Dwayne Harris 3rd WR?

[realtick]

Where do you get that his offense was so unusually simplistic?

Also, he ran a new offense (a variation of the Texas Tech offense) his senior season compared to the 1st 3 years under Skip Holz....so what years are you refferring to? And compared to what schools are you referring to when saying it was uncomplicated?

I bet ECU runs a more complex offense than the majority of the teams out there: with mutiple hot reads, numerous routes lining up from all over the field, and even some wildcat mixed in.

Just curious...maybe you can explain?

BTW, I actually agree with your overall premis that people should not go overboard on DH. Not yet anyway. Letr's see if he can actually earn it over many games.

I'm just curious where your claims come about his lack of sophistication in his offense.

The phrase "unusually simplistic" are your words, not mine, so there's no reason to give an answer for something I never implied. Most college programs run simplistic schemes when compared to what they will encounter in the NFL. ECU is no different. In fact, I've heard Graham Harrell say that the Texas Tech offense was actually quite simple when broken down. It's quick reads, sight adjustments and a whole lot of throwing.

Irregardless if you want to debate the simplicity of college offensive schemes, it's really not my point. The point I was making is that Harris operated in an offense which required him to run simplistic routes, and nowhere near the level that he'll be expected to in the NFL.

To answer your question, I can explain it easily having been aware of Harris for the past two seasons and watching him play at ECU. The Pirates ran its version of the spread out scheme which typically featured four and five receiver sets. The vast majority of Harris' routes were shallow, not going more than 5-10 yards downfield. He ran a lot of drag routes across the middle of the field and smoke/bubble screens. Harris (nor any of their receivers) ran anything close to a complete route tree. If you haven't had a chance to watch him at ECU, you can watch any one of several highlight clips which show exactly as I described. I've included one below for you.

That's not an indictment on Harris or ECU, because the reality is the average DI school doesn't run a sophisticated NFL offensive scheme. Very few even come close.

Much has been made about the complexity, or at least depth of Garrett's playbook. I've heard one rookie (I can't remember his name) mentioned how much thicker his playbook is compared to what he had in college.

[youtube]yzXpeP7Cj3I[/youtube]

 

[realtick]

ecu runs an offense as complex as most colleges. and harris looked plenty fast during the game.

Which is to say most college offensive schemes are not complex.

 

[30yrheel]

Yeah, I can explain it easily having been aware of Harris for the past two seasons and watching him play at ECU. The Pirates ran its version of the spread out scheme which typically featured four and five receiver sets. The vast majority of Harris' routes were shallow, not going more than 5-10 yards downfield. He ran a lot of drag routes across the middle of the field and smoke/bubble screens. Harris (nor any of their receivers) ran anything close to a complete route tree. If you haven't had a chance to watch him at ECU, you can watch any one of several highlight clips which show exactly as I described. I've included one below for you.

That's not an indictment on Harris or ECU, because the reality is the average DI school doesn't run a sophisticated NFL offensive scheme. Very few even come close.

Much has been made about the complexity, or at least depth of Garrett's playbook. I've heard one rookie (I can't remember his name) mentioned how much thicker his playbook is compared to what he had in college.

isn't that what you want from a slot, or third receiver?

 

[30yrheel]

Which is to say most college offensive schemes are not complex.

agreed, which means he can learn an nfl offense as well as anyone from any school. we need him to play the slot, right?

 

[DFWJC]

That's not an indictment on Harris or ECU, because the reality is the average DI school doesn't run a sophisticated NFL offensive scheme. Very few even come close.

That clarifies what you were saying just fine. Thanks

 

[DFWJC]

agreed, which means he can learn an nfl offense as well as anyone from any school. we need him to play the slot, right?

And of course, this is dead on too.

 

[realtick]

agreed, which means he can learn an nfl offense as well as anyone from any school. we need him to play the slot, right?

That remains to be seen. Not every receiver that has come out of college can pick up the nuances of route running. Harris has shown he has good hands and can make a play with the ball in his hands. Good route runners get themselves open and are relied upon by their quarterbacks to be in the right spot at the right time.

