Does Garrett Have Any Real Value as a Head Coach?

DFWJC

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I think Garrett's best value IS as Head Coach.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes with him not being the primary play caller.

But as HC, I really like the typ of guys he has on the team now. They have a passion for the game, there aren't too many divas or me-first types, and the overall age is getting younger every year.
As boring as it sounds, he is sticking to a plan and we'll see how it pans out.
 

IrishAnto

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17yearsandcounting;5095227 said:
The whole 'inherited Parcells players' line cracks me up. Is boy blunder even looking at a third season as head coach if he diddnt inherit a pro bowl QB, a Hall of Fame TE and a Hall of Fame pass rusher?

So the other 43 players on the team don't count?
 

justbob

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I would advise everyone to read over Reality's repost and following it . As far as this thread I will leave it for now --BUT do not continue the bashing.
 

trueblue1687

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justbob;5095307 said:
I would advise everyone to read over Reality's repost and following it . As far as this thread I will leave it for now --BUT do not continue the bashing.

Does that mean that ther'll be no more articles posted that are critical of a Cowboys player/owner/coach??
 

jterrell

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Idgit;5095123 said:
I think several of those are very debatable. Process, especially. It's not results v. process; the two are correlated if the process is right. He's a young coach, and might not have the process just right, but you can tell that he reviews and modifies how he does things from season to season.

I don't know how to fairly judge the plays that he's called, so it's hard to measure that as s criticism.

Player development and execution aren't exactly the same thing, but I'd say that he's had a significant issue with getting his offensive players to execute consistently. Especially the WRs, but they've also had issues with developing young players along the OL, TE, and even having sufficient coverage at RB at times. It's my primary criticism of Garrett.

Game management/getting out coached by good coaches is definitely something JG needs to get better at. I think that's probably to be expected given where he is in his career, but it's a liability, nonetheless.

No problem calling them debatable but it would be a rather one-sided debate, lol.

I am well-trained in process management as a PMO.

I understand the jargon Garrett is using.

But I've also seen just how many times process bogs you down. It often gets in the way of results. Coach Wooden was the greatest process coach ever. Coach Phil Jackson was not. He relied upon psychology and motivation. Jimmy was the same as Phil. More than one way works if you use the proper techniques.

Garrett's processes need processing. What process does he have around late game mgmt? Because that clearly isn't working. Questionable play calling and time out usage is really easy to pick at and hard to argue. Process is often short-circuited by variables. Injecting them and processes can fall apart.
At that point you gotta ask yourself if you should have been more flexible in the first place or spend the time it takes to correct and perfect the process?

We've iced our own kicker for cripessake. We invented a bad play....

I am not against Garrett. I hope he succeeds and has a Landry like Cowboys career. I really do. But he has been far from above reproach thus far. I also believe he has a large list of positives but you seemed to indicate any negative was far-fetched or grasping at straws and that simply isn't the case.

Garrett was 5-3 as interim coach and is 16-16 since. That is actually going backwards not improving. He hasn't had the one bottom fall out half season Wade did but he has also experience zero of Wade's success either as a division winner or playoff team. In many ways being 8-8 is the worst thing an NFL team can be.
 

Wood

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CowboyMcCoy;5095023 said:
I'm asking an honest question. He's not a defensive guy and he can really only coach one position in my opinion. With Parcells and Jimmy, those guys could get a job coaching any position in the NFL--even Wade was a better all-around coach. The only person I think who may be as worthless as a head coach is Dave Campo. I've opposed JG for the last two years. While it doesn't gain me any popularity amongst my co-fans, it does help pass the time when football is not on.

I'm curious, though, what value does he add as a head coach? I can see him as a legitimate quarterback coach or an offensive coordinator. But I think our team suffers because he's not very rounded when it comes to anything else.

I think Jerry has done basically everything you can do to undermine the head coach. It makes no sense but when you have 1 playoff victory in something like 17 years....whoever the leader is they are not making sound decisions. As fans we are caught in this vortex of Jerrys world and will just have to wait it out.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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CowboyMcCoy;5095023 said:
I'm asking an honest question. He's not a defensive guy and he can really only coach one position in my opinion. With Parcells and Jimmy, those guys could get a job coaching any position in the NFL--even Wade was a better all-around coach. The only person I think who may be as worthless as a head coach is Dave Campo. I've opposed JG for the last two years. While it doesn't gain me any popularity amongst my co-fans, it does help pass the time when football is not on.

