Don't expect full 12 set this year

[gimmesix]

For those expecting Dallas to cut FB Lawrence Vickers and rely completely on the 12 personnel (two-tight end set) this year, I think you're getting ahead of yourself.

I know we want to somehow justify the Gavin Escobar pick, but I think it's too much to expect the rookie to be a full-time starter from the get-go, especially considering that his blocking needs work.

I think Dallas will begin moving toward a two-TE set with Witten and Escobar as this season progresses, but it won't be fully realized until 2014. Dallas will need Vickers' blocking at times this season.

I know that won't please some Cowboys fans (because nothing does), but we often expect too much from these players making the transition to the NFL. As Garrett says, "It's a process."

Dallas sees the long-term picture, and hopes for some short-term success getting there.

 

[Ring6]

an occasional 3-TE set would be interesting, depending on weekly matchup, and just to get into the next week's opponent's head.

 

[Galian Beast]

For those expecting Dallas to cut FB Lawrence Vickers and rely completely on the 12 personnel (two-tight end set) this year, I think you're getting ahead of yourself.

I know we want to somehow justify the Gavin Escobar pick, but I think it's too much to expect the rookie to be a full-time starter from the get-go, especially considering that his blocking needs work.

I think Dallas will begin moving toward a two-TE set with Witten and Escobar as this season progresses, but it won't be fully realized until 2014. Dallas will need Vickers' blocking at times this season.

I know that won't please some Cowboys fans (because nothing does), but we often expect too much from these players making the transition to the NFL. As Garrett says, "It's a process."

Dallas sees the long-term picture, and hopes for some short-term success getting there.

I think you're wrong, since we've already been using a lot of 12.

The fact is we have Escobar and we have Hanna. They'll both be used in this role. That being said, we'll also use 3 receiver sets.

The role of the fullback in this offense was already greatly diminished. Vickers price, and the resources put into Escobar and Williams greatly suggests that Vickers will be gone.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

I think you're wrong. Escobar its the type of pick that can start from day one if necessary.

 

[Galian Beast]

People focus too much on the term starter.

I don't see Vickers being here at all. Thus I think you'll see mostly a combination of 12 and 3 receiver sets. Not to mention the occasional four receiver set, and empty backfields.

 

[InmanRoshi]

You're late to the party. For year's we've been running as much 12 Personnel as any team in the league not named New England or San Francisco. Many of the times when Vickers was in the game we were running 22.

And Vickers was a huge liability last year. I don't think the Cowboys will be reticent to cut back on his snaps .... assuming he's not released before camp.

 

[gimmesix]

You're late to the party. We've already been running as much 12 Personnel as any team in the league not named New England or San Francisco. Many of the times when Vickers was in the game we were running 22.

What I was trying to say is I don't think Dallas is going to rely on Escobar as much as people think the Cowboys will rely on him right away.

I think he has great growth potential, but blocking will be a work in progress.

How much we use the 12 will likely depend on his development as a blocker and Hanna's. Last year, we had Phillips, who was a good blocker, but never got back to being the receiver we needed after his injury.

We might actually use the two-tight end set less at first because of the blocking unless Dallas is comfortable with Hanna's blocking or Escobar proves to be better at it right away than expected.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Phillips was actually pretty putrid as a blocker last year. We just had no one else to turn to.

And while Escobar might need some technique cleanup, and a lot of that will come from just being a fulltime football player rather than an amateur who is mandated to only practice 20 hours a week max, he wasn't exactly getting amateur league coaching under Bob Toledo at SDSU. He was running a pro style offense with all the pre-snap motioning. I would be more uneasy if he had played in some spread offense and had never played at Y in his entire career.

 

[Galian Beast]

What I was trying to say is I don't think Dallas is going to rely on Escobar as much as people think the Cowboys will rely on him right away.

I think he has great growth potential, but blocking will be a work in progress.

How much we use the 12 will likely depend on his development as a blocker and Hanna's. Last year, we had Phillips, who was a good blocker, but never got back to being the receiver we needed after his injury.

We might actually use the two-tight end set less at first because of the blocking unless Dallas is comfortable with Hanna's blocking or Escobar proves to be better at it right away than expected.

You make it sound as if these guys can't block at all. The reality is that by dictating to the offense, you can put them in positions where they can flourish.

