Dez: Washington needs to get their money back

[superonyx]

Where did I change what you said? You speak in vague terms. Please explain?



Sigh.



Translation: When Dez went up against anyone other than Norman, that defender was more productive against Dez.
Bashaud Breeland was the other corner. When Dez went against Norman where the ball was thrown, he was 3 for 32 and 0 TDs. Dez finished the game with 5 catches for 72 yards. So that means Breeland had to be the other corner covering him (a safety wouldn't have single coverage on Dez). If this is the case, then Breeland gave up two passes for 40 yards. (I don't know who the other corner who would be matched up on Dez, and neither did you provide any information.)
Since your statement didn't make sense with respect to the Skins game, I interpreted your statement to apply to all other corners who have covered Dez this year. That's where I came up with the Giants and Bears game.

I'm trying to make sense of the statements you make. Forgive me for being analytical that way.

But if you want to expand upon what you mean by Dez production being less so I won't have to decipher it myself, I'm all ears.



Huh? This is your classic straw man. I never said anything about 15 plays. You did.
Earth to superonyx. Come in, superonyx.
You seem obsessed with 15 plays, not I. So I'm going to ignore this point because it hasn't been my focus.



You're grasping for straws now. With respect to this conversation, I'm only interested in the passing plays. I'm not interested in running plays where Norman was assigned coverage to Dez. That's your baby.
Second, so what if Dez's first downs led to TDs? The argument isn't whether the team did well, but whether Dez did well.
Again, if Zeke has 14 rushes for 50 yards, but in three of those rushes he makes first downs, would anyone other than yourself (who is trying to win an argument) consider Zeke having a good game? Of course not. Why? Because the general standard for a running back is measured in rushing for over 100 yards.
Now, Zeke rushing 14 times for 50 yards may help the team, and his contribution may be noteworthy. But that doesn't mean he would classify himself as having a good game. Only you would think that, which is why you believe 3 for 32 is a good game for Dez, numbers Dez didn't even mention in his retaliation against Norman.



Who said you said anything untrue? This issue isn't about truth or untruth, but whether evidence exists to suggest Dez had a good game and whether he had a bad game or even an average game and whether Norman got in his head. And piecing together all the information, I say Norman got in his head.



First, where have I lied? Please show me.
Second, if my argument and debating skills are so weak, why are you still engaged in this debate?
I suspect it's not that my argument and debate skills are weak, but it's as I stated: Your pride is wounded, and you can't let go. So you are obligated to continue.

See, in almost every post, I have talked about numbers; I have built my case on why I think Norman got into Dez's head.
Even in this one, I explained to you why I raised the Bears and Giants analysis.
All you do is talk about how my debate skills are weak. But better men than you have complimented me on my debate skills and the articulation of my point - even when they disagree with me. I just think you're frustrated and lashing out.

Now, if you have any more analysis or information to add to this discussion, please do. I'm more than willing to answer, and at length - provided it's on topic.

I have never said 3 catches over the course of a game is great production. You have attempted to frame my response in this way. I said Dez had 3 catches in only 15 offensive plays vs Norman. With running plays included in the 15 plays. Im sure we all agree that Dak doesn't throw the ball into tight coverage and we all saw the play where Dez had Norman totally lost and running the wrong direction. So in reality Dez was targeted 5 times and should have been targeted 6 times in only 15 plays vs Norman. In other words Norman did an awful job covering Dez. Dez did what he said he did to Norman.

You never said anything about 15 plays because you don't want to accept that Norman only covered Dez for 15 plays. But its sad that you have mentioned Dez only having 3 catches and you pretend these 3 catches came against Norman over an entire game.

Zeke is a RB. RB's and WR have nothing to do with each other in regards to this debate so I am not even going to discus this failed attempt to redirect.

Still don't see why you are talking about the Giants and Bears game in respect to this conversation. Your point was either hidden in a sea of words or just such a reach that it doesn't make sense. Either way..

Again you have presented zero evidence that Dez was negatively affected by trash talking getting into his head.
Where is the evidence of this?
Maybe you can scrap away all the crap you bring up that isn't relevant and stick to the topic being discussed.

