Does Garrett Have Any Real Value as a Head Coach?

CowboyMcCoy

Business is a Boomin
Messages
12,749
Reaction score
235
I'm asking an honest question. He's not a defensive guy and he can really only coach one position in my opinion. With Parcells and Jimmy, those guys could get a job coaching any position in the NFL--even Wade was a better all-around coach. The only person I think who may be as worthless as a head coach is Dave Campo. I've opposed JG for the last two years. While it doesn't gain me any popularity amongst my co-fans, it does help pass the time when football is not on.

I'm curious, though, what value does he add as a head coach? I can see him as a legitimate quarterback coach or an offensive coordinator. But I think our team suffers because he's not very rounded when it comes to anything else.
 

Bleu Star

Bye Felicia!
Messages
33,925
Reaction score
19,920
CowboyMcCoy;5095023 said:
Does Garrett Have Any Real Value as a Head Coach?

Does Mike Tomlin have any real value as a head coach? Of course...
 

Aven8

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,116
Reaction score
45,946
The only thing he has proven is we can win 8 games a season.
 

Yakuza Rich

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,043
Reaction score
12,385
Wade wasn't a better all around coach. Knew little about offense or special teams and delegated that to the offensive and special teams coordinator.

When Wade was fired, Garrett actually delved into the defensive side of the ball and the special teams because they were so bad in 2010 there was no way to win. And the defense and special teams did get better.

To me, I don't quite understand the fervor over insisting a HC must call plays. It's nice if they can do it like Sean Payton because then if the coordinator leaves you don't have to do a new search for a coordinator with playcalling capabilities.

But, it's not that common to have the HC calling plays. Hasn't been common for over the past 30 years. Even Wade didn't call defensive plays early on in Dallas. That was given to Brian Stewart. Stewart couldn't get the job done and Wade took over.

To me, it's really about player development and winning games. Wade won games, but had serious issues with player development (i.e. Jenkins, Felix, Bennett, etc). And sure enough, the team went downhill. I think Garrett has done a good job with player development, but he can't get over 8-8. Hopefully that will change.






YR
 

Clove

Shrinkage
Messages
64,893
Reaction score
27,488
Bleu Star;5095042 said:
Does Mike Tomlin have any real value as a head coach? Of course...
I don't know where you're going with this statement, but for the love of good and evil, and this goes for everyone on and off the board. Never compare Championship winners to nobodies.
 

erod

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,705
Reaction score
60,327
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Are we really making a point that a FORMER NFL QUARTERBACK from Princeton doesn't know NFL defense?

So exactly where does that put our opinion s on judging his football knowledge in the first place? Lol
 

Lonestar94

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,527
Reaction score
725
Clove;5095083 said:
I don't know where you're going with this statement, but for the love of good and evil, and this goes for everyone on and off the board. Never compare Championship winners to nobodies.

But..but.. Garrett has two superbowl rings.. Certainly he's a championship winner.
 

Eskimo

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,821
Reaction score
496
17yearsandcounting;5095066 said:
Why is offensive player development on Wade?

Because he was the HC which means that he oversaw and supervised Garrett who was his subordinate.

The practices were run the way Wade wanted them to run and not the way Garrett wanted them to run. So if Garrett can't institute his ideas and systems to develop players then he can't be held fully accountable for the results.

Even Wade's players seemed to start playing better again under Garrett: Spencer and Jenkins, in particular, were floundering in 2010 and those were Wade's first rounders.

Wade is a very good DC and has done a great job in Houston helping to turn that crew around. He is just ill-equipped to be a HC and has failed in 3 different locations now. He is a nice guy and has a good mind for defense but he just doesn't have the organizational and leadership skills to be the HC of a successful NFL team.
 

erod

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,705
Reaction score
60,327
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Lonestar94;5095088 said:
But..but.. Garrett has two superbowl rings.. Certainly he's a championship winner.

There isn't a coach in NFL history that could have won with this roster the past three seasons Garrett was here.