If they put linebackers out there, you can pass the majority of the time, rather than run. If they put corners out there, you can run the majority of the time, and while they might not be great at blocking defensive ends or even linebackers, they are certainly going to have the edge over a corner.

 

[gimmesix]

Phillips was actually pretty putrid as a blocker last year. We just had no one else to turn to.

And while Escobar might need some technique cleanup, and a lot of that will come from just being a fulltime football player rather than an amateur who is mandated to only practice 20 hours a week max, he wasn't exactly getting amateur league coaching under Bob Toledo at SDSU. He was running a pro style offense with all the pre-snap motioning. I would be more uneasy if he had played in some spread offense and had never played at Y in his entire career.

Phillips was a better blocker last year than what I see from Escobar on video. He tries, but gets ragdolled. You can't run the 12 to max potential if your second tight end can't block.

Again, I'm not saying they won't run it, but I wouldn't expect it as much with Escobar until Dallas sees it can trust him as a blocker. With Hanna, I'm not sure. He showed more as a blocker than was expected last year.

 

[gimmesix]

You make it sound as if these guys can't block at all. The reality is that by dictating to the offense, you can put them in positions where they can flourish.

If they put linebackers out there, you can pass the majority of the time, rather than run. If they put corners out there, you can run the majority of the time, and while they might not be great at blocking defensive ends or even linebackers, they are certainly going to have the edge over a corner.

The 12 has to be able to run even when linebackers are on the field or it's a one-dimensional set. The purpose of using it is to keep defenses guessing, which makes it tough to stop.

 

[Hoofbite]

You're late to the party. For year's we've been running as much 12 Personnel as any team in the league not named New England or San Francisco. Many of the times when Vickers was in the game we were running 22.

And Vickers was a huge liability last year. I don't think the Cowboys will be reticent to cut back on his snaps .... assuming he's not released before camp.

I'd bet the list is longer than just those two. Probably a few other teams out there.

 

[Galian Beast]

The 12 has to be able to run even when linebackers are on the field or it's a one-dimensional set. The purpose of using it is to keep defenses guessing, which makes it tough to stop.

I swear you read what you want to hear...

 

[Galian Beast]

2010 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:
Aaron Hernandez, TE, Florida
Hernandez emerged as arguably the best tight end of college football last season, catching 68 passes for 850 yards and five touchdowns. He also hauled in five TD passes as a sophomore in 2008, but the Florida Gator became a pass-catching weapon all over the field in 2009 and was Tim Tebow's favorite target. Hernandez earned First-Team All-America honors, and with a host of Florida players going pro, it is no surprise that Hernandez is turning his attention to the next level. "Aaron was one of the very best at his position that I have ever been around," said coach Urban Meyer. "He has been a key part of our success over the years, but now he has the opportunity to fulfill a lifetime dream by playing in the NFL. He has all of the tools to be successful at the next level." Those tools include a 6'2', 250-pound frame and speed under 4.6 in the 40-yard dash (he has been clocked as fast as 4.52). Hernandez is the essence of a pass-catching tight end. He knows how to get open and has great hands, while blocking is certainly not his specialty. He will have to improve in that department in order to become a real star in the NFL, but for now plenty of teams will covet him as a down-the-field weapon. Hernandez should go off the board no later than round three of April's draft; with a solid performance at the the combine, he could be a second-round selection.
Last Updated Jan-14-2010 by Ricky Dimon

 

[gimmesix]

I swear you read what you want to hear...

Tell me what I missed?

You said if they put corners out there, the tight ends can block them. If they put linebackers out there, Dallas can pass all day.

My point is, if the tight ends can't block the linebackers, then we're one-dimensional, which gives the defense the upperhand. You can't pass all day against a defense that knows you have to. Even with linebackers on the field, if they know it's coming, they can do a better job of stopping it.

The tight ends have to be able to block the linebackers decently to maximize the potential of the package.

