Dynasty building (tap the brakes, I know)

[waldoputty]

One or even two championships does not a dynasty make. With Romo's given time left to his career, two championships is the best we can hope for(and that is being generous). The state of the Cowboys, post-Romo is not a team trending toward dynasty status.

the point is the extra $ can enable us to replace Romo and acquiring a top DE.

If you take a look at our perennial probowler Tyron's 10 year contract, it is now the 3rd highest average for LT.
Trent Williams and Terron Armstead contracts now exceed Tyron's contract.

Tyron's contract also lasts the longest, with free agency in 2024!
In a couple of years, Tyron's contract becomes a bargain.
that is because of salary escalation from the cap that may be rising $10million per year.

if we can do this with the other OL by signing them early, we may have a ~$10 million stash of extra $ that no other team has access to.
this is clearly in the plans for frederick and has been reported.
add $10 million to the extra cap $, that should be enough to net us a great DE or good QB in free agency if needed.

 

[JoeKing]

the point is the extra $ can enable us to replace Romo and acquiring a top DE.

If you take a look at our perennial probowler Tyron's 10 year contract, it is now the 3rd highest average for LT.
Trent Williams and Terron Armstead contracts now exceed Tyron's contract.

Tyron's contract also lasts the longest, with free agency in 2024!
In a couple of years, Tyron's contract becomes a bargain.
that is because of salary escalation from the cap that may be rising $10million per year.

if we can do this with the other OL by signing them early, we may have a ~$10 million stash of extra $ that no other team has access to.
this is clearly in the plans for frederick and has been reported.
add $10 million to the extra cap $, that should be enough to net us a great DE or good QB in free agency if needed.

Too much speculation and unknow factors there to even worry about. Replace Romo and then we can talk.

 

[cowboyblue22]

the cowboys should of had their good years now with a franchise qb playing they have pretty much threw it away. they should of won a couple with tony bad fo decisions bad coaching have led to a bust when they should of been competing year after year Tony will be really hard to replace those kind of qb just don't come along often.

 

[waldoputty]

the cowboys should of had their good years now with a franchise qb playing they have pretty much threw it away. they should of won a couple with tony bad fo decisions bad coaching have led to a bust when they should of been competing year after year Tony will be really hard to replace those kind of qb just don't come along often.

agreed, they could have done better.
stephen jones was probably not running the team then.
jerry is a great salesman (see la'el) but he has no discipline.

i see this as a transition plan.
there would be $ to buy the QB in free agency if available.

with the OL and hopefully Zeke playing to expectations, hopefully a top-5 QB is not even needed.

i can see a dual threat QB working out.
you have the running game forcing the D to play the run.
when you pass, the QB may not need to be be as elusive in the pocket, but can run if first 2-3 reads are not open?
i think a dual-threat type is easier to get than a top pocket passer.
is DAK that dual-threat starter, i give it a 30% chance - which is not bad considering it was a late-4th.

 

[JBS]

The Cowboys won't use big money on FA

They've proven this the last couple of offseasons and
Stephen just confirmed it on the conference call the other day ...

 

[waldoputty]

i

The Cowboys won't use big money on FA

They've proven this the last couple of offseasons and
Stephen just confirmed it on the conference call the other day ...

They went for it with Hardy last season, even with all the warts.
I think his 1 year contract was ~$11 million?
That was reasonable considering they were coming off 14-2 and possibly one official call away from NFC champsionship game.
They would have played the Seahawks who they crushed a few weeks ago.
If they see a superbowl opportunity, I think they will spend the money.

 

[JBS]

Hardy wasn't in the first wave of FA where the real stud signings that go for crazy money are signed

 

[waldoputty]

Hardy wasn't in the first wave of FA where the real stud signings that go for crazy money are signed

Hardy is a stud, but a crazy one.
Olivier Vernon's 'crazy' contract has a 2016 cap hit of $13 million.
Hardy's 2015 1 year contract was over $11 million (before suspension)

 

[wileedog]

This is exactly the type of response I was expecting.

That is the exact response that is warranted.

Who in hell decides that a team that went 4-12 last year is on the cusp of becoming a dynasty?

