to this year. Dez and Norman are yapping continuously in the Thanksgiving Day. Dez catches 3 for 36 on Norman (which you think constitutes a good game. LOL!). Then after the game, instead of basking in the glory of a 3 for 36 game (which you say is a good game, though it's funny Dez doesn't think so because he makes no mention of it), Dez's attention is solely focused on Norman - even though his team won.
This doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes mind to figure out. Maybe you don't want to read the tea leaves, but they're telling a story of frustration and Norman being all in Dez's cranium.

Is this the best you can come up with? You have repeated your nonsense again and again and this is your example you came up with?

To the illiterate and ignorant, Homer's (not Simpson ) Iliad sounds like nonsense. So when you speak of nonsense with regard to my posts, I take it as a compliment. But what I've said makes perfectly good sense - for those who have ears to hear.

Weak...I'm actually feeling embarrassed for you. Seriously. I am. This thread was in good fun and Ive rather enjoyed myself and some of your attempts.
But this one was awkward at best.

And, please stop. You don't feel embarrassed for me. Your pride is wounded. And you let your "friends" talk you into arguing with me because you want to have the last word. But because I have more words than you and because I can express myself well, you're stuck. You can't leave because your pride won't let you. Yet, there's no additional points you can make.

As for the thread being awkward, well, maybe you should take your friend's advice next time. They were right. I don't relent unless I'm ready.

And Yes 3 catches for 32 yards with 2 of these catches giving us first downs in the red zone out of only 15 offensive plays Norman guarded him is actually very good.

Oh, so Dez's game has moved from good to very good. I'm going to have to remember this the next time Odell Beckham Jr. or Desean Jackson has a 3 catch 32 yard no touchdown day. Why, those will be "very good" days according to Superonyxian logic.

 

[superonyx]

You're a dedicated Dez sycophant aren't you?
Nothing short of Dez declaring, "Norman got in my head" is going to convince you. You'd deem a 1 catch 10 yard day a "good" game for Dez because you don't want to believe that anything can get in his head. Somehow, you think by admitting this, it makes Dez a bad receiver. I don't.
Fortunately, we can measure and evaluate behavior in an effort to render conclusions that aren't as easy obtained by an outright confession. So I will build my case from the available information.
First, the defender guarding Dez was NORMAN during last year's Thanksgiving Day game vs. the Panthers.
Second, Dez had 2 catches for 26 yards in the game, 1 for 6 while he was being guarded by Norman. Before the game, Norman was talking about how Dez disrespected him. And Norman was all up in Bryant's grill that game.
So when Bryant believes he's interfered with, his frustration comes out. It's not just the interference. (Not every receiver takes the opportunity to complain about an interception while the opponent is racing towards your end zone. Most smart receivers wait until after the play.) However, this particular interference so bothered Dez he had to discuss it during the play. And Dez's frustration was likely because Norman was shutting him down and Norman badmouthed him. Norman frustrated him so much while Luke Kuechly is racing back to the Cowboys' end zone with a pick that Dez doesn't even think to run him down. No, Dez is arguing with the ref while the play is in progress.
Let's fast forward to this year. Dez and Norman are yapping continuously in the Thanksgiving Day. Dez catches 3 for 36 on Norman (which you think constitutes a good game. LOL!). Then after the game, instead of basking in the glory of a 3 for 36 game (which you say is a good game, though it's funny Dez doesn't think so because he makes no mention of it), Dez's attention is solely focused on Norman - even though his team won.
This doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes mind to figure out. Maybe you don't want to read the tea leaves, but they're telling a story of frustration and Norman being all in Dez's cranium.



To the illiterate and ignorant, Homer's (not Simpson ) Iliad sounds like nonsense. So when you speak of nonsense with regard to my posts, I take it as a compliment. But what I've said makes perfectly good sense - for those who have ears to hear.



And, please stop. You don't feel embarrassed for me. Your pride is wounded. And you let your "friends" talk you into arguing with me because you want to have the last word. But because I have more words than you and because I can express myself well, you're stuck. You can't leave because your pride won't let you. Yet, there's no additional points you can make.

As for the thread being awkward, well, maybe you should take your friend's advice next time. They were right. I don't relent unless I'm ready.



Oh, so Dez's game has moved from good to very good. I'm going to have to remember this the next time Odell Beckham Jr. or Desean Jackson has a 3 catch 32 yard no touchdown day. Why, those will be "very good" days according to Superonyxian logic.