I'm curious, though, what value does he add as a head coach? I can see him as a legitimate quarterback coach or an offensive coordinator. But I think our team suffers because he's not very rounded when it comes to anything else.

head coach is responsible for most of the culture on the team. we can clearly see that changing as we changed head coaches. that includes how practices are run, locker room, type of guys on the team, etc.

where wade ran a country club and didn't even hold padded practices. garrett wants as much physical contact as allowed by league rules. Jimmy was the same way. where wade had the scouts focus on athleticism, garrett is focused on team leadership, RKG and football players.

there is no denying that he has changed the culture. there is not a single coach in the league that is deeply involved in any one aspect of the game, outside of those who are also coordinators. you rely on your assistant coaches, to ASSIST you in putting a game plan together, then implement it during the week, etc.

so the notion that a head coach needs to also have ability to coach any other position is totally assinine..... the reason you think that way is that often a lot of head coaches move up the ranks that way...

btw, garrett was a QBs coach for a while.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Clove;5095083 said:
I don't know where you're going with this statement, but for the love of good and evil, and this goes for everyone on and off the board. Never compare Championship winners to nobodies.


but what value did tomlin bring to his team, when the OC, DC and position coaches did all the work? perhaps yelling on the side line and slapping players in the back? just sayin
 

Vintage

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I am actually optimistic about how Garrett will fare in his tenure here. I know its popular to be negative, so I guess I will leave it at that. Wouldn't want to derail a thread with positive thoughts.
 

Idgit

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jterrell;5095381 said:
No problem calling them debatable but it would be a rather one-sided debate, lol.

I am well-trained in process management as a PMO.

I understand the jargon Garrett is using.

But I've also seen just how many times process bogs you down. It often gets in the way of results. Coach Wooden was the greatest process coach ever. Coach Phil Jackson was not. He relied upon psychology and motivation. Jimmy was the same as Phil. More than one way works if you use the proper techniques.

Garrett's processes need processing. What process does he have around late game mgmt? Because that clearly isn't working. Questionable play calling and time out usage is really easy to pick at and hard to argue. Process is often short-circuited by variables. Injecting them and processes can fall apart.
At that point you gotta ask yourself if you should have been more flexible in the first place or spend the time it takes to correct and perfect the process?

We've iced our own kicker for cripessake. We invented a bad play....

I am not against Garrett. I hope he succeeds and has a Landry like Cowboys career. I really do. But he has been far from above reproach thus far. I also believe he has a large list of positives but you seemed to indicate any negative was far-fetched or grasping at straws and that simply isn't the case.

Garrett was 5-3 as interim coach and is 16-16 since. That is actually going backwards not improving. He hasn't had the one bottom fall out half season Wade did but he has also experience zero of Wade's success either as a division winner or playoff team. In many ways being 8-8 is the worst thing an NFL team can be.

You're blurring here the process of building and managing a team and the 'process' of managing a game. It's his process for building a staff, managing the cap, managing scouting and the draft, managing the owner to the extent that can be managed, and handling the press that's impressive.

You mention John Wooden. He's a great reference for Garrett, because pretty clearly Jason reads and admires John Wooden. Here's just one of Wooden's quotes on the subject of records:

I've often said some of the greatest teaching jobs are being done by coaches that don't have very outstanding records, because they're not located in a situation where they have an opportunity to have an outstanding record, and yet they may be coming closer to getting the maximum potential out of what they have than somebody who is winning championships.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/questions/wooden.html

It's not all about records. A coach's performance has to be measure relative to his circumstances. At some point, the wins need to come, but the circumstances do matter.

And I hope it isn't coming off as if I'm saying criticism of Garrett is far-fetched or grasping at straws. I don't think it is. I've said myself that he's got a lot of work to do on game days and that his offense overall still has player execution problems that are his responsibility to correct.

I do think he's really strong during the week in-season and all through the offseason. That's particularly important in Dallas. And I think he's adequate on game days and getting better, which is exactly what I'd expect from someone of his tenure.

