Do you find it funny that Carthon is being considered for Dolphins head coach

[mr.jameswoods]

I thought the titles were assistant head coach/running game coordinator for Carthon and QB coach/passing game coordinator for Payton while in Dallas.

Thanks for that racial commercial break now back to discussing Maurice and Parcells

I thought Carthon was initially hired as the OC and had that title for his first year in Dallas despite Payton being there. I thought the titles were changed the following season? I could be wrong though. Still, I was always amazed at the nepotism Parcells displays. I think Parcells is a fine coach and evaluator but overrated nonetheless. At best, he might make the Dolphins respectable but he is not going to make them a champion especially by hiring the "Friends of Bill" Seriously, what's next, is Bledsoe and Vinny going to be his QB's? It should be fun to read a Dolphins forum next year and see their fans rationalize starting Bledsoe and Vinny the way our fans did during their state of delirium

 

[InmanRoshi]

a) He probably is just doing it to satisfy the Rooney Rule, and to get one of his more beloved former players and coaches a little "buzz" is a nice conciliation package.

b) I laugh at this notion that "nepotism" is a "Parcells thing". How do you think Larry Lacewell and Barry Switzer got NFL jobs? (How do you think Lacewell kept an NFL job for 8 years?) They were "Jerry guys". When Jimmy took over the Cowboys job, guess who he brought with him? A good chunk of the Miami Hurricanes defensive staff. When Belichick took the Patriots job, guess where Pioli, Crennel and Weis came from? He worked with them at the Jets. Wisenhunt takes the job at Arizona, guess why he brought Russ Grimm with him? He worked with him at the Steelers. This is just a fact of life, and it's certainly not a "Parcells Thing". Coaches want to bring in other coaches and players that they've worked with who know their philosophies and schemes.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

b) I laugh at this notion that "nepotism" is a "Parcells thing". How do you think Larry Lacewell and Barry Switzer got NFL jobs? (How do you think Lacewell kept an NFL job for 8 years?) They were "Jerry guys". When Jimmy took over the Cowboys job, guess who he brought with him? A good chunk of the Miami Hurricanes defensive staff. When Belichick took the Patriots job, guess where Pioli, Crennel and Weis came from? He worked with them at the Jets. Wisenhunt takes the job at Arizona, guess why he brought Russ Grimm with him? He worked with him at the Steelers. This is just a fact of life, and it's certainly not a "Parcells Thing". Coaches want to bring in other coaches that they've worked with and know their philosophies and schemes.

You don't understand the definition of nepotism. It's not simply hiring someone you know personally or is related to you. The definition of nepotism means showing favortism toward individuals simply based on relationship as opposed to qualification or some other objective ability. Maurcine Carthon was not qualified to become the offensive coordinator of the Cowboys when he was first hired. He was only hired for that role because Parcells was his friend. And that was proven when Parcells immediately tried to hire Sean Payton later on which was Parcells way of admitting Carthon wasn't qualified for the position but was given it in name only.

With regards to Jimmy Johnson and Bellichek, yes, they knew and worked with those people but they were not placed in positions that they were not qualified to handle. It would have been one thing if Carthon was hired as only the running backs coach but the fact that he was immediately promoted to OC upon being hired by the Cowboys or the fact that he is now being considered for head coach despite being a running backs coach with the Cardinals is pure nepotism plain and simple

 

[InmanRoshi]

You don't understand the definition of nepotism. It's not simply hiring someone you know personally or is related to you. The definition of nepotism means showing favortism toward individuals simply based on relationship as opposed to qualification or some other objective ability. Maurcine Carthon was not qualified to become the offensive coordinator of the Cowboys when he was first hired. He was only hired for that role because Parcells was his friend.