When you can't win by debating what I said you feel the need to change what I said to give yourself something to argue. Pretty sad debate strategy. I guess this tactic has worked for you in the past. Fortunately I have plenty of time and will continue this back and forth.

Again what does the Giants or Bears game have to do with Dez's production when you think someone got in his head with trash talk? (Another question you will dodge I'm sure).

I didn't realize the game on thanksgiving only lasted 15 plays? Why are you so obsessed with 15 plays?
When you attempt to ignore the fact that Norman only covered Dez for 15 plays and Dez caught 3 passes for 2 red zone first downs that led to TD's in these 15 plays then you already lost.
At no point have I said anything untrue. You continue to lie to try to pick up the slack for your weak argument and weak debating skills.

 

[tyke1doe]

When you can't win by debating what I said you feel the need to change what I said to give yourself something to argue. Pretty sad debate strategy. I guess this tactic has worked for you in the past. Fortunately I have plenty of time and will continue this back and forth.

Where did I change what you said? You speak in vague terms. Please explain?

Again what does the Giants or Bears game have to do with Dez's production when you think someone got in his head with trash talk? (Another question you will dodge I'm sure).

Sigh.

In fact Dez's production was less when he went against anyone other than Norman in the last game.

Translation: When Dez went up against anyone other than Norman, that defender was more productive against Dez.
Bashaud Breeland was the other corner. When Dez went against Norman where the ball was thrown, he was 3 for 32 and 0 TDs. Dez finished the game with 5 catches for 72 yards. So that means Breeland had to be the other corner covering him (a safety wouldn't have single coverage on Dez). If this is the case, then Breeland gave up two passes for 40 yards. (I don't know who the other corner who would be matched up on Dez, and neither did you provide any information.)
Since your statement didn't make sense with respect to the Skins game, I interpreted your statement to apply to all other corners who have covered Dez this year. That's where I came up with the Giants and Bears game.

I'm trying to make sense of the statements you make. Forgive me for being analytical that way.

But if you want to expand upon what you mean by Dez production being less so I won't have to decipher it myself, I'm all ears.

I didn't realize the game on thanksgiving only lasted 15 plays? Why are you so obsessed with 15 plays?

Huh? This is your classic straw man. I never said anything about 15 plays. You did.
Earth to superonyx. Come in, superonyx.
You seem obsessed with 15 plays, not I. So I'm going to ignore this point because it hasn't been my focus.

When you attempt to ignore the fact that Norman only covered Dez for 15 plays and Dez caught 3 passes for 2 red zone first downs that led to TD's in these 15 plays then you already lost.

You're grasping for straws now. With respect to this conversation, I'm only interested in the passing plays. I'm not interested in running plays where Norman was assigned coverage to Dez. That's your baby.
Second, so what if Dez's first downs led to TDs? The argument isn't whether the team did well, but whether Dez did well.
Again, if Zeke has 14 rushes for 50 yards, but in three of those rushes he makes first downs, would anyone other than yourself (who is trying to win an argument) consider Zeke having a good game? Of course not. Why? Because the general standard for a running back is measured in rushing for over 100 yards.
Now, Zeke rushing 14 times for 50 yards may help the team, and his contribution may be noteworthy. But that doesn't mean he would classify himself as having a good game. Only you would think that, which is why you believe 3 for 32 is a good game for Dez, numbers Dez didn't even mention in his retaliation against Norman.

At no point have I said anything untrue.

Who said you said anything untrue? This issue isn't about truth or untruth, but whether evidence exists to suggest Dez had a good game and whether he had a bad game or even an average game and whether Norman got in his head. And piecing together all the information, I say Norman got in his head.

You continue to lie to try to pick up the slack for your weak argument and weak debating skills.

First, where have I lied? Please show me.
Second, if my argument and debating skills are so weak, why are you still engaged in this debate?
I suspect it's not that my argument and debate skills are weak, but it's as I stated: Your pride is wounded, and you can't let go. So you are obligated to continue.

See, in almost every post, I have talked about numbers; I have built my case on why I think Norman got into Dez's head.
Even in this one, I explained to you why I raised the Bears and Giants analysis.
All you do is talk about how my debate skills are weak. But better men than you have complimented me on my debate skills and the articulation of my point - even when they disagree with me. I just think you're frustrated and lashing out.

Now, if you have any more analysis or information to add to this discussion, please do. I'm more than willing to answer, and at length - provided it's on topic.