Does Garrett still get the credit for building the team?

[khiladi]

So by this logic, you deduct points from Jimmy Johnson for not wanting Troy or Smith? The draft is a fluid situation, it changes after every pick. Sometimes, the guy you want is there, sometimes not, so you adjust and pick the next guy up. Just because Fredbeard was not the target at the beginning of the draft, a lot of credit goes to them for selecting him, especially since he would have been available 3 or 4 rounds later, so I heard on this board at that time.

Like it or not, the HC gets credit for building the team. Just like Lord Jimmy gets credit even though Michael and OL were pretty much handed to him, Troy fell in his lap and we got E Smith as a consolation prize after all his LBers were taken off the board.

Jason Garrett was on this team for years and our OL only started looking good, when his hand-chosen guy Houck retired after 4 years and we picked up Callahan, who took Garrett's job away after year 1 calling plays, because he was obviously bringing something to the team, but Garrett couldn't stand it and felt threatened, so he kept interfering, brought in Linehan, and forced Callahan into leaving... So yeah, I'll credit Callahan...

 

[CowboyRoy]

I agree, but do think he is given extra input @ times (Escobar was JG there is no doubt about that) more than anything but would be wrong to pin all the failures on him when we know who it really falls under.

Well, we know that he likes big tall receivers in his offense. That much certainly I can say without hesitation was his influence. And Im not so sure how well that has worked out. Certainly the defensive side of the ball I can say without any doubt that he has no say what so ever. So does he have SOME influence in certain areas, I would say yes. But compared to most coaches around the league I would say he has less. And we know how Jones and Stephen run things here with the draft and personnel. So for anyone to say that Garrett is the roster builder here is way off base in my opinion.

And this RKG thing now is more of a running joke. Jerry simply hasnt held true to that type of player. And that is more evidence that Garrett simply doesnt have the control there.

Im not sure anyone is as bad as Jerry. So maybe Garrett would do better if he had all the say.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I agree, but do think he is given extra input @ times (Escobar was JG there is no doubt about that) more than anything but would be wrong to pin all the failures on him when we know who it really falls under.

This Escobar thing is another mystery concerning Garrett. He has consistently wanted certain players for his offense and then failed to implement them. Williams is one of the only ones I can think of where that happened quickly.

 

[CowboyRoy]

The coaches never targeted Floyd. The scouts wanted Floyd. The coaches told Jerry that they didn't want Floyd because he doesn't fit their scheme. We chose Frederick and then Jerry hired Willie McClay because Ciskowski was not doing a good job of getting the scouts and the coaches on the same page.

In defense of Garrett, he immediately wanted to address the center position by dumping Gurode. I think he was forced to have Gurode because of Wade and Jerry. He tried Phil Costa and then we had that disastrous seasons where we went thru 6 different centers due to injuries. So, while I'm sure Callahan played a big role in Frederick, I do think Garrett was more than willing to get a center because he had been wanting one since the onset of him being the HC. He just allowed Callahan to pick who he wanted.

All that happened with the O-Line is what happens with most positions in the NFL with most teams...the position coaches play a huge part in who gets drafted. It's not really a HC thing or even a GM thing as much as it is a scouting department, position coaches and coordinators thing.

Guys like Terrance Williams and Devin Street were brought here at the behest of Derek Dooley. Beasley was brought here at the behest of Jimmy Robinson. Escobar with Mike Pope. The linebackers are Eberflus influenced picks, etc. The HC and the GM/owner give the final okay, but most of the time they are not going to disagree if the position coaches and scouts are on board.


There is no way that the HC has the final say here in Dallas. They clearly pick players in spite of Garrett. We have seen it year after year with the war room cameras.





YR

 

[CowboyRoy]

There is no way that the HC has the final say here in Dallas. They clearly pick players in spite of Garrett. We have seen it year after year with the war room cameras.

 

[CowboyRoy]

So by this logic, you deduct points from Jimmy Johnson for not wanting Troy or Smith? The draft is a fluid situation, it changes after every pick. Sometimes, the guy you want is there, sometimes not, so you adjust and pick the next guy up. Just because Fredbeard was not the target at the beginning of the draft, a lot of credit goes to them for selecting him, especially since he would have been available 3 or 4 rounds later, so I heard on this board at that time.

Like it or not, the HC gets credit for building the team. Just like Lord Jimmy gets credit even though Michael and OL were pretty much handed to him, Troy fell in his lap and we got E Smith as a consolation prize after all his LBers were taken off the board.

Like it or not, the HC gets credit for building the team.

Not by the educated fan here in Dallas. Anyone that is a avid fan of Dallas knows it doesnt work that way here.