With regards to Jimmy Johnson and Bellichek, yes, they knew and worked with those people but they were not placed in positions that they were not qualified to handle. It would have been one thing if Carthon was hired as only the running backs coach but the fact that he was immediately promoted to OC upon being hired by the Cowboys or the fact that he is now being considered for head coach despite being a running backs coach with the Cardinals is pure nepotism plain and simple

Qualified is in the eye of the beholder. Are you claiming that when Jimmy Johnson took the Cowboys job, he looked high and low, took all applications and decided that the most qualified men for the jobs were a bunch of guys who had never coached in the NFL before? No, they were "qualified" to no one but him. He knew them, he thought they were smart guys and he thought they could handle it. That, and that alone, is what made them qualified for the job. Lots of guys had better resumes.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Qualified is in the eye of the beholder. Are you claiming that when Jimmy Johnson took the Cowboys job, he looked high and low, took all applications and decided that the most qualified men for the jobs were a bunch of guys who had never coached in the NFL before? No, they were "qualified" to no one but him. He knew them, he thought they were smart guys and he thought they could handle it. That, and that alone, is what made them qualified for the job. Lots of guys had better resumes.

Jimmy didn't hire his staff because he felt he owed them a favor because he knew them personally. He hired them because he felt they were the best people for the job at the time. With Carthon, Parcells was simply trying to help his career despite knowing he wasn't qualified to be the OC. And the proof is there when he tried to hire Sean Payton after he named Carthon OC.

The same applies to Bellichek and the Jets. Parcells hired Al Groh first. He wanted Bellichek and later hired him as the defensive backs coach. Everyone knew Bellichek was the real DC. Instead of Parcells moving Bellichek to DC, he kept Groh with the DC title out of a personal favor to him because it would help his career more than giving Bellichek another DC title since Bellichek had the established reputation. Bill was looking out for his friends as usual

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Jimmy didn't hire his staff because he felt he owed them a favor because he knew them personally. He hired them because he felt they were the best people for the job at the time. With Carthon, Parcells was simply trying to help his career despite knowing he wasn't qualified to be the OC. And the proof is there when he tried to hire Sean Payton after he named Carthon OC.

Regardless, all IR is trying to say is that Bill Parcells is not the only guy that employs Nepotism.

Nepotism exists at every level of society.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Regardless, all IR is trying to say is that Bill Parcells is not the only guy that employs Nepotism.

Nepotism exists at every level of society.

I think that's too easy and is letting Parcells off the hook. Again, it's not nepotism to hire someone you've worked closely with if you are hiring them because you SINCERELY believe they are the most qualified to handle the job.

Parcells has shown a propensity to hire people simply out of favortism despite showing otherwise he doesn't believe in their abilities aka hiring Sean Payton as closet OC after appointing Carthon as the formal OC. That proves that Parcells just hired him as OC out of personal favor as opposed to truly believing Carthon was qualified for the job. If Parcells felt Carthon was qualified to be OC, he wouldn't have desperately tried to lure Payton to the Cowboys at the time. Parcells is doing the same by interviewing him for the head coaching position. Do you think anyone else would have seriously considered Carthon head coaching material?

 

[InmanRoshi]

With Carthon, Parcells was simply trying to help his career despite knowing he wasn't qualified to be the OC. And the proof is there when he tried to hire Sean Payton after he named Carthon OC.

Sorry, still not seeing "nepotism" here.

I'm pretty confident he was qualified to be an offensive coordinator by people other than Parcells. I base this on the fact that Carthon was currently the offensive coordinator at Detroit in 2002 when Parcells hired him to the Cowboys. You do remember Carthon was the offensive coordinator at Detroit in 2002 under Mariucci, right? And there was kind of a touchy situation about Detroit releasing him for a lateral move?

Further, there was a split division of labor here. While Carthon was given the offensive coordinator title (kind of hard to get a guy to change companies for a lesser job, or for his current employer to let him go), Carthon was put in charge of coordinating the running game and Payton the passing game. This was a common division of responsibility and duties while Parcells was here (Haley and Sparano). I would be interested in hearing how a guy who had played professional football as a running back for a decade, coached RB's in the NFL for 7 years as a runningback coach and was an offensive coordinator at his current job is in no way objectively qualified to coordinate a running game.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Sorry, still not seeing "nepotism" here.

I'm pretty confident he was qualified to be an offensive coordinator by people other than Parcells. I base this on the fact that Carthon was currently the offensive coordinator at Detroit in 2002 when Parcells hired him to the Cowboys. You do remember Carthon was the offensive coordinator at Detroit in 2002 under Mariucci, right? And there was kind of a touchy situation about Detroit releasing him for a lateral move?