Rebuilding takes time.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,871
Reaction score
15,969
The short answer is yes.

Garrett has organizational skills and a professionalism and work ethic football people like.

Is he the hot coaching candidate he was when he was turning down ATL and BMore? No.

But do I think he'd be out of work begging for scraps for long? No.
There are 32 franchises and maybe 10 proven winning coaches. After that it is retreads or guys trying like Garrett to build a real resume. I don't doubt he could land a gig in Buffalo or Detroit or St. Louis sometime.

Your head coach has zero reason to coach a position. You hire guys to do that. The head coach needs to be a manager and organizer. BP coached zero positions here. Jimmy did the same. Too old to swear Landry avoided the DBs but he certainly did so later on. Weird knock there you seem to have. Especially since Garrett can coach the most important position on the field.

I think Garrett has proven he can manage a roster. We've had less issues than most teams while clearing out malcontents and headaches. We've drafted well and guys are playing hard even hurt. Game organization seems a challenge for Garrett but that's largely because he'd never managed games and tried to be head coach before. The other guys who've done so have earned their stripes through long assistantships and/or had very veteran QBs who really run the offense.

I like Garrett as Head Coach. I am not a fan of Garrett as OC.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,871
Reaction score
15,969
Eskimo;5095091 said:
Because he was the HC which means that he oversaw and supervised Garrett who was his subordinate.

The practices were run the way Wade wanted them to run and not the way Garrett wanted them to run. So if Garrett can't institute his ideas and systems to develop players then he can't be held fully accountable for the results.

Even Wade's players seemed to start playing better again under Garrett: Spencer and Jenkins, in particular, were floundering in 2010 and those were Wade's first rounders.

Wade is a very good DC and has done a great job in Houston helping to turn that crew around. He is just ill-equipped to be a HC and has failed in 3 different locations now. He is a nice guy and has a good mind for defense but he just doesn't have the organizational and leadership skills to be the HC of a successful NFL team.

Wade is a great DC.
He was a crappy HC.
He wasn't however in charge of the offense AT ALL.
Garrett was hired before Wade and reported directly to Jerry.

Wade didn't get to hire his guys or Dan Reeves would have been OC here.

Garrett owns responsibility for Offense from the day he was hired.

Wade owns overall record and the defensive performance from the day he was hired.

Jerry owns setting up that dynamic which failed miserably.
 

Reverend Conehead

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,953
Reaction score
11,858
Garrett's good at motivating players and at organizing. He's shown a good eye for talent in the draft. He sucks at play calling and managing the clock.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Garrett adds tremendous value. He's aggressively rebuilt a roster that was badly depleted by 2010, and done it without any stockpiled picks and with very little in the way of salary cap resources to maneuver with. He's assembled a really top-notch coaching staff. If you can't see how the teams will to hang in and compete to win close games has changed the last two years, you're not paying attention.

I can't imagine what the 2011 roster would have done with the injuries, issues and schedule we had with the 2012 season. We've grown leaders in Murray and Dez and Lee and Church (yes, Church) on both sides of the ball. We're playing young players in key positions where we didn't before. We've overhauled our draft process and improved it in the process. We've done this while maintaining a good offensive team--which he's primarily responsible for. We have no dissent in the locker room. He keeps the Dallas Cowboys Traveling Circus nonsense to an absolute minimum (there's only so much that can be done on that front, but he's done it). He handles the press well. He represents the team well. He was masterful in handling the Jerry Brown tragedy last season.

He's got work to do, but he has probably the hardest job in the NFL, and he's been tasked with repairing the wings on the plane in mid-flight. He needs to improve on game day--mostly *not* when it comes to play calling, but definitely when it comes to game management.

All around, I think he's a very good coach. I don't think it's right to overlook the back to back 8-8s as if they were failures. Both of those seasons could easily have been worse. And hockey-sticking things up after Wade let it spiral to 1-7 back in 2010 is something, for whatever reason, he doesn't get much credit for, but it was no mean feat in its own right. That season could easily have been a much bigger disaster (and, please, just this one, no bemoaning the lost of draft position just because we pulled our team out of the tank against long odds).

