Drop off at positions of need-possible trade downs

[Hawkeye0202]

No, just no to drafting a LT in the 1st. If the draft isnt going our way on defensive players and they start going, we actually want to trade up (possibly NO at 8), get the defensive piece we want, and if we us 12 and 20 to move up we may get no 42 and 73,

So what's the difference between 20 and 42 (plus 1st RD Grade defensive piece)?

We are going to have make do on Offense (after Javonte and Pickens)..... we cant skimp of the defensive rebuild.

+1

 

[baltcowboy]

I wanted to do a post looking at our positions of need determining how great of a drop-off between the top prospects to the next tier:

Safety-Downs-Thieneman. Downs is considered to be one of the best players in the entire class.

Linebacker-Styles-Allen/Hill. Gap isn't too wide. All three project as plug and play starters.

Edge-Bain/Bailey-Mesador/Height/Howell. I just included the top pure pass rushers. 2nd tier has two prospects who are 24 and another who has short arms. Think 2nd tier are more floor type players, where the 1st tier has elite upside potential.

Corner-McCoy/Delane-Cisse/Terrell/Hood-think all would project as year 1 starters, although Terrell might be more of a slot corner. However, big gap from McCoy (if healthy) to everyone else.

Tackle-Mauigoa/Fano-Proctor/Lomu-not a great class looking for a tackle, especially a left tackle. Some of these players might even be considered Guards by some teams. Gap isn't large from the top to the next tier.

Safety, Edge appear to be the widest gaps, where CB it McCoy then a wide gap to the next group. This suggests do not trade away from Downs, Bain/Bailey or McCoy. If you get wiped out and can find a trade partner, make the deal.

I would wait until after the combine before we rank these guys. I am hearing Styles is going to steal the show because he is an athletic freak. Bain might actually fall in our laps because of his weird build. Cisse is the cornerback to look at moving up. He has all the tools but has no injuries. Delane is a good player but he better run 4.4. Overall there appears to be less then 15 first round grades and bunch of guys in the 2nd/3rd round. I think 12 will be an easy pick the problem will be at 20. Pick or trade down????

 

[visionary]

He is, but I’m looking for the best pure pass rushing prospects as we can always find a run defender later on

Im not in favor of having 2 250 lb DEs starting
Id rather get a real DE opposite EZ
When you stop the run and set the edge and get pressure up the middle, the rush will get home
JMO

 

[Cowboyny]

Im not in favor of having 2 250 lb DEs starting
Id rather get a real DE opposite EZ
When you stop the run and set the edge and get pressure up the middle, the rush will get home
JMO

In perfect world, I agree, but we have to fix our pass rush or we have zero chance for success. Our run defense was very good after the Williams trade

 

[Cowboyny]

I would wait until after the combine before we rank these guys. I am hearing Styles is going to steal the show because he is an athletic freak. Bain might actually fall in our laps because of his weird build. Cisse is the cornerback to look at moving up. He has all the tools but has no injuries. Delane is a good player but he better run 4.4. Overall there appears to be less then 15 first round grades and bunch of guys in the 2nd/3rd round. I think 12 will be an easy pick the problem will be at 20. Pick or trade down????

Be careful not to overrate or undervalue prospects based on testing scores. Combine should just confirm what we have saw on tape. When you see a huge jump cause of a 40 time, those players typically tend to bust

 

[Cowboyny]

Id put Parker after Bailey right now. However given our DC interviews, or DE's will likely be rushing the passer standing up, so Howell would likely be preferred. I do wonder how much the arms will drop him. He seemed to build moment in season. Doing some research the shortest arms I could find for a successful DE was Melvin Ingram at 31 inches. Howell's are supposedly 30

Some teams will not consider him at all with that lack of length. Bain is another with short arms. I do think some players can overcome this, but many don’t

 

[baltcowboy]

Be careful not to overrate or undervalue prospects based on testing scores. Combine should just confirm what we have saw on tape. When you see a huge jump cause of a 40 time, those players typically tend to bust

Testing scores matter for most teams. Styles is 6’4 safety/middle linebacker freak. Look at what the South Carolina kid is doing with Seattle. Styles is that kid on steroids. If Delane is under 6”0 and runs a 4.5 he is going to fall. With a good combine Faulk might catapult into the top 10. Plus the interviews will tell another story. I guarantee at least guys that draftnicks have as second round picks get drafted in the top 15. It happens every year. Best example of that is Booker for us.

 

[Cowboyny]

Testing scores matter for most teams. Styles is 6’4 safety/middle linebacker freak. Look at what the South Carolina kid is doing with Seattle. Styles is that kid on steroids. If Delane is under 6”0 and runs a 4.5 he is going to fall. With a good combine Faulk might catapult into the top 10. Plus the interviews will tell another story. I guarantee at least guys that draftnicks have as second round picks get drafted in the top 15. It happens every year. Best example of that is Booker for us.

For the linebacker position the number 1 trait isn’t 40 time it is instincts needed for the position. We have seen athletic freaks become horrible football players but a player like nick Bolton thrive. Sean Lee was another poor athlete, great linebacker.

Teams get themselves in trouble drafting players cause of athletic traits. Yes, certain positions call for them more then others, but take the best football players!