Further, there was a split division of labor here. While Carthon was given the offensive coordinator title (kind of hard to get a guy to change companies for a lesser job, or for his current employer to let him go), Carthon was put in charge of coordinating the running game and Payton the passing game. This was a common division of responsibility and duties while Parcells was here (Haley and Sparano). I would be interested in hearing how a guy who had played professional football as a running back for a decade, coached RB's in the NFL for 7 years as a runningback coach and was an offensive coordinator at his current job is in no way objectively qualified to coordinate a running game.

I'm pretty confident he wasn't qualified to be offensive coordinator by people other than Parcells at the time he was hired as the OC in Dallas. The Lions were 2-14 with him as OC and had the 4th worst rushing attack without a 1000 yard rusher (their leading rusher had 685 yards rushing). The Lions offense was also shut out in two games that season. The only reason the offense was somewhat respectable (ranked 16th) was because Marty Mornhinwheg(the head coach) called the passing game and was previously a good offensive coordinator prior to his head coaching position with Detroit. Parcells could have hired him as the assistant head coach and runningbacks coach and Carthon would have taken it in a heartbeat. Carthon just came off a 2-14 season and was responsible for the runninggame and that part of the offense was a complete failure. Why wouldn't he go to Dallas? Furthermore, it doesn't speak well of his ability as an OC considering the Browns had a league-low 232 points in 2005 and had only scored 88 points through six games in 2006 when he was the OC for the Browns after his stint in Dallas.

Payton was the OC here. There was no division of labor as there was between Haley and Sparano. Sparano actually called the running plays which Carthon didn't do. Payton called the plays. Carthon was the runningbacks coach and designed some of the running plays but he didn't call them. He might have put some packages together but he didn't share the same level responsibility that Sparano had. And if Carthon felt he had any real responsibility as an offensive coordinator in Dallas, why would he go to the Cleveland Browns as their OC in 2005? And this "division of labor" occurred after Payton was hired. Did you really expect Parcells to publicly demote his friend to runningbacks coach after he hired him as the OC? Parcells did the next best thing by making him assistant head coach and givng the title of "running game coordinator" so he could still be viable for jobs like the one he got for the Browns in 2005. Do you see anyone rushing to hire Carthon as OC aside from Parcells right now?

If I believed someone was capable of being the offensive coordinator, why would I feel the need to hire someone else to do the same job? If Parcells didn't trust going into the season with Carthon as his OC so why would he hire him to the position in the first place? The only answer that makes sense is reasons due to nepotism.

 

[5Stars]

My country tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died!
Land of the Pilgrim's pride!
From every mountain side,
Let freedom ring!

My native country, thee,
Land of the noble free,
Thy name I love.
I love thy rocks and rills,
Thy woods and templed hills;
My heart with rapture fills
Like that above.

Let music swell the breeze,
And ring from all the trees
Sweet freedom's song.
Let mortal tongues awake;
Let all that breathe partake;
Let rocks their silence break,
The sound prolong.

:bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

Our father's God to, Thee,
Author of liberty,
To Thee we sing.
Long may our land be bright
With freedom's holy light;
Protect us by Thy might,
Great God, our King!




Yes, the race is still alive!!

 

[InmanRoshi]

It's clear you had no idea Carthon was an offensive coordinator at Detroit until I brought it up, and now you can rant and rave all you want to try to save face but Carthon was well qualified for the job when he was hired by any objective measure. He was hardly a case of "nepotism" as you suggest. You tried to paint a picture that Parcells practically hired some guy off the street because he was his buddy. The fact is Carson was an NFL assitant coach for 7 years, was currently an offensive coordinator for another NFL team and was making a lateral move coming to Dallas. He was much more qualified than any of the assistants Jimmy brought to Dallas who had never coached in the NFL before.

Sorry, the smear campaign didn't work this time. Better luck in your Parcells hatred next time. Just save yourself the embarrassment and do your homework beforehand.