 

[Galian Beast]

Aaron Hernandez Scouting Report
By Matt McGuire

Strengths:
Very good, smooth athlete
Outstanding receiver after the catch
Nice hand-eye coordination
Shows ability to adjust to poorly thrown ball
Consistent, soft hands
Elusive with nice speed
Tough over the middle
Not an easy tackle
Great red-zone target
Terrific vision in open field
Prototypical H-Back or spread tight end



Weaknesses:
Mediocre size
Very poor blocker; not interested or physical
Poor hand use when asked to fight in booth
Lacks polish as route runner
Not a good fit for every scheme
Character concerns
Wasn't asked to run many routes like dig, post, deep out

 

[Galian Beast]

Rob Gronkowski Scouting Report
By Matt McGuire

Strengths:
Long frame with good strength
Good route runner
Fluid in and out of his breaks
Competitive when ball is in air
Physical runner
Underrated blocker
Does a good job of using his hands and extending
Impressive straight-line speed
Red zone threat
Consistent hands and plucks the ball
Extremely high upside as a run blocker



Weaknesses:
Very serious durability concerns (back)
Doesn't maximize Y.A.C.
Lacks some running vision in open field
Doesn't have top-end athleticism or agility
Run blocking technique a little inconsistent
Might have some rust as a rookie (didn't play football in 2009)

 

[Galian Beast]

Tell me what I missed?

You said if they put corners out there, the tight ends can block them. If they put linebackers out there, Dallas can pass all day.

My point is, if the tight ends can't block the linebackers, then we're one-dimensional, which gives the defense the upperhand. You can't pass all day against a defense that knows you have to. Even with linebackers on the field, if they know it's coming, they can do a better job of stopping it.

The tight ends have to be able to block the linebackers decently to maximize the potential of the package.

You missed what I said, because you don't want to listen. I don't think anyone is saying this kid can't block linebackers. He just needs to improve his blocking in general. Watch his video, you can see him block successfully. I certainly think people are making more out of this than there is. They say that about most pass catching tight ends, who aren't necessarily used that much in blocking in college. He'll be coached up, but his primary role isn't going to be blocking.

 

[gimmesix]

2010 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:
Aaron Hernandez, TE, Florida
Hernandez emerged as arguably the best tight end of college football last season, catching 68 passes for 850 yards and five touchdowns. He also hauled in five TD passes as a sophomore in 2008, but the Florida Gator became a pass-catching weapon all over the field in 2009 and was Tim Tebow's favorite target. Hernandez earned First-Team All-America honors, and with a host of Florida players going pro, it is no surprise that Hernandez is turning his attention to the next level. "Aaron was one of the very best at his position that I have ever been around," said coach Urban Meyer. "He has been a key part of our success over the years, but now he has the opportunity to fulfill a lifetime dream by playing in the NFL. He has all of the tools to be successful at the next level." Those tools include a 6'2', 250-pound frame and speed under 4.6 in the 40-yard dash (he has been clocked as fast as 4.52). Hernandez is the essence of a pass-catching tight end. He knows how to get open and has great hands, while blocking is certainly not his specialty. He will have to improve in that department in order to become a real star in the NFL, but for now plenty of teams will covet him as a down-the-field weapon. Hernandez should go off the board no later than round three of April's draft; with a solid performance at the the combine, he could be a second-round selection.
Last Updated Jan-14-2010 by Ricky Dimon

OK, if we can use Escobar exactly like the Patriots use Hernandez, then I guess it will be fine. He hardly ever blocks, but lines up wide as a receiver and in the backfield as a runner.

But Hernandez is a better (faster?) receiver than a lot of receivers. I don't know if Escobar can be viewed that way. He's a pass-catching tight end, but I don't think he's better in that department than the top three receivers we have. If he's going to be out there not blocking, I'd rather put Bryant, Austin and Williams on the field.

 

[Galian Beast]

OK, if we can use Escobar exactly like the Patriots use Hernandez, then I guess it will be fine. He hardly ever blocks, but lines up wide as a receiver and in the backfield as a runner.

But Hernandez is a better (faster?) receiver than a lot of receivers. I don't know if Escobar can be viewed that way. He's a pass-catching tight end, but I don't think he's better in that department than the top three receivers we have. If he's going to be out there not blocking, I'd rather put Bryant, Austin and Williams on the field.

It's not just about speed. He is still gonna be faster than most linebackers, and he is certainly going to be bigger than corners. Witten isn't the fastest thing on two legs, it's not just about that. Neither is Gronkowski.