Dissing DWare

Chuck 54

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,285
Reaction score
12,300
Fact: Demarcus Ware is not Lawrence Taylor. He is not a dominant pass rusher who strikes fear into both the QB and the OT. He doesn't knock the QB down repeatedly during the game or get consistent pressure that forces the offense to change its practices. DWare does not beat double teams.

However, DWare is among the best LBs in the NFL, and he is clearly and absolutely the best defensive player on our team...in my opinion far better as a LB than TNew is as a corner.

Everyone, including myself, has fallen prey to wanting more from DWare. I would like for him to be Charles Haley, pressuring the QB into bad throws, into leaving the pocket, beating double-teams to still make the QB rush into another player's waiting arms, knocking the QB down several times per game. True, pure pass rushers bring consistent pressure, even when they don't get sacks.

The problem is that DWare is not the LT, passrushing OLB, that we thought we were drafting. But that can be a good thing, too. We drafted a pass-rushing, smallish DE and planned to turn him into an OLB in the 3-4, a guy what would be the next LT and turn our defense into a terror for QBs.

The problem is that DWare became more than what we drafted...even Jerry Jones could not have imagined that DWare would become the all-around LB, perhaps the best in the NFL, that he has become. Ware doesn't just line up and bring it play after play after play, but he does bring a relentless effort to the position play after play after play. And Demarcus Ware does it all at OLB.

Maybe we'd like to see him pass rush with no regard for the run play after play...maybe we'd like to see him develop 2-3 counter moves as a pass rusher, put on a few more pounds of muscle, and simply overpower OT's as often as he speeds by them on the outside. And maybe we'd be willing to accept the plays he doesn't make as RBs break outside and inside his pass rush just to see him apply more pressure throughout the game, but that doesn't seem to be DWare's game, nor does it seem to be the team's plan for him.

DWare is a great LB, and he comes up with a pass rush at opportune times, and often he gets his sack when we really need it. He doesn't embarrass OT's, run through blocking backs, or bruise and batter QB's all game long. Nope, he's not Lawrence Taylor, and he's not Charles Haley when it comes to pass rushing consistently, even in the face of double teams.

But Demarcus Ware is a great LB, the best defensive player on our team, and while our pass rush seems to disappear on more pass plays than it shows up, I don't blame DWare.....I think our team continues to expect more from the other 3-4 guys they turn loose on the QB...and sadly, those guys almost never produce.
 

Sarge

Red, White and Brew...
Staff member
Messages
33,626
Reaction score
31,229
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Nice post Wayno - spot on. There aren't many Charles Haley's in this world and for Ware to even be compared to him is a compliment.

The dissing of D. Ware is unfounded.

Nice post.
 

Rack

Federal Agent
Messages
23,906
Reaction score
3,106
Sarge;2323410 said:
Nice post Wayno - spot on. There aren't many Charles Haley's in this world and for Ware to even be compared to him is a compliment.

The dissing of D. Ware is unfounded.

Nice post.

I don't see anyone "Dissing" Ware, but he obviously hasn't been playing up to his potential this year.

He even said so himself.
 

burmafrd

Well-Known Member
Messages
43,820
Reaction score
3,379
LT was not the god some now make him out to be. Things get exagerated over time. Not saying Demarcus is as good- but LT was NOT that much better.

Dware is getting at least one sack a game and other pressures as well as Tackles and other stats. If he keeps up the present pace he has a real good shot at DPOY. What more can we really expect?
 

Sarge

Red, White and Brew...
Staff member
Messages
33,626
Reaction score
31,229
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Rack;2323418 said:
I don't see anyone "Dissing" Ware, but he obviously hasn't been playing up to his potential this year.

He even said so himself.

I see people showing disappointment with Ware. Call it what you want. You want to henpeck with the word "dissing" - have at it. What's your point?

Bottom line is, Wayne wasn't dreaming things up with his post.
 

CATCH17

1st Round Pick
Messages
67,450
Reaction score
85,625
There is not a lot of players playing hocked up on coc either.
 

burmafrd

Well-Known Member
Messages
43,820
Reaction score
3,379
From a statistical point of view Dware is ahead of any season he has had up to this point.
 

Mr Cowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,491
Reaction score
32,476
DWare would be much more effective if the other pass rushers could beat one on one blocking at any point in a game. Because they can't, most teams use 2 or 3 blockers on Ware, knowing that the other can't hurt them.