 

[khiladi]

=Better luck in your Parcells hatred next time, just save yourself the embrassment and do your homework beforehand.

I really don't see how you proved anything. He absolutely sucked as an OC with Detroit, meaning his performance surely wasn't a good indicator of why he was hired wherever Parcells hired him after the fact.

I really don't see how he was embarrassed.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

It's clear you had no idea Carthon was an offensive coordinator at Detroit until I brought it up, and now you can rant and rave all you want to try to save face but Carthon was well qualified for the job when he was hired by any objective measure. He was hardly a case of "nepotism" as you suggest. You tried to paint a picture that Parcells practically hired some guy off the street because he was his buddy. The fact is Carson was an NFL assitant coach for 7 years, was currently an offensive coordinator for another NFL team and was making a lateral move coming to Dallas. He was much more qualified than any of the assistants Jimmy brought to Dallas who had never coached in the NFL before.

Sorry, the smear campaign didn't work this time. Better luck in your Parcells hatred next time. Just save yourself the embarrassment and do your homework beforehand.

Excuse me but you didn't even know which coach he was the OC under. It wasn't Mariucci. It's also clear you didn't know or probably even hear of the term nepotism until I raised it. And I like how you ignored the points I raised because you couldn't contradict them so you changeed the issues. Again, your whole point was that coaches other than Parcells would have been interested in Carthon's services at the times but his performance as the OC in Detroit didn't support that. The last I checked posting statistics isn't exactly "ranting and raving" You obviously feel a need to defend Parcells instead of looking at this issue objectively.

Again, Jimmy didn't hire someone only to hire someone else to do the same job in the same season. Nice try but your Johnny Cochran like defense of Parcells isn't fooling anyone any longer

 

[mr.jameswoods]

I really don't see how you proved anything. He absolutely sucked as an OC with Detroit, meaning his performance surely wasn't a good indicator of why he was hired wherever Parcells hired him after the fact.

I really don't see how he was embarrassed.

Thank You

The unfortunate thing about this discussion is that he is arguing a different point and not understanding the point I'm making. The idea of nepotism focuses on one's intentions as opposed to simply hiring family or associates. I wouldn't have accused Parcells of nepotism if he hired Carthon as the OC and didn't hire Payton or anyone else to share the job. That would have told me that Parcells hired Carthon because he believed he could be a great OC and not because he is his friend.

But when he felt the need to hire Payton to do the same job, it makes you question why he hired Carthon in that role in the first place aside from doing him a personal favor and giving him a better title to help his career. That is nepotism

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Carthon may have been qualified, but he sucked. Just like he did later at Cleveland.

And just like Vincent Brown apparently did when Parcells fished him out of high school.

For every poster out to "smear" Parcells, there's a loyalist of his who thinks he can do no wrong. In this case, wveryone knows Parcells loves his familiar guys -- the term Parcells Guy was around way before he ever set foot in Valley Ranch. It's not the absolute worst thing in the world. So why deny it?

But to get back to the question of the thread, yes, it's hilarious he'd consider someone who was a miserable failure at two stops to be his head coach. Same with Todd Haley, who seemingly no one but Parcells can stand. At least Sparano is generally respected as a good assistant coach.

 

[InmanRoshi]

No, I'm aware of nepotism, I just found your exmple in this case more than a little confusing.

Bill Parcells practices neptotism, because he hires 'his guys' to positions that no other coach or organization would dream of ....except in this case 'his guy' just had the same identical position with another organization and coach that had no ties to Parcells.

it's one of those Parcells bashing paradoxes I haven't gotten my head around yet, like

The only reason Bill Parcells has had so much success in the NFL is because his assistant coaches have made him look good .... except that he completely handcuffs his assistant coaches, stiffles their idea, doesn't value their input and forces them to do things his way.

and

Bill Parcells is a mean, old, miserable s.o.b. and everyone who works under him is completely miserable ... except that everytime he takes a new job his fomer players, coaches and staff all seem to follow him to work under him again.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

No, I'm aware of nepotism, I just found your exmple in this case more than a little confusing.

