Did we fix the Defense?

[btcutter]

Ken Bishop and that kid from Stanford are much better than where they were drafted. Wait and see.

They may make the team partly because this team is so lacking in quality players in those positions. They are after all 7th rounders for a reason. I would love for both of them to contribute. But more likely 1 out of 2 is already pretty good. Other is practice squad.

 

[starfrombirth]

They may make the team partly because this team is so lacking in quality players in those positions. They are after all 7th rounders for a reason. I would love for both of them to contribute. But more likely 1 out of 2 is already pretty good. Other is practice squad.

People are fond of using this "for a reason" logic which is flawed reasoning. Every year every team has some players that not only turn out to be better than thought but are actually "good". Gardner dropped because he was injured for half of last season and not invited to the combine nor played in any bowls which is the starting point for a scouts analysis. Bishop played in a very small school. Both are strong reason for not being rated higher not for thinking they can't be good.

Further you do realize, don't you, that many of the great players in our leagues history were drafted after the 7 round which would be considered undrafted today.

 

[jday]

Now that the dust has settled (except for late UDFAs), did we fix our defense? We seemed to have filled the one critical position of need and added the depth we needed – plus we will have another 3 Million to spend on a FA when we get the salary cap relief from cutting Miles Austin.

We took 3 DL – one with a first round grade at the only pressing position of need. Bishop and Gardner came in the 7th but Bishop is a great scheme fit and no one would have blinked had we taken him in the 5th. Gardner likely would have gone much higher except for his injury. With those three our DL rotation looks like this IMO:

LDE – Selvie / Lawrence / Mincey

3 Tech - Melton / Bass

1 Tech - McClain / Hayden / Ken Bishop

RDE - Crawford / Spencer / Ben Gardner


At LB we took two guys that can be solid special teamers as rookies and add depth behind the starters. Holloman and Wilber will likely be greatly improved next year with the experience they got this year. Carter is a wildcard but could easily improve over last year (and should).

At DB we added a developmental CB and S, but the main improvement should come from Wilcox, Heath and Hamilton improving from the normal jump second year players make, with all three already having more experience on the field than rookies should get.

We added the pass rusher we needed, a future All Pro OG, some good rotation types and still have the 3 million in June. I would call this draft a success.

I think a more honest assessment is we filled holes...fixing the defense may take another free agency and draft, if not more. But we will see.

 

[Kaiser]

They may make the team partly because this team is so lacking in quality players in those positions. They are after all 7th rounders for a reason. I would love for both of them to contribute. But more likely 1 out of 2 is already pretty good. Other is practice squad.

Yes and No. Bishop was a 7th rounder because this was a very deep draft and half the league plays a 3-4 that isn't a scheme fit. There have been years where Bishop would have been taken in the 4th and no one would have batted an eye.

Gardner was hurt his senior year and was snubbed unexpectedly by the Combine. Take out the injury and he would have gone much higher as well.

 

[Kaiser]

I think a more honest assessment is we filled holes...fixing the defense may take another free agency and draft, if not more. But we will see.

Perfect, that's exactly what I was shooting for. I shouldn't have used the word "fixed" but I meant did the team use its available resources to plug has many holes as possible.

But some posters thought I was asking if we had traded Herschel Walker a second time, been excused from the Salary Cap and returned to 1992.

 

[iceberg]

I think a more honest assessment is we filled holes...fixing the defense may take another free agency and draft, if not more. But we will see.

yep. we won't know of lawrence will pan out or not. i think the only "given" out of this draft is martin and i did a dozen fist pumps when we called his name. now i'll admit 11 of those were cause it wasn't manziel, but i digress.

gonna take a lot to fix this D. we brought in enough bodies in UDFA's to see who's gonna *want* it. there will be strong competition and if nothing else, if we get uber-slammed with injuries again, we'll have a pretty full rolodex handy to refer to.

 

[vicjagger]

If Zach Martin improves our Time of Possession, then we will have improved the defense. They are at their best when they are on the sidelines.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

nah..
hopefully we got some good tools in the draft though.....