 

[tyke1doe]

I have never said 3 catches over the course of a game is great production.

I don't think I said you said it was a great game. You did say and imply he had a good game. I'll quote what you said:

... So yes 3 catches for 32 yards in 15 offensive plays (many which were running plays) is actually very impressive.

... Since 3 catches on 15 plays equates to 11 catches on the game I am very curious as to how many he would need to have had a good game?

... The only evidence anyone could find actually points to Dez getting motivated in a good way by a DB trash talking. The 3 catches for 32 yards in only 15 offensive plays against Norman points to Dez beating him at a rate that would result in 11 catches and over 100 yards for the game if Norman covered Dez the entire game.

... And Yes 3 catches for 32 yards with 2 of these catches giving us first downs in the red zone out of only 15 offensive plays Norman guarded him is actually very good.

We need a whistling emoticon.

You have attempted to frame my response in this way. I said Dez had 3 catches in only 15 offensive plays vs Norman. With running plays included in the 15 plays.

What difference do the running plays make if the ball isn't coming to Dez? Dez essentially becomes a blocker. Now, unless Dez pancakes Norman and Zeke or Morris runs in the area where Norman should have tackled either, the running plays are irrelevant.

Im sure we all agree that Dak doesn't throw the ball into tight coverage and we all saw the play where Dez had Norman totally lost and running the wrong direction. So in reality Dez was targeted 5 times and should have been targeted 6 times in only 15 plays vs Norman. In other words Norman did an awful job covering Dez. Dez did what he said he did to Norman.

On one play, Norman did an awful job covering Dez. Second, if Dak doesn't throw the ball into tight coverage, doesn't that suggest that Norman was covering Dez closely and was NOT doing an awful job?

You never said anything about 15 plays because you don't want to accept that Norman only covered Dez for 15 plays. But its sad that you have mentioned Dez only having 3 catches and you pretend these 3 catches came against Norman over an entire game.

I've addressed this earlier. The run plays are irrelevant to the discussion. That's YOUR POINT not mine.

Zeke is a RB. RB's and WR have nothing to do with each other in regards to this debate so I am not even going to discus this failed attempt to redirect.

But your underlying concept does have something to do with this debate, namely this. It seems to be your position that the amount of catches don't matter. As long as they are meaningful catches (a first down here, 10 yards here), then the receiver (in this case, Dez) did a "good" job, did an "impressive" job. Your fundamental argument has application to other positions too. So if Tebow stinks up the joint passing completing 4 of 20 but one of those was a game-winning touchdown, he was impressive.
See the connection?

Still don't see why you are talking about the Giants and Bears game in respect to this conversation. Your point was either hidden in a sea of words or just such a reach that it doesn't make sense. Either way..

You say this, yet you don't explain what you mean/meant by Dez having less production against other defenders. If my point doesn't make sense, it's because your comment doesn't make sense. And, as I stated, I was trying to interpret what I thought you meant.
You offered the analysis; you should offer a clarification if you don't want to be misunderstood.

Again you have presented zero evidence that Dez was negatively affected by trash talking getting into his head.
Where is the evidence of this?

I gave you a lengthy explanation. But you don't like my conclusion so you dismiss it. So be it.

Maybe you can scrap away all the crap you bring up that isn't relevant and stick to the topic being discussed.

Says the man who ..

1. Introduced the 15 other plays that weren't pass plays.
2. Ventured several pages into the discussion before he realized we were talking exclusively about this past Thanksgiving Day game between the Skins and the Cowboys.
3. Evoked a reference to a game two years ago to compare to the game for which this thread is about
2. Mentioned how Dez was less productive against other defenders but doesn't explain what he means.

Heh!

 

[ragman]

When are the two of you going to stop this endless bickering? SMH.

 

[Satchel89]

And now Norman is saying that Dez never said "Unload the clip" now. I give Dez credit. He said he shouldn't of said what he did in the interview. He's thinking about the team. Norman just continues to make himself look like an idiot. He's pretty good at that.