Bill Parcells practices neptotism, because he hires 'his guys' to positions that no other coach or organization would dream of ....except in this case 'his guy' just had the same identical position with another organization and coach that had no ties to Parcells.

No, you clearly don't understand the definition of nepotism. You never did. And don't act like you did because your earlier examples clearly show you didn't know what it meant. You simply thought it meant hiring close friends or associates until I corrected you so don't further embarrass yourself. You keep belaboring the wrong point as if you are making a point. Your example is erroneous.

If Jimmy Johnson hires an unknown to a major position because he believes in his abilities, that is not nepotism, regardless if he knows him personally. If Jimmy Johson hired a personal friend or close associate to an offensive coordinator position for reasons to help his career and not because he believed in his ability to handle that position, that would be nepotism.

Parcells didn't hire Carthon as the OC because he believed he would succeed at that position. He hired him in that role to acquire him on the team as a runningbacks coach and gave him the OC title to boost his career. If Parcells trusted Carthon to be the OC, he would have never hired Payton. And Parcells hired a guy that had failed in the very same position with another team which would not entice any coach aside from his buddy Bill to hire him. You forgot to mention that fact. Again, had Parcells retained Carthon as the sole OC without hiring Payton, it would not have been nepotism because you could have argued that Bill trusted in Carthon's abilities regardless of his previous experience in Detroit. But the fact that rumors swirled around Carthon's hire about hiring Payton as OC with that eventually becoming a reality proves Parcells had no intention of hiring Carthon as the OC but rather simply wanted to bring him to Dallas. He just gave him the OC title to help his career.

Really, the Parcells defense is getting old. Give it up because it's clear you are arguing for the sake of argument and have no intention of ever conceding anything negative about your friend Bill.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Carthon may have been qualified, but he sucked. Just like he did later at Cleveland.

And just like Vincent Brown apparently did when Parcells fished him out of high school.

For every poster out to "smear" Parcells, there's a loyalist of his who thinks he can do no wrong. In this case, wveryone knows Parcells loves his familiar guys -- the term Parcells Guy was around way before he ever set foot in Valley Ranch. It's not the absolute worst thing in the world. So why deny it?

But to get back to the question of the thread, yes, it's hilarious he'd consider someone who was a miserable failure at two stops to be his head coach. Same with Todd Haley, who seemingly no one but Parcells can stand. At least Sparano is generally respected as a good assistant coach.

Exactly, I don't hate Parcells. I think he deserves a lot of credit for our success this year. I think he is one of the best coaches of all time and I think he deserves a lot of credit for our success since he built the infrastructure of this team. That being said, it's still funny how his penchant for nepotism still exists and how he is interviewing Carthon for a head coach position or an OC spot. LOL You have to admit it's still funny regardless of your opinion of him. :laugh2:

 

[Q_the_man]

I once remember Jimmy Johnson saying he didn't know one play, but he knew how to coach players and get the best out of them.. OC and DC are way different then HC OC and DC call the plays HC makes the decision to go for it, who starts, who makes team.....

Case in Point Norv Turner one of the best OC ever but not a great HC, Charlie Weiss good OC horrible Coach... Carthon can not be no worst then Saban, the coach that just left Miami, atlanta ex coach and a host of other coaches,,,,, shoot Matt millen is the 2nd highest paid GM......

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Thanks for that racial commercial break now back to discussing Maurice and Parcells

I thought Carthon was initially hired as the OC and had that title for his first year in Dallas despite Payton being there. I thought the titles were changed the following season? I could be wrong though. Still, I was always amazed at the nepotism Parcells displays. I think Parcells is a fine coach and evaluator but overrated nonetheless. At best, he might make the Dolphins respectable but he is not going to make them a champion especially by hiring the "Friends of Bill" Seriously, what's next, is Bledsoe and Vinny going to be his QB's? It should be fun to read a Dolphins forum next year and see their fans rationalize starting Bledsoe and Vinny the way our fans did during their state of delirium

One of two things going on with Parcells-Carthon.
Either man boobs has man love for Maurice, once called the pompadus of love,

OR

Maurice has photos that Parcells knows must never be shown.

How else to explain Man boobs penchant to employ or help Maurice?