 

[DFWJC]

That remains to be seen. Not every receiver that has come out of college can pick up the nuances of route running. Harris has shown he has good hands and can make a play with the ball in his hands. Good route runners get themselves open and are relied upon by their quarterbacks to be in the right spot at the right time.

The Cowboys have already said more than once that Harris is doing very well with the playbook. I would think a former QB and team captain with good grades would do fine in that area.
I think we can all agree, however, that as a rookie his grasp of the playbook will be relative.

 

[realtick]

The Cowboys have already said more than once that Harris is doing very well with the playbook.

I haven't heard anyone from the coaching staff say anything close to that.

They've all inferred that they're happy with him; he's a work in progress; and he's a "gamer."

In fact, Garrett said this regarding Harris: "He has a long way to go in terms of understanding how to be a receiver in the NFL and how to consistently get away from people, but I think you'll see he has a knack for playing."

Jimmy Robinson said this about Harris: "Dwayne is a guy that's kind of a work in progress," Robinson said. "But you can tell he's a ball player because it just seems like he knows how to play the game. He doesn't do everything perfectly, but he catches the ball, he makes the tough catch and he shows a little speed. He catches it and runs with it, and I think he's going to be a good addition for us."

I think you really like the kid and are getting a little defensive of any perceived criticism of him. So it goes back to my first point, coming from where he did and running what they ran at ECU, Harris needs to work on his route running to become the receiver we think he can be.

 

[DFWJC]

I haven't heard anyone from the coaching staff say anything close to that.

They've all inferred that they're happy with him; he's a work in progress; and he's a "gamer."

In fact, Garrett said this regarding Harris: "He has a long way to go in terms of understanding how to be a receiver in the NFL and how to consistently get away from people, but I think you'll see he has a knack for playing."

Jimmy Robinson said this about Harris: "Dwayne is a guy that's kind of a work in progress," Robinson said. "But you can tell he's a ball player because it just seems like he knows how to play the game. He doesn't do everything perfectly, but he catches the ball, he makes the tough catch and he shows a little speed. He catches it and runs with it, and I think he's going to be a good addition for us."

I think you really like the kid and are getting a little defensive of any perceived criticism of him. So it goes back to my first point, coming from where he did and running what they ran at ECU, Harris needs to work on his route running to become the receiver we think he can be.

Yeah I heard those quotes too and agree with them fully.
This is 100% what you would hear on just about any WR after a few days of practice.

You should not mistake me as one in the camp that says he's NFL ready.
All along, I've been one that has said be patient with Harris. The kid is a rookie, and a 6th rounder at that. I shave aid all along for people to keep expectations in check and that if we get ANY contribution from a 6th rounder this year we should consider that draft pick a success. A lot of 5th

As for the comments on him learning the playbook so far, I was not making that up. But yes, they always (correctly) say that he's a work in progress.
It's no big deal. I jumped in on the ECU offesne comment mainly b/c it sounded like you were sigling them out as simplistic--which was somethg I disagreed with when comparing them relative to other D-1 offenses. Then it escalated from the I guess.

 

[realtick]

Yeah I heard those quotes too and agree with them fully.
This is 100% what you would hear on just about any WR after a few days of practice.

You should not mistake me as one in the camp that says he's NFL ready.
All along, I've been one that has said be patient with Harris. The kid is a rookie, and a 6th rounder at that. I shave aid all along for people to keep expectations in check and that if we get ANY contribution from a 6th rounder this year we should consider that draft pick a success. A lot of 5th

As for the comments on him learning the playbook so far, I was not making that up. But yes, they always (correctly) say that he's a work in progress.
It's no big deal. I jumped in on the ECU offesne comment mainly b/c it sounded like you were sigling them out as simplistic--which was somethg I disagreed with when comparing them relative to other D-1 offenses. Then it escalated from the I guess.