Furhtermore, with the CBs playing 10 yards off the ball, teams are using 3 step drops and getting the ball out quickly giving Ware no time to get past the 2 or 3 blockers.
 

CATCH17

1st Round Pick
Messages
67,450
Reaction score
85,625
burmafrd;2323422 said:
LT was not the god some now make him out to be. Things get exagerated over time. Not saying Demarcus is as good- but LT was NOT that much better.

Dware is getting at least one sack a game and other pressures as well as Tackles and other stats. If he keeps up the present pace he has a real good shot at DPOY. What more can we really expect?

Much like the Barry Sanders legacy.

Barry was great.

But at the time a lot more people thought Emmitt was better than Barry.

It took Barry quiting on a high note and Emmitt leaving the game as a Cardinal for that to change.
 

Brandon

Benched
Messages
928
Reaction score
0
burmafrd;2323437 said:
From a statistical point of view Dware is ahead of any season he has had up to this point.

Yeah, but when have his sacks come? Usually during the last play of the game for the opposing team on 4th and longs. When the QB isn't protected, Ware has been invisible for 3 and 3/4 quarters every game this season, and it better change.
 

superpunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,330
Reaction score
75
wayne motley;2323393 said:
Fact: Demarcus Ware is not Lawrence Taylor. He is not a dominant pass rusher who strikes fear into both the QB and the OT. He doesn't knock the QB down repeatedly during the game or get consistent pressure that forces the offense to change its practices. DWare does not beat double teams.
I disagree with your "facts", but not the overall premise of the thread.

I mean, Ellis pretty much owes his lone double digit sack season to Ware forcing QBs to his side. I haven't seen it as much the last two or so games but early this season he was getting double teamed or chipped almost every play - I had never seen anything like it with a Dallas player. I think you're fooling yourself if you think he doesn't force an offense to change it's practices. He's a stout run defender in addition to a dominant pass rusher, but IMO he could be even better. I think the start to this season has been his weakest performance yet - but even so he's still making plays.

He and the rest of our defense just need to finish better.
 

Clove

Shrinkage
Messages
64,838
Reaction score
27,404
wayne motley;2323393 said:
Fact: Demarcus Ware is not Lawrence Taylor. He is not a dominant pass rusher who strikes fear into both the QB and the OT. He doesn't knock the QB down repeatedly during the game or get consistent pressure that forces the offense to change its practices. DWare does not beat double teams.

However, DWare is among the best LBs in the NFL, and he is clearly and absolutely the best defensive player on our team...in my opinion far better as a LB than TNew is as a corner.

Everyone, including myself, has fallen prey to wanting more from DWare. I would like for him to be Charles Haley, pressuring the QB into bad throws, into leaving the pocket, beating double-teams to still make the QB rush into another player's waiting arms, knocking the QB down several times per game. True, pure pass rushers bring consistent pressure, even when they don't get sacks.

The problem is that DWare is not the LT, passrushing OLB, that we thought we were drafting. But that can be a good thing, too. We drafted a pass-rushing, smallish DE and planned to turn him into an OLB in the 3-4, a guy what would be the next LT and turn our defense into a terror for QBs.

The problem is that DWare became more than what we drafted...even Jerry Jones could not have imagined that DWare would become the all-around LB, perhaps the best in the NFL, that he has become. Ware doesn't just line up and bring it play after play after play, but he does bring a relentless effort to the position play after play after play. And Demarcus Ware does it all at OLB.

Maybe we'd like to see him pass rush with no regard for the run play after play...maybe we'd like to see him develop 2-3 counter moves as a pass rusher, put on a few more pounds of muscle, and simply overpower OT's as often as he speeds by them on the outside. And maybe we'd be willing to accept the plays he doesn't make as RBs break outside and inside his pass rush just to see him apply more pressure throughout the game, but that doesn't seem to be DWare's game, nor does it seem to be the team's plan for him.

DWare is a great LB, and he comes up with a pass rush at opportune times, and often he gets his sack when we really need it. He doesn't embarrass OT's, run through blocking backs, or bruise and batter QB's all game long. Nope, he's not Lawrence Taylor, and he's not Charles Haley when it comes to pass rushing consistently, even in the face of double teams.

But Demarcus Ware is a great LB, the best defensive player on our team, and while our pass rush seems to disappear on more pass plays than it shows up, I don't blame DWare.....I think our team continues to expect more from the other 3-4 guys they turn loose on the QB...and sadly, those guys almost never produce.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking this, because smahing on a popular player around here is executable by law.
 