 

[JBS]

Hardy is a stud, but a crazy one.
Olivier Vernon's 'crazy' contract has a 2016 cap hit of $13 million.
Hardy's 2015 1 year contract was over $11 million (before suspension)

That means nothing...

Vernon got 85M and 52M guaranteed...these two deals aren't even in the same league

 

[waldoputty]

That means nothing...

Vernon got 85M and 52M guaranteed...these two deals aren't even in the same league

for the cap hit, and the 2 contracts are close for 2016.
remember everyone including management was talking about a long term deal for Hardy in the beginning of the year?
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/10...greg-hardy-contract-dallas-cowboys-suspension

they may not go nuts in the 1st 2 days of free agency.
though I would not be shocked if they do when they are ready for a run.

i think their current careful talk is 50% PR because they do not feel they are ready to go for it.
you also have to be frugal when you are building the foundation.
it is always easier to back track your strategy when you are going for it and fans are excited.

 

[CWR]

As much as people hate on this roster and our drafting ability Its fun to see a post like this, and hard to argue that we don't have talent.

 

[CWR]

One or even two championships does not a dynasty make. With Romo's given time left to his career, two championships is the best we can hope for(and that is being generous). The state of the Cowboys, post-Romo is not a team trending toward dynasty status.

Wrong, dead wrong. We absolutely have some excellent foundation players. We are trending in the right direction.

All of it will come down to our ability to get our next franchise QB. If that can be accomplished we will have the roster to be a very good team for a long time.

 

[waldoputty]

Wrong, dead wrong. We absolutely have some excellent foundation players. We are trending in the right direction.

All of it will come down to our ability to get our next franchise QB. If that can be accomplished we will have the roster to be a very good team for a long time.

i am hoping we don't need a top QB, though that would be really nice.
another romo may not be needed.
with the OL and running game, perhaps even an Eli will do... lol

 

[MagicMan]

Besides figuring out the life after Romo situation at QB, I thought you had to at least win one championship before even mentioning the D word.

Regardless, I think the biggest obstacle in Dallas is this coaching staff------I don't see them as a flexible, creative, driven and football intellectual bunch who can adjust to the game, rules, strategies and players themselves. Dictating the game and playing the game are two different things. Look at history------------Dynasties dictate.

 

[waldoputty]

Besides figuring out the life after Romo situation at QB, I thought you had to at least win one championship before even mentioning the D word.

Regardless, I think the biggest obstacle in Dallas is this coaching staff------I don't see them as a flexible, creative, driven and football intellectual bunch who can adjust to the game, rules, strategies and players themselves. Dictating the game and playing the game are two different things. Look at history------------Dynasties dictate.

I agree the FO/coaches really screwed up last year.
I agreed with letting Demarco go because he was not good enough to be $8M back.
However, not drafting one was arrogance thinking anyone can run behind this line.
Anyone can run behind this line, but we need the running game to be as dominant as possible.
Why waste it when you can harvest so much more with some investment in $ or draft picks.
We lost that dominance last year, and we can argue all day whether that cause Romo's injury etc.

Some of us have the "show me first" attitude, and it is very reasonable.
Some of us enjoy the building/architect part, and you do need vision to build a dominant team.
If you do not have a unique vision, you will be a me-too and probably not get far, as there are 32 teams that want the same thing.

Do I think the FO masterminded this design with the dominant OL that keeps providing a salary cap advantage for the long term (due to relative longevity of OLine players - knock on wood).
Absolutely no.
Do I think they realized a good thing when they saw it?
Well, sort of, but they let the running game go south last year.
Do I think they now see the light - I do and sincerely hope so.
Hopefully this will mean a consistent emphasis on the running game.

I was actually hoping someone with salary cap knowledge and spreadsheet would chime in.
How much salary cap advantage can we expect from long term contracts for the OL and existing contracts of key players?

My guess is ~$10 million if we can sign the OL to long term contracts.
Extra $10 million would go a long way for a QB or DE, especially with cap management and the rising cap.
That QB or DE, in my view, could be the final necessary foundation piece for a long long run.

Any one?