Honestly, I don't for the life of me understand why it is that some people don't like Jason Garrett. I honestly don't see what they're complaining about. Even when the problem is explained as 'play calling' or whatever, I still don't understand what people are seeing.
 

17yearsandcounting

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,391
Reaction score
1,678
jterrell;5095097 said:
Wade is a great DC.
He was a crappy HC.
He wasn't however in charge of the offense AT ALL.
Garrett was hired before Wade and reported directly to Jerry.

Wade didn't get to hire his guys or Dan Reeves would have been OC here.

Garrett owns responsibility for Offense from the day he was hired.

Wade owns overall record and the defensive performance from the day he was hired.

Jerry owns setting up that dynamic which failed miserably.


Offensive issues under Wade= All Wade's fault. Fat, slow, incompetent Wade holding back the genius.

Defensive issues under Jason= All Rob's fault for not letting the genius of Jason rub off on him.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
17yearsandcounting;5095115 said:
Offensive issues under Wade= All Wade's fault. Fat, slow, incompetent Wade holding back the genius.

Defensive issues under Jason= All Rob's fault for not letting the genius of Jason rub off on him.

Call me when the team quits on Jason the way they quit on Wade. Or when the interim OC steps in and the unit's play actually improves.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,871
Reaction score
15,969
Idgit;5095106 said:
Garrett adds tremendous value. He's aggressively rebuilt a roster that was badly depleted by 2010, and done it without any stockpiled picks and with very little in the way of salary cap resources to maneuver with. He's assembled a really top-notch coaching staff. If you can't see how the teams will to hang in and compete to win close games has changed the last two years, you're not paying attention.

I can't imagine what the 2011 roster would have done with the injuries, issues and schedule we had with the 2012 season. We've grown leaders in Murray and Dez and Lee and Church (yes, Church) on both sides of the ball. We're playing young players in key positions where we didn't before. We've overhauled our draft process and improved it in the process. We've done this while maintaining a good offensive team--which he's primarily responsible for. We have no dissent in the locker room. He keeps the Dallas Cowboys Traveling Circus nonsense to an absolute minimum (there's only so much that can be done on that front, but he's done it). He handles the press well. He represents the team well. He was masterful in handling the Jerry Brown tragedy last season.

He's got work to do, but he has probably the hardest job in the NFL, and he's been tasked with repairing the wings on the plane in mid-flight. He needs to improve on game day--mostly *not* when it comes to play calling, but definitely when it comes to game management.

All around, I think he's a very good coach. I don't think it's right to overlook the back to back 8-8s as if they were failures. Both of those seasons could easily have been worse. And hockey-sticking things up after Wade let it spiral to 1-7 back in 2010 is something, for whatever reason, he doesn't get much credit for, but it was no mean feat in its own right. That season could easily have been a much bigger disaster (and, please, just this one, no bemoaning the lost of draft position just because we pulled our team out of the tank against long odds).

Honestly, I don't for the life of me understand why it is that some people don't like Jason Garrett. I honestly don't see what they're complaining about. Even when the problem is explained as 'play calling' or whatever, I still don't understand what people are seeing.

negatives:
rigid reliance on process above results
lack of play calling acumen
lack of player development on offense
faulty game mgmt
lack of results
outcoached fairly often thus far in his career

i think garrett is neither exceptional thus far nor terrible and beyond hope.
i think his best coaching is to come but he also has plenty of room for growth.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,871
Reaction score
15,969
Idgit;5095117 said:
Call me when the team quits on Jason the way they quit on Wade. Or when the interim OC steps in and the unit's play actually improves.

Dallas won 2 Division titles under Wade in 4 years. And our only playoff win since 1996.
It is easy to fall back on how badly they were in going 1-7 that final season but Wade finished 34-22 in his tenure here.

JG is 21-19 and had never finished above 3rd place in the NFCE.

JG needs to go 13-3 this year to equal Wade's record as coach.
 
Top