 

[KJJ]

Now that the dust has settled (except for late UDFAs), did we fix our defense?

The Cowboys have had one of the worst defenses statistically in NFL history the past 2 seasons setting several futility records and you're asking if this draft in which the team didn't even use their first pick on a defensive player is going to fix the defense? The defense was a wreck at the end of the 2013 season and was left in complete shambles with the departure of Ware and Hatcher who provided the Cowboys pass rush last season. It's going to take more than one draft to replace the production those players provided. Just trying to replace what Ware brought to the defense may take years to fill. Even injured offenses had to account for Ware. It took several misses with high picks over a period of years to hit on Ware. His departure left a hole the size of a moon crater that I don't see being filled with our #2 pick.

Even as great as Ware was not even he could make the defense anything better than average due to the lack of talent around him and how disorganized the defense has been due to multiple coordinator/scheme changes. Rob Ryan had to simplify things during the 2012 season because players didn't even know when to be on the field which resulted in repeated delay penalties and busted coverages. The Cowboys will be entering the 2014 season with their 3rd DC under Garrett which is why we see so much confusion on the field. The defense gave up an embarrassing number of TD's, first downs and yards last season primarily due to players being out of position.

A lot of the problems we're seeing are due to players being confused and schemes that don't appear to fit them. Garrett mentioned numerous times as did Jerry of how many big plays against the defense were a result of players being out of position. The draft is a crapshoot and you don't find out in May with players standing in street clothes holding a jersey if anything has been fixed you find that out on the field starting in Sept. It's going to take time to develop these players so expect another rough defensive year in 2014. Hopefully a hole or two will be filled defensively with this draft at some point we'll just have to wait and see.

Carr and Claiborne may add more holes to the Cowboys defense at the end of the 2014 season because neither may be back in 2015. Carr is due a lot of money at the end of next season and unless he turns into Richard Sherman in 2014 he's gone. If Claiborne who's been a bust his first 2 seasons continues to fight the injury bug and doesn't play to the level the Cowboys expected of him when they made him with the 6th overall pick he won't be seeing a second contract with the team. Sean Lee is the best player on the defense but he's a china doll who's never around the final month of the season due to injuries. Lee will be 28 in July and will be lucky if his body hasn't broken down by 32. I see a Cowboys defense that has a LONG way to go because this unit has been bad for several years even when relatively healthy. It wasn't just terrible last year it was terrible the year before and the year before that. The last time the defense looked like a solid unit was the final month of the 09 season.

 

[jnday]

This was not what I would call a defensive draft at all. It will take several drafts like this fir it to show up on the field. I think most of us expected more, but it is what it is.

 

[silver]

What about Anthony Spencer? He could be our designated pass rusher on passing downs.

 

[jnday]

What about Anthony Spencer? He could be our designated pass rusher on passing downs.

Spencer is still limping. Considering the type of surgery that he had, I would be surprised if he ever came back and played at a decent level. The odds are stacked against him. There is no way that he should be depended on.

 

[davey999]

I honestly don't see how our D is appreciably better.

 

[Kaiser]

Just trying to replace what Ware brought to the defense may take years to fill. Even injured offenses had to account for Ware. It took several misses with high picks over a period of years to hit on Ware. His departure left a hole the size of a moon crater that I don't see being filled with our #2 pick.

No one had to account for Ware last year. He was in 13 games with 40 tackles last season. He had 6 sacks, which tied him for 51st in the NFL with eight others who had six sacks. Replacing the 2009 version of Ware would be very hard. Replacing the 2013 version of Ware won't be hard at all.

 

[Bowdown27]

Fixed ? Hell no. We can't be worse. I like what we did but we are not a good defense. We still need better play overall. Hopefully marinelli makes this work

 

[visionary]

No. I dont think they will be 32nd again but still bottom third. Dont see appreciable upgrades anywhere. Maybe rookie Lawrence bests slipping Ware. Still nothing but question marks just about everywhere. Best hope is take advantage of team strength O Line and control the clock. That isnt Linehan's M O though.

