DMN: Cowlishaw: Something good, maybe great, might finally be on the horizon for Cowboys

Doomsday101

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You draft them when you're really confident you've got a special one. But those come along far too seldom.

What's worse is that the QBs coming out today are trained entirely wrong in college. They have to be rebuilt in the pros, and it takes time. Then, you're five years in, and you have to overpay somebody like Tannehill or Cousins when you still don't really know what you have.

Notice that the teams that draft quarterbacks tend to draft them over and over and over.

If Will McClay and his staff REALLY like Goff or Lynch, then take him absolutely. I love the idea of having the next franchise QB in house. But if they are really unsure, let somebody else take that risk.

You say they are all trained wrong so then again you don't draft a QB? I agree it may take some time and right now we have Tony Romo that a Goff or Lynch would get that time. I notice many poor teams do draft QB over and over, most go to teams who have little protection for the QB, lack of running game and few WR. Don't see that in Dallas. I think if Dallas acts now they can bring a young QB in groom him for a couple of years and put him behind an OL that is quality.
 

tyke1doe

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Houston took Clowny he was supposed to be great he is not and now wished they would have taken a top QB. All position can fail not just QB but considering how hard it is to find a top QB I think taking a chance on a top prospect at the position is worth the risk

Anyone with eyes to see could tell Clowney wasn't going to live up to expectations. I was saying even before the draft he was going to be a bust. The guy doesn't have a great work effort and, basically, cashed in big off of that one hit against the Michigan running back.

Steve Spurrier even said he wasn't a full-out guy.

And I can remember when Nick Saban was recruiting him, and he had disparaging things to say about Saban. He chose South Carolina, IMO, because Saban was going to work him hard, and he wanted no part of it. He wanted to go somewhere where they were going to fawn over his talent.

I know this was an aside, but I just wanted to point out that Clowney had his detractors, especially after basically saying he shut it down because he didn't want to risk injury.

Maybe the Texans should have drafted Blake Bortles, who went to the Jaguars with the third pick.

Bortles' success likely bodes well for Lynch because UCF isn't exactly considered one of the powerhouse schools, and neither is Memphis.
 

Doomsday101

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Anyone with eyes to see could tell Clowney wasn't going to live up to expectations. I was saying even before the draft he was going to be a bust. The guy doesn't have a great work effort and, basically, cashed in big off of that one hit against the Michigan running back.

Steve Spurrier even said he wasn't a full-out guy.

And I can remember when Nick Saban was recruiting him, and he had disparaging things to say about Saban. He chose South Carolina, IMO, because Saban was going to work him hard, and he wanted no part of it. He wanted to go somewhere where they were going to fawn over his talent.

I know this was an aside, but I just wanted to point out that Clowney had his detractors, especially after basically saying he shut it down because he didn't want to risk injury.

Maybe the Texans should have drafted Blake Bortles, who went to the Jaguars with the third pick.

Bortles' success likely bodes well for Lynch because UCF isn't exactly considered one of the powerhouse schools, and neither is Memphis.

But many felt Clowny would be a very good player, my point is any position can fail there is a long list of players who were 1st rd picks outside of QB who failed. I would not avoid drafting a player based on his position. I think both Goff and Lynch have a good shot at developing into quality players, I think a perfect situation would be Dallas for either one. They would not be asked day 1 to start they would sit and develop and when they do get the chance I think they would do so behind a very good OL. Could they end up failing? sure that could happen but in my view I think they are worth the risk
 

tyke1doe

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But many felt Clowny would be a very good player, my point is any position can fail there is a long list of players who were 1st rd picks outside of QB who failed. I would not avoid drafting a player based on his position. I think both Goff and Lynch have a good shot at developing into quality players, I think a perfect situation would be Dallas for either one. They would not be asked day 1 to start they would sit and develop and when they do get the chance I think they would do so behind a very good OL. Could they end up failing? sure that could happen but in my view I think they are worth the risk

I don't disagree. But I'm weary of guys who aren't hard workers and who have reputations of dogging it.
I don't think Clowney was worth the No. 1 pick. I said it then, and I said it now.

Yes, Goff and Lynch may not pan out as top prospects. But I haven't heard anyone say they are lazy.
 