It's all good. I think we pretty much agree on the bottomline with Harris.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Much has been made about the complexity, or at least depth of Garrett's playbook. I've heard one rookie (I can't remember his name) mentioned how much thicker his playbook is compared to what he had in college.

I sure as hell hope so.

 

[speedkilz88]

*There was plenty to like in the effort of rookie wide receiver Dwayne Harris against the Broncos. It wasn’t all perfect, but you did see the same flashes the Cowboys’ scouts did off the East Carolina game film.

Harris is one of those players who plays faster than his 40 time. If you noticed on his long touchdown catch and run, the defensive backs were beginning to catch him before he dove into the end zone.

There is no doubt that Harris can catch the football. There was plenty enough times where he caught the ball with defenders on his back or in traffic. On his touchdown catch that allowed the Cowboys to win the game on the two-point play to Martin Rucker, Harris did an outstanding job of being a football player by working himself open in the end zone. Stephen McGee didn’t have much time to deliver the ball because guard Papa Letuli missed his block at the snap. Harris was able to go up and get the ball at the highest point to make the catch.

If Harris has a weakness right now, it is as a route runner. In the games I studied in college, he was always playing the inside slot and most of his work was in the middle of the field. With the Cowboys, he will still play in the slot, but I did see him get some outside work. He was asked to run a slant and was still able to make the catch, but the route was more like a 3-yard “In” route than a slant.

There was also a point in the contest where McGee was trying to get him to come back for the football when it looked as if he needed to run the “hot” route instead of carrying his route up the field. To his credit, Harris did read the “hot” correct on his catch and run for the long touchdown.



http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/

 

[dmq]

LB Sean Lee yelled to Thomas about the miscue.

Future leader folks.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Future leader folks.

Yep I noticed that as well...

 

[speedkilz88]

Future leader folks.

Did Thomas yell back about the missed tackles and over pursuing?

 

[Stautner]

You argument is now only down to semantics.

I disagree - it is still based on what happened on the field. Performances like when everyone on the field knew the ball was going to Michael Irvin, yet they still couldn't stop him - that's dominance. Plays like catching a 1 yard pass and having a 20 yard wide running line to the end zone are taking advantage of a major defensive bust. It's like the difference between one pass rusher that gets a couple of sacks and several pressures while fighting through double teams, and another who gets similar stats by being left unblocked a number of times during the game. Both are "top performances" statistically, but only one player was "dominant".

 

[DFWJC]

BTW--some trivia here--Harris did run a 4.38 at his Pro Day.

Yes, I do realize that a lot of those Pro Day times seem to come in better (an I'm a critic of using Pro day times) but that is a big difference.

 

[Doomsday101]

The overeaction by fans wanting to crown Harris after a preseason game is reminscent of how some folks were looking at Bryan McCann after his 100-yard interception return against the Giants.

Harris made some plays, which all you can ask of him in a given situation.

I'm more impressed with his second TD catch in the endzone than I am with the 76-yarder. He showed good hands and attacked the ball in the endzone where it counts.

By all accounts, from the past few weeks, Harris has shown that he's a gamer that needs continued refinement. He hasn't blown anyone away with his talent as Dez did in last year's OTA's and training camp before his injury.

Even after this game the coaching staff was given him tempered praise in saying he has a lot to learn and needs polishing.

I'm excited as everyone else in seeing what he can do, but when you consider where he came from (ECU) and how he was utilized (simplistic route running), you know that he's likely a bit raw from just being handed the #3 job.

He has work to do but he also showed he could play ball and make plays when we needed them the most. That 1 long play was great but not what impressed me. I look forward to see him over the next few games to see if he can make those critical catches. As for being the #3 he will have to earn it but the same can be said for the other guys fighting for the job

 

[realtick]

BTW--some trivia here--Harris did run a 4.38 at his Pro Day.

Yes, I do realize that a lot of those Pro Day times seem to come in better (an I'm a critic of using Pro day times) but that is a big difference.

Harris ran a 4.51 at his Pro Day.

http://nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66860&draftyear=2011&genpos=WR