People will say that the game day coaching by far the most important part of the deal, but I don't think that's the case. Jimmy, for example, was a lot stronger on the other days than he was on game day. Give me a guy with a plan and the will and the smarts to execute it, and surround him with some experienced coordinators and I'm pretty happy.
 

blackbull

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erod;5095093 said:
There isn't a coach in NFL history that could have won with this roster the past three seasons Garrett was here.

Rebuilding takes time.

Lol I remember the (it takes three years to rebuild talk). Pushed the time back eh? Is it year 5 now? Stop it. Get it done this year or get lost.
 

Miller

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blackbull;5095490 said:
Lol I remember the (it takes three years to rebuild talk). Pushed the time back eh? Is it year 5 now? Stop it. Get it done this year or get lost.

This is where these debates always get muddied because people talk about "process" and building a roster but then I hear about parity and how teams like the 49ers, Falcons, Saints, Seahawks all turned it around pretty quick when they were considered the worst teams in the league. Again, I'm not a Garrett fan. He is #1 on my hit list. But I personally like his style and him as a person. I want him to succeed. I just think there is a missing ingredient that stops him from thinking outside his own zone. I have a friend that is a patent attorney. He was some kind of Thermo Nuclear Science major at Rice too. But the guy, in high school, couldn't find my parents house after 4 years. Smart doesn't always translate.
 

Idgit

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HoustonFrog;5095503 said:
This is where these debates always get muddied because people talk about "process" and building a roster but then I hear about parity and how teams like the 49ers, Falcons, Saints, Seahawks all turned it around pretty quick when they were considered the worst teams in the league. Again, I'm not a Garrett fan. He is #1 on my hit list. But I personally like his style and him as a person. I want him to succeed. I just think there is a missing ingredient that stops him from thinking outside his own zone. I have a friend that is a patent attorney. He was some kind of Thermo Nuclear Science major at Rice too. But the guy, in high school, couldn't find my parents house after 4 years. Smart doesn't always translate.

One, we'd be very fortunate to have coaching as good as the 49ers, Falcons, Saints, Seahawks right now. Two, some of those teams didn't necessarily turn things around quickly, and the ones who did did it in part by having solid talent on the roster and then finding quality QB play in unexpected places. We've got the QB, but our job came with some big roster holes in the secondary and OL that are just getting filled. Three, only one of those teams has won its Superbowl already, and it's the one that had some of its own ups and downs as their HC worked his way around the roster after landing his franchise QB.
 

CowboyMcCoy

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erod;5095086 said:
Are we really making a point that a FORMER NFL QUARTERBACK from Princeton doesn't know NFL defense?

So exactly where does that put our opinion s on judging his football knowledge in the first place? Lol

Sure he knows a bit of defense. But can he coach the little things, technique, spirit, form, audibles, etc. Heck no he can't! Are you really saying Garrett is capable of coaching an NFL defense by himself? That's laughable!
 

Fletch

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Beast_from_East;5095141 said:
You may be right about Garrett having the team pointed in the right direction. However, if we miss the playoffs again this year that will be 3.5 seasons as head coach and no playoffs under Garrett.

Its going to be very hard for Jerry to sell Garrett to the fans if we miss the playoffs again this year. The majority of fans are going to be calling for a new head coach if Garrett cant make the playoffs in 3.5 seasons.

That's just reality.

Good thing the fans don't run this team.

BTW, Idgit has OWNED this thread.
 

Picksix

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Aven8;5095054 said:
The only thing he has proven is we can win 8 games a season.

Which is as much as or more than Fisher, Belichick, Landry, Walsh, Noll, Shanahan, and our own beloved Jimmy Johnson proved they could do in their first two years as a head coach.
 

Picksix

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CowboyMcCoy;5095514 said:
Sure he knows a bit of defense. But can he coach the little things, technique, spirit, form, audibles, etc. Heck no he can't! Are you really saying Garrett is capable of coaching an NFL defense by himself? That's laughable!

Who says he should ever have to? Could Jimmy do that? Could Payton, McCarthy, Harbaugh (either one). Shoot, John Harbaugh was a ST coach before he took over.
 

CowboyMcCoy

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Picksix;5095556 said:
Who says he should ever have to? Could Jimmy do that? Could Payton, McCarthy, Harbaugh (either one). Shoot, John Harbaugh was a ST coach before he took over.

Jimmy and Parcells could both do it. Another guy who can coordinate both sides of the ball--Bill Cowher.
 
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