Doomsday101

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I don't disagree. But I'm weary of guys who aren't hard workers and who have reputations of dogging it.
I don't think Clowney was worth the No. 1 pick. I said it then, and I said it now.

Yes, Goff and Lynch may not pan out as top prospects. But I haven't heard anyone say they are lazy.

I felt Houston should have gone QB over Clowny given the fact their QB's were all former rejects elsewhere.
 

DandyDon1722

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I dint know Ramsey was hurt. I watched the game. He played the whole game. Did he get hurt on the bus home?

AH - so sorry. I thought you meant Jaylon Smith form Notre Dame. Ramsey is fine.

As my father used to tell me - you look but you don't see!
 

tyke1doe

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I felt Houston should have gone QB over Clowny given the fact their QB's were all former rejects elsewhere.

They'll probably take one in the first three rounds. I wouldn't be surprised if they grabbed Wentz, assuming he doesn't climb in the draft.
 

Rogerthat12

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That's what I'm talking about. Let's get our QB. I'm going to think positive until that cornerback is announced with the 4th pick. Then I go full Alexander.

At least you still got your QB too:

083113-CFB-AGGIES-JOHNNY-MANZIEL-DC-PI2_20130831161114867_640_480.jpg
 

erod

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So then you never draft a QB? sorry I think when we get into a position as we are in with an older QB on the tail end with a top pick then you don't screw around. Yes later rd picks sometime pan out but most top QB come out of the 1st rd of drafts not all but again most do. Dallas has a chance to grab a top QB prospect I hope they do not screw up and pass on it. Just my view.

Houston took Clowny he was supposed to be great he is not and now wished they would have taken a top QB. All position can fail not just QB but considering how hard it is to find a top QB I think taking a chance on a top prospect at the position is worth the risk

Yes, Houston took Clowney. The next two QBs taken were Bortles and Manziel. I'm not seeing anything special about any of them.
 

Doomsday101

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Yes, Houston took Clowney. The next two QBs taken were Bortles and Manziel. I'm not seeing anything special about any of them.

I think Bortles is coming along pretty well throwing 35 TD passes this past season on a very bad Jags team. Clearly Houston has more talent than Jags
 

erod

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I think Bortles is coming along pretty well throwing 35 TD passes this past season on a very bad Jags team. Clearly Houston has more talent than Jags

You left out the 58 percent completion percentage and 18 interceptions.

He's OK, but hardly worth a top five pick.
 

Doomsday101

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You left out the 58 percent completion percentage and 18 interceptions.

He's OK, but hardly worth a top five pick.

Not leaving it out ? He is playing on a poor team and being asked to carry them. In Houston they are not asking the QB to carry their team which would have allowed him better opportunity to develop.
 

plasticman

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Nice analysis. They were like the Patriots of today in terms of always keeping an eye on impact players

I often call the Patriots this generation's Cowboys of the 70's.

The Patriots use a specific strategy that encompasses a diffeent dynamic associated with a cap. In fact, they are geniuses at it, in much the same way as Schram and Brandt had their system for the draft.

Here is the Patriots system in a nutshell:

Keep "superstars" to a minimum, only those guys that you absolutely need to stay successful. For them, that was really only Brady. Anybody else was expendable and you saw how so many Pro Bowlers ended up somewhere else. The Patriots refused to overpay and loyalty was never considered. The reserved loyalty for their fans and winning for them.

Their contracts were proportionaly equal to a player's perceived contributions to the team. The cap was like a pie and each player only recieved the size slice they were entitled to consistant with thier importance to the team. The Patriots rarely competed in a free agent acquisition with other teams. If any player didn't accept their contract then they could go elsewhere.

So how could they continue to restock their team with so many departures? There were the compensatory picks, of course but that didn't yield the talent level required of most starters.

The answer is that the Patriots loved 2nd and 3rd round picks.

They felt that these rounds yielded sufficient talent without the salary, entitlement and egos that accompany many 1st rounders. Plus, this lessened the liklihood of 1st rounders feeling they should get bigger contracts after the first one expired.

The most admirable part of it was their philosophy before the league voted to change the cap to include a rookie salary cap.