 

[Nightman]

Your premise of a 'cheap' OL is flawed.....TSmith signed a team friendly deal but it still 12m per

TFred and Martin will top 8 figures and Collins is only on a three year deal...the rules of franchise tags play against us terribly.....all OL are grouped together so they all use LT money as a guide for tags and 5th year options...TFred has his picked up for 8.8m and Martin's will be higher

We may be able to get away with a team friendly deal with Collins since he missed his signing bonus money...give him 15m guaranteed on a 5 yr deal and you might get for 5/35m next year

We will have a ton of money locked up in our OL and RB and WR1

At this point we need 3-5 more years of Romo and him giving a ton of money back....but if we get a SB in the next couple years- who cares???......that will buy us a 5 year post Romo window.....

 

[JoeKing]

Wrong, dead wrong. We absolutely have some excellent foundation players. We are trending in the right direction.

All of it will come down to our ability to get our next franchise QB. If that can be accomplished we will have the roster to be a very good team for a long time.

12-4 to 4-12 is not trending in the right direction. Getting our next franchise QB is no small task. You must not remember the years following Aikman's retirement.

 

[waldoputty]

Your premise of a 'cheap' OL is flawed.....TSmith signed a team friendly deal but it still 12m per

TFred and Martin will top 8 figures and Collins is only on a three year deal...the rules of franchise tags play against us terribly.....all OL are grouped together so they all use LT money as a guide for tags and 5th year options...TFred has his picked up for 8.8m and Martin's will be higher

We may be able to get away with a team friendly deal with Collins since he missed his signing bonus money...give him 15m guaranteed on a 5 yr deal and you might get for 5/35m next year

We will have a ton of money locked up in our OL and RB and WR1

At this point we need 3-5 more years of Romo and him giving a ton of money back....but if we get a SB in the next couple years- who cares???......that will buy us a 5 year post Romo window.....

I meant cheap for having 4 cornerstone foundation players who keep going to the probowl.
Here is my math.
TSmith - $12M - he is already making $1M per year less than the top 2 LT salaries right now. In a year or 2, he will be a bargain by at least $2M, may be more.
TFred - Top 3 centers currently make $9M. $13M franchise tag in 2016. We shall see what he signs for.
Martin (La'El) - Top guard currently makes $11M and next 3 make $8M.

If we sign TFred, Martin and La'El one-year early, we should get a discount since they would also want the security.
How much discount, I am not sure.
For this to work for a 'dynasty', we want to sign the OL all to similiar contracts as TSmith contract (8-10 years).

Lets assume $11 million each for TFred/Martin/La'el, that adds up to $45 million for the 4 OL. This is pretty conservative because La'el will likely be lower...
Tsmith contract is already $1M bargain, and may be low by $2M in a year, or at least $2.5M by 2018.
For all 4 OL, I am guessing we get a total discount of $10M per year for the OL by 2018 when they could all have very long term contracts.
After 2018, these contracts can be the gifts that keep giving as the cap keep rising!

Many project salary cap to be $166M in 2017 and $200M in 2020.
http://overthecap.com/calculator/dallas-cowboys/
La'el will be on rookie contract at least until end of 2017 season.
Martin will be on rookie contract at least until end of 2017 season.
TFred will likely be signed on long term contract this year.
So the 4 OL cap hit will not hit the $46M number until 2018, where the cap is project at $178M.

RB is ~$6M for next 4 years.
So that adds up to $51M for the 4 key OL and the key RB.

That leaves about $140M for other key positions (QB, WR, DE, CB, LB, S) in 2020.
In 2018 with $178M contract, Jones, Gregory, Jaylon and 2016 draft picks are still on rookie contracts.
If you take out $20M for QB, $20M for RDE, and $12M for #1WR , that still leaves us $88M for remaining WR, remaining DL, CB, LB and S.
I would think that is plenty because I am assuming 8 foundation players are paid for (4 OL, WR, RB, QB, RDE).
If Jaylon works out, that is a low-cost foundation player for 4 years.
Same with Jones and Gregory.

We dont need 22 foundation players.
BTW, my math does not assume ANY cap management where you pay less in early years.
The team has clearly done that and with a rising cap, can do it without mortgaging the future.

 

[muck4doo]

For the love of Christ.

He died for your sins. We try to keep these discussions out of Cowboyszone.com though. There will be NO salvationing going on here!!!!