 

[baltcowboy]

For the linebacker position the number 1 trait isn’t 40 time it is instincts needed for the position. We have seen athletic freaks become horrible football players but a player like nick Bolton thrive. Sean Lee was another poor athlete, great linebacker.

Teams get themselves in trouble drafting players cause of athletic traits. Yes, certain positions call for them more then others, but take the best football players!

The last time the Cowboys drafted an instinctive linebacker it was Sean Lee. The Cowboys are a traits team. Styles, Faulk, and McCoy will be top 12 players on their board. I love the fact that Styles was considered a top flight safety. He fits with the new aged defenses.

 

[visionary]

In perfect world, I agree, but we have to fix our pass rush or we have zero chance for success. Our run defense was very good after the Williams trade

Run defense takes all 4 DL and LBs and safeties
2 250 lb DEs will be a big problem
Rushing the passer is not just about the DE, it is about the entire DL. If the offense can run at the DE because he is 250 lbs it breaks down the defense

 

[cnuball21]

For the linebacker position the number 1 trait isn’t 40 time it is instincts needed for the position. We have seen athletic freaks become horrible football players but a player like nick Bolton thrive. Sean Lee was another poor athlete, great linebacker.

Teams get themselves in trouble drafting players cause of athletic traits. Yes, certain positions call for them more then others, but take the best football players!

This is why I like Styles and Hill...plus athletes that are supposed to have good instincts.

 

[Cowboyny]

This is why I like Styles and Hill...plus athletes that are supposed to have good instincts.

Tell you the truth the Georgia linebacker has the best instincts out of the class, but there are questions about having enough athleticism, he is also the best at taking on blockers. Now he might be a liability in coverage, which makes him hard to draft that high.

I do like Styles and Hill but they give me more Lve vibes, might be more weak side linebackers than Mike. It really comes down to what the dc is looking for: an impact run defender or one is is better in coverage and does enough against a the run?

 

[Cowboyny]

Run defense takes all 4 DL and LBs and safeties
2 250 lb DEs will be a big problem
Rushing the passer is not just about the DE, it is about the entire DL. If the offense can run at the DE because he is 250 lbs it breaks down the defense

We got virtually nothing at edge last season, or sack leader 8.5 sacks where 3 came on the final day

 

[cnuball21]

Tell you the truth the Georgia linebacker has the best instincts out of the class, but there are questions about having enough athleticism, he is also the best at taking on blockers. Now he might be a liability in coverage, which makes him hard to draft that high.

I do like Styles and Hill but they give me more Lve vibes, might be more weak side linebackers than Mike. It really comes down to what the dc is looking for: an impact run defender or one is is better in coverage and does enough against a the run?

I agree on Allen. He is a day LBr for me. Reminds me of the Chiefs LBr.

Disagree on Styles and Hill though. I think the athletic ability and length make them perfect for the Mike.

Allen would get destroyed in coverage in the NFL if a team tries to make him a 3 down Mike.

 

[Cowboyny]

The last time the Cowboys drafted an instinctive linebacker it was Sean Lee. The Cowboys are a traits team. Styles, Faulk, and McCoy will be top 12 players on their board. I love the fact that Styles was considered a top flight safety. He fits with the new aged defenses.

Lve was instinctive as well but injuries derailed his career

 

[Cowboyny]

I agree on Allen. He is a day LBr for me. Reminds me of the Chiefs LBr.

Disagree on Styles and Hill though. I think the athletic ability and length make them perfect for the Mike.

Allen would get destroyed in coverage in the NFL if a team tries to make him a 3 down Mike.

Think Lve is a good example for them. Really a will playing the Mike in today’s game. Not the type to take on blockers, but more of run and chase types. However , they project far better then Allen as they do possess that ability to play in space.

If I’m using a 1st rd pick at the position, you take Styles and Hill but not Allen as they project as more three down players.

 

[baltcowboy]

Lve was instinctive as well but injuries derailed his career

The Cowboys knew LVE had a neck injury. The whole league knew. He was off of some team’s board. LVE was a top 5 talent in that draft. The problem was he could only give us one elite season. After the neck flared up he was just trying to make it 5 years so he could get his benefits. He went from an elite player of the year type of off ball linebacker potential to a below average contact avoiding player.

Styles could be what the elite LVE player was.

 

[cnuball21]

Think Lve is a good example for them. Really a will playing the Mike in today’s game. Not the type to take on blockers, but more of run and chase types. However , they project far better then Allen as they do possess that ability to play in space.

If I’m using a 1st rd pick at the position, you take Styles and Hill but not Allen as they project as more three down players.

Agree 100%

I like Allen but feel like he is being overrated as a 1st rounder. Bolton is the comp I was thinking of who we both liked.

 

[cnuball21]

The Cowboys knew LVE had a neck injury. The whole league knew. He was off of some team’s board. LVE was a top 5 talent in that draft. The problem was he could only give us one elite season. After the neck flared up he was just trying to make it 5 years so he could get his benefits. He went from an elite player of the year type of off ball linebacker potential to a below average contact avoiding player.

Styles could be what the elite LVE player was.

I am big fan of Styles my only knock is 1 year starter.

 

[baltcowboy]

I am big fan of Styles my only knock is 1 year starter.

I hear you. I like the fact that Styles was a safety first and I see him more of chess peice playing linebacker and safety depending on the defensive scheme. The kid is a sure tackler and is good in coverage. We certainly need someone with that ability.