Before this, the Patriots surmised that a top tier 1st round rookie's productivity simply couldn't match the value paid through his contract. They considered the time to adjust to the NFL and become a legitimate contributor. No sooner has a player reached that stage when their first contract is up. Essentially, what has the Patriots or any team paid for? Well, only the opportunbity to train him well enough to earn big bucks from another team or seriouisly impact their own cap.

So they would consistantly trade out of the first round. They would get another 2nd or 3rd rounder combined with the other team's 1st or 2nd rounder for next year. Then they would simply continue this practice the following year.

In the combined three drafts of 2009-2011 the Patriots had 9 2nd round picks and 5 3rd round picks, courtesy of their system.

Additionally, whatever 1st round picks they kept, they used on their secondary and their lines. The skill players typically came in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. They got more bodies, less elite players demanding bigger contracts. Don't forget that even elite players can get hurt, how could we forget? Their system gave then far more depth.

Both the talent and cap money was distributed around a larger number of players. If there was a serious injury or if there was a draft bust, no big deal. Plenty more where that came from.

This is why fans and media are deceived into thinking that the Patritos are weak as a result of their injuries. Yes they are, but many of their backups have starting capability.

Jason Garrett had a system that he explained back in 2011 but it has not been followed consistantly. In fact, it has been comtaminated by Jerry Jones to the degree that it is now a nonfactor.
 

mahoneybill

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I often call the Patriots this generation's Cowboys of the 70's.

The Patriots use a specific strategy that encompasses a diffeent dynamic associated with a cap. In fact, they are geniuses at it, in much the same way as Schram and Brandt had their system for the draft.

Here is the Patriots system in a nutshell:

Keep "superstars" to a minimum, only those guys that you absolutely need to stay successful. For them, that was really only Brady. Anybody else was expendable and you saw how so many Pro Bowlers ended up somewhere else. The Patriots refused to overpay and loyalty was never considered. The reserved loyalty for their fans and winning for them.

Their contracts were proportionaly equal to a player's perceived contributions to the team. The cap was like a pie and each player only recieved the size slice they were entitled to consistant with thier importance to the team. The Patriots rarely competed in a free agent acquisition with other teams. If any player didn't accept their contract then they could go elsewhere.

So how could they continue to restock their team with so many departures? There were the compensatory picks, of course but that didn't yield the talent level required of most starters.

The answer is that the Patriots loved 2nd and 3rd round picks.

They felt that these rounds yielded sufficient talent without the salary, entitlement and egos that accompany many 1st rounders. Plus, this lessened the liklihood of 1st rounders feeling they should get bigger contracts after the first one expired.

The most admirable part of it was their philosophy before the league voted to change the cap to include a rookie salary cap.

Before this, the Patriots surmised that a top tier 1st round rookie's productivity simply couldn't match the value paid through his contract. They considered the time to adjust to the NFL and become a legitimate contributor. No sooner has a player reached that stage when their first contract is up. Essentially, what has the Patriots or any team paid for? Well, only the opportunbity to train him well enough to earn big bucks from another team or seriouisly impact their own cap.

So they would consistantly trade out of the first round. They would get another 2nd or 3rd rounder combined with the other team's 1st or 2nd rounder for next year. Then they would simply continue this practice the following year.

In the combined three drafts of 2009-2011 the Patriots had 9 2nd round picks and 5 3rd round picks, courtesy of their system.

Additionally, whatever 1st round picks they kept, they used on their secondary and their lines. The skill players typically came in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. They got more bodies, less elite players demanding bigger contracts. Don't forget that even elite players can get hurt, how could we forget? Their system gave then far more depth.

Both the talent and cap money was distributed around a larger number of players. If there was a serious injury or if there was a draft bust, no big deal. Plenty more where that came from.

This is why fans and media are deceived into thinking that the Patritos are weak as a result of their injuries. Yes they are, but many of their backups have starting capability.

Jason Garrett had a system that he explained back in 2011 but it has not been followed consistantly. In fact, it has been comtaminated by Jerry Jones to the degree that it is now a nonfactor.

Great summary. Must reading for those who wish to stay competitive for more than 1 to 2 seasons. Helps to have Brady, but he is only one part of their success
 
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