Yep
When Seattle and SF send "waves of DL " Hayden and selvie are not among them
Better hope Melton holds up and is as good as advertised or it will be back to 2013
That DL is still a hope and a prayer IMO

 

[Bizwah]

I'm not sure what you mean by fixed. If you mean good....then I'll say "no". If you mean better...then I'll say a resounding "yes".

Look at the team that was on the field most of last year
Ware: injured and ineffective most of the year
Hatcher: stud
Hayden: role player forced into starting role
Selvie: pleasant surprise
Carter: struggled to grasp scheme
Lee: never healthy
Durant: struggled
Oscan: arguably best defensive player
Carr: struggled
Claiborne: struggled, injured, but flashed occasionally
Church: ok...not great..in first starting role
Heath: killed us. How many time did he miss a tackle, or give up a jump ball?

Now, how are we better? Well, I think Marinelli will allow our CBs to play to their strengths. Carr and Claiborne are man/press CBs. Church should be more comfortable in this scheme, and JJ Wilcox has impressed the staff already.

At LB we should at least have more depth. Holloman really came on at the end. Carter, hopefully will figure out the scheme. If we could only have Lee healthy, then I think this group could shine.

DL was ugly. No depth...the guys brought in were gritty, and I loved the effort. Just not a good situation. This year we have no Ware. But he was a shell of his former self. Hatcher finally realized his massive potential. We replaced Ware with a rookie. Now, he won't be the Ware of seasons past, but there's a good chance he can be the Ware of last season. Melton has shown the ability to excel in this system. Selvie will have an entire offseason with the team, after having an impressive year. Crawford flashed potential in his first year (just watch the Pitt game). If he's recovered, he will provide some great depth...if not more. McClain is an upgrade over Hayden. Mincey, Bishop,and Gardener all have more talent than some of the guys we were shuffling in and out last season.

We will be better, but we are not fixed. One more offseason should get us there.

 

[KJJ]

No one had to account for Ware last year. He was in 13 games with 40 tackles last season. He had 6 sacks, which tied him for 51st in the NFL with eight others who had six sacks. Replacing the 2009 version of Ware would be very hard. Replacing the 2013 version of Ware won't be hard at all.

So because Ware only played in 13 games with 40 tackles and 6 sacks teams didn't have to account for him? He had 4 sacks in the first 3 games last season before being injured which had him on pace for 20 sacks. I doubt any of the Cowboys opponents disregarded him because he wasn't having a typical Demarcus Ware year. When he's on the field injured or not he has to be accounted for or I doubt Denver would have snapped him up as soon as he was released with a $30 million contract over 3 years with $20 million guaranteed. Before Ware arrived in Dallas 6 sacks would practically lead the team. The Cowboys invested a #1 on Ebenezer Ekuban in 1999 and in 4 years he only produced 10 sacks.

In 3 years with the Cowboys Kavika Pittmen a #2 pick only came up with 10 sacks. Shante Carver a #1 pick in 94 only produced 11.5 sacks in 4 years with the Cowboys despite having a solid defense around him during most of those years. As much attention as Ware draws it's a wonder he could even get 6 sacks missing 3 games and being injured most of the season. Replacing any version of Demarcus Ware is going to be very hard he's had a HOF career. We'll see if his replacement in 2014 can come up with 6 sacks and all the QB pressures he provided.

 

[Kaiser]

So because Ware only played in 13 games with 40 tackles and 6 sacks teams didn't have to account for him? He had 4 sacks in the first 3 games last season before being injured which had him on pace for 20 sacks.

And he had all of 2 sacks over the remaining 13 games of the season. Yeah, I'm sure opposing coaches lost sleep over that.

 

[Kaiser]

We will be better, but we are not fixed. One more offseason should get us there.

Totally agree. I'm also hopefully the 3MM of cap room we gain in June turns into another late addition of a Brian Waters equivalent for the defense.