 

[CowboyRoy]

lol... I agree wholeheartedly he is not a good coach but that is not what this thread is about. I am doing my best not to bash him in this thread. The point is so many gave him credit for building the team. I was not one of those but I admit he probably had input on the decisions. He was handed a big comtract last year and most think he is safe based on that. Jerry has made statements the last two weeks that he is not happy so there may be at least tiny chance he makes a move this offseason. Jerry could save face by promoting Garrett citing his input in building the team. I personally think this is a much better roster than our record indicates no matter who the QB is. Does Garrett get credit for that? I do not know. The question does Jerry think so and is he ready to make a move on hiring a new coach?

Input? Ok no problem he has input. So like we said, he didnt build the roster.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Jason Garrett was on this team for years and our OL only started looking good, when his hand-chosen guy Houck retired after 4 years and we picked up Callahan, who took Garrett's job away after year 1 calling plays, because he was obviously bringing something to the team, but Garrett couldn't stand it and felt threatened, so he kept interfering, brought in Linehan, and forced Callahan into leaving... So yeah, I'll credit Callahan...

Garretts first attempt are redoing the Oline was a total and complete disaster. He wanted athletic, lighter lineman for his finesse offense. Felix Jones and all these little scat backs in has pass happy dream offense. Its was obvious they scrapped that and started drafted road graders like they had in the past. That is when the real Oline revamp began.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Way too many voices. If you have a unified direction that does not depend on whatever coaching staff you have, that is how you truly achieve consistency in talent evaluation.

Derek Dooley could be the biggest imbecile and worst judge of talent ever. Yet he gets a say? Seriously? He's a positional coach, and barely a decent one, if at all.

Good leaders know how to delegate authority. There's no way a HC can effectively do it all himself. Jimmy didn't (regardless of what nonsense he claims) and when he tried in Miami, he failed miserably. Chip Kelly is learning that lesson right now.





YR

 

[BigStar]

Well, we know that he likes big tall receivers in his offense. That much certainly I can say without hesitation was his influence. And Im not so sure how well that has worked out. Certainly the defensive side of the ball I can say without any doubt that he has no say what so ever. So does he have SOME influence in certain areas, I would say yes. But compared to most coaches around the league I would say he has less. And we know how Jones and Stephen run things here with the draft and personnel. So for anyone to say that Garrett is the roster builder here is way off base in my opinion.

And this RKG thing now is more of a running joke. Jerry simply hasnt held true to that type of player. And that is more evidence that Garrett simply doesnt have the control there.

Im not sure anyone is as bad as Jerry. So maybe Garrett would do better if he had all the say.

Oh I know RKG was always just the "feel good" coach speak to resemble some kind of organizational standard in how the team acquires talent; after the fact, etc. JG's influence is saved for feel good slogans in the locker room and day to day worktype of organization in terms of meetings/keeping schedules. I know game-planning is certainly held in a different room after given vague guidance to play to the conservative odds and sticking to the scheme as determined in the off season by JG and staff. You believe JJ is telling JG to play conservatively?

 

[Wolfpack]

Honestly...You could put a fathead in Garrett's place on draft day...and you wouldn't know the difference. That's how much input he has had in building this team.

You could do that for the sideline as well.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Garrett should get credit for helping build the team. How much? Only the Jones, McClay, and scouting dept know for sure.

But I reckon this thread was set up for yet another JG bash session.

What gave it away?

Oh, maybe its because thats pretty much what all threads are or turn into . . . . . .

 

[cml750]

What gave it away?

Oh, maybe its because thats pretty much what all threads are or turn into . . . . . .

That was not my intention.

 

[Rockport]

The roster is good, but without Romo checking into the right plays, this thing is stuck in the mud.

The defense can't get takeaways because the other teams are not taking any chances. They don't have to against Weeden and Cassel.

Very good points.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Garrett has had probably the biggest influence on the roster turnaround more than any other person.
Jerry has even said that Jason was a big part of this...yes...process...

Jason was the guy who started getting rid of the aging out of shape overpaid players not producing.
how many Ol and others had people complained about for years. Then Jason started getting rid of them. Yes, the team took salary cap hits. But look at the OL now for example. If Jason didn't get rid of those old under achieving OL, we would not have the OL we have now.
Regardless if one thinks who brought them in. as it was a team deal or not. but Jason started rebuilding the team. And that takes a good 3 years to do in most cases.

2 injury depleted season, and now a third without Romo...

You mean Callahan built this Oline not Garrett. Garrett was a pass happy OC who would rather sling it around rather than run the ball. It was when Linehan came here and saw that Callahan had some really good plays to add to the offense. Thus our success last year was the running game and Callahan had everything to do with that. Not Garrett.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

That was not my intention.

With Red's track record its hard for any anybody to just ignore it or not post about it. Its his team so it all points to him.

 

[jazzcat22]

You mean Callahan built this Oline not Garrett. Garrett was a pass happy OC who would rather sling it around rather than run the ball. It was when Linehan came here and saw that Callahan had some really good plays to add to the offense. Thus our success last year was the running game and Callahan had everything to do with that. Not Garrett.