AdamJT13

Salary Cap Analyst
Messages
16,583
Reaction score
4,529
It's amazing how much players get better after they retire.

Just wait 15 years, and fans will be lamenting how we don't have a dominant pass rusher who pressures the quarterback every play like DeMarcus Ware did.
 

Rack

Federal Agent
Messages
23,906
Reaction score
3,106
burmafrd;2323422 said:
LT was not the god some now make him out to be. Things get exagerated over time. Not saying Demarcus is as good- but LT was NOT that much better.

I'm sorry, but you're flat out WRONG here.

LT revolutionized the game, much the way Bob Hayes did. LT was a freakin' man-beast and if anything over time people have FORGOTTEN how good he really was.


I remember when the cowboys were about to play the giants, my only thought was "I hope LT doesn't kill us". I wasn't worried about the other guys, only LT.


You don't have to lessen his legend - a legend he DESERVES - just to pump up Ware.


Ware isn't as good as LT nor will he ever be as good as LT. That doesn't mean he isn't or can't be great, or even hall of fame worthy some day.
 

zrinkill

Cowboy Fan
Messages
48,388
Reaction score
30,833
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
1st year LT 9 sacks (unofficial), 1 int
1st year Haley 12 sacks, 1 int
1st year Ware 8 sacks, 0 int

2nd year LT 7.5 sacks, 1 int
2nd year Haley 6.5 Sks, 0 int
2nd year Ware 11.5 Sks, 1 int

3rd year LT 9 sacks, 2 int
3rd year Haley 11.5 Sks, 0 int
3rd year Ware 14 Sks, 0 int

4th year LT 11.5 sacks, 1 int
4th year Haley 10.5 Sks, 0 int
4th year Ware(in 5 games) 5 Sks (on pace for 16), 0 int

I am fine with how Ware is developing ..... I think people get caught up in the legends of past players.
 

JohnnyHopkins

This is a house of learned doctors
Messages
11,302
Reaction score
3,610
Rack;2323473 said:
I'm sorry, but you're flat out WRONG here.

LT revolutionized the game, much the way Bob Hayes did. LT was a freakin' man-beast and if anything over time people have FORGOTTEN how good he really was.


I remember when the cowboys were about to play the giants, my only thought was "I hope LT doesn't kill us". I wasn't worried about the other guys, only LT.


You don't have to lessen his legend - a legend he DESERVES - just to pump up Ware.


Ware isn't as good as LT nor will he ever be as good as LT. That doesn't mean he isn't or can't be great, or even hall of fame worthy some day.


Preach on brother! That guy was one of the true greats of this game and deserves his respect.
 

Dallas

Old bulletproof tiger
Messages
11,515
Reaction score
3
AdamJT13;2323472 said:
It's amazing how much players get better after they retire.

Just wait 15 years, and fans will be lamenting how we don't have a dominant pass rusher who pressures the quarterback every play like DeMarcus Ware did.


Exactly Adam. Clear as always.

I guess people just need something to post about. Might as well henpeck Ware. :p:


Teams account for Ware on every play. I dont care what these guys are saying. He can change the game if they don't get help on him.

I think it is moreso this year. Demarcus has to be able to get around those guys. That explosion off the line gets him there more often than not.

It helps he can outrun most QB's also.
 

rysko

New Member
Messages
491
Reaction score
0
imagine if ware wrapped up every sack, that'd be nuts, he'd have like 10 sacks this year... would be sweet
 

theogt

Surrealist
Messages
45,846
Reaction score
5,912
zrinkill;2323500 said:
1st year LT 9 sacks (unofficial), 1 int
1st year Haley 12 sacks, 1 int
1st year Ware 8 sacks, 0 int

2nd year LT 7.5 sacks, 1 int
2nd year Haley 6.5 Sks, 0 int
2nd year Ware 11.5 Sks, 1 int

3rd year LT 9 sacks, 2 int
3rd year Haley 11.5 Sks, 0 int
3rd year Ware 14 Sks, 0 int

4th year LT 11.5 sacks, 1 int
4th year Haley 10.5 Sks, 0 int
4th year Ware(in 5 games) 5 Sks (on pace for 16), 0 int

I am fine with how Ware is developing ..... I think people get caught up in the legends of past players.
Sooo......through 4 years, that'd be:

LT - 37 sacks
Haley - 40.5
Ware - 49.5 sacks (projected)

:laugh2:

Hell, if Ware was injured tomorrow, he'd still have more than LT in his first 4 years (38.5).
 
Top