Uhhhh...last time I checked you still need OL in the passing game, has something changed recently?
And it was Garrett that started get rid of the old OL, then they started drawing new OL. It was NOT all Callahan.
Garrett always wanted to run the ball, and he has said that, but also other thongs dictated otherwise at the time.
Like playing from behind mostly so had to pass.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Uhhhh...last time I checked you still need OL in the passing game, has something changed recently?
And it was Garrett that started get rid of the old OL, then they started drawing new OL. It was NOT all Callahan.
Garrett always wanted to run the ball, and he has said that, but also other thongs dictated otherwise at the time.
Like playing from behind mostly so had to pass.

Your giving too much credit to Garrett which he doesn't deserve. Callahan made this offensive line what it is - not Garrett.

Garrett has no knowledge of the zone blocking scheme and he sure did not make those run plays which we saw alot last year. It was Callahan. Even Linehan stated it himself that Callahan brought some good things to this running game and thus they used his plays from Callahan's playbook. Why do you think they promoted him to the running game assistant coach? Thats not a feel good title. Its because Callahan was in charge of the running game and the zone blocking scheme.

As for the passing game the blocking scheme was a zone blocking scheme which Callahan brought over to Dallas. Not Garrett.

Lastly, Garrett got rid of aging olinemens. But who did he replace them with? The Costas, Arkens and scrubs which set us back for years.

It was not until Will Clay came into the scene that our drafting started to get better. All Garrett did was say say YES and get credit for things he didn't do.

Garrett doesn't bring anything to the table. He got his coaching position just because he was a backup QB to Aikman. Nothing more.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Like Idgit said, its a good topic for discussion and we all should be able to discuss this without turning into a Garrett sucks thread.

I think anybody looking at this objectively can say that this team has major problems besides their starting QB being hurt. Our defense is the worst in the entire NFL at TO differential. I believe we might be the only team in the NFL without an interception by a CB. Last time I checked a couple of weeks ago, we were last in the NFL in 4th quarter sacks, I doubt that has changed much. On offense, while our running totals are not actually bad, we are the worst team in the entire NFL on converting 3rd and 1. Our playcalling is very predictable, several posters have listed stats showing what plays we run based on down, distance, and formation. We use almost no deception or creativity on offense and run very vanilla schemes that rely more on players winning their one-on-one matchups than anything else.

This is not a rant, this is objectively listing the problems that a 4-9 team has. Now the million dollar question is, how much of this is Jason Garrett's fault?

I personally believe that a professional head coach (in any sport) should be judged by the performance of his or her team and that is usually evaluated by looking at the win and loss record of the team during their tenure. Head coaches that are considered the best in their sport have won championships, usually several. Other head coaches that maybe have not won a championship but always have their teams in the playoffs year in and year out are usually considered very good coaches. Coaches that win just about the same number of games as they lose are usually referred to as "500 coaches" and are considered a dime a dozen in most professional sports, nothing special. Usually they will have one or two seasons that are extremely good, but the norm is to hover around 500 most seasons.

Jason Garrett is 46-41 as an NFL head coach...........87 games over a 6 year time frame...........I think it is pretty clear which group he is in.

 

[TwoDeep3]

This team was built primarily by the decision to acquire and keep Romo.

I base this on the fact that Romo is an elite quarterback, handcuffed by a front office that meddles and makes piss poor decisions. One of which is to hire mediocre head coaches so a geriatric owner can act like all this is his doing.

Funny thing is, it is his doing and the results over the last decade of Romo indicate the GM is the architect of this debacle.

Surely a true head coach would demand from his GM a semblance of continuity by not allowing critical pieces to walk away. That head coach would push the GM to buy early and cheap the known stars to manage the cap, and put critical pieces in place on both lines. By imploring the owner to be foresighted and manage the assets in such a way it builds a powerhouse instead of buying what is shiny, a real head coach would be one of the main factors because he not only inspired the players and coaching staff, along with the scouting department, but also his persona would elevate the GM and owner to see the central vision.

The winning vision.

No pass rush, no pass defense.

No pass protection/running lanes, no offense.

No playmakers, no play-offs.

But the really tuned in head coach would have pushed for a back-up for Romo to be groomed when age began to be a factor.

Romo bought legitimacy for the GM and won games, which allowed the GM to believe he was a savant at being a football guy. Romo also gave hope to fans and enriched the owner, who believed in the GM.

This team was built incorrectly, and its positive points are also its negative points in the fact Romo made everything better, but he also caused a narcissistic owner to believe the GM was making all the right moves.

Which is ironic since the GM and owner had NOTHING to do with acquiring Romo. Fantasy island lives in the mind of the GM and owner.

Garrett is a puppet, and the fact he desperately wanted his league-leading running back to stay, but was out voted by the Father and the Son, in which Chip Kelly spent money taking Dallas down by subtraction indicates Garrett may have a key to the executive washroom, but he damn sure has to clean it every night before leaving.