Eight bold predictions for the NFL offseason

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by zekecowboy, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Hardline

    Hardline Well-Known Member

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    It's not going to happen.
    Payton isn't that stupid.
     
  2. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    And could have won the whole thing too - again - if the refs knew how to make the right calls...

    And coincidentally, Brees wasn't that "HoF quarterback" before being coached by Payton? Funny how that works?

    No draft picks needed. Do more homework.
     
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  3. 817Gill

    817Gill Well-Known Member

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    **This guys arguing Sean Payton isn’t better than Garrett. Good luck for you.
     
  4. Bobhaze

    Bobhaze Well-Known Member

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    Stas, I read the link, but since it was a 2015 article, do we know if Payton’s contract language is the same regarding Benson since he is now dead? Again, I would love to SP here, but I’m still skeptical about the contract being as “black and white” as everyone seems to be indicating here.

    Are we just wishing this is true or is there anything as far as hard news about it?
     
  5. Aerolithe_Lion

    Aerolithe_Lion Well-Known Member

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    Actually, he was on the course he is now in his last years in SD. Payton may have helped him be a better QB overall, but he didn't exactly make him
     
  6. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    His primary residence is in the Dallas area.
     
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  7. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't find anything about it in his most recent deal, but what I would assume is that if managed to get that deal, he wouldn't give it up in a new contract, especially given Benson's health at the time. Wouldn't you?

    I don't think we could expect "hard news" about it until it happened. He's still a coach under contract to another team.
     
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  8. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    No, he was not. In fact, our own Dak Prescott has better numbers over his three years than Brees did over his 5 years in San Diego. There's a gikd reason why the drafted Rivers to replace him.

    Sure he did. At the very least he deserves a lot of credit. Brees wasn't Brees before Payton.
     
  9. Mr_437

    Mr_437 Well-Known Member

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    Put Cowboys in an article, get more clicks.
     
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  10. Aerolithe_Lion

    Aerolithe_Lion Well-Known Member

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    You're cherry picking. I didn't say he started well in SD. But let's look at the stat comparison between his last 2 years in SD and what he's done in NO on a per-pass basis:


    In his last 2 years in SD, Drew completed 65% of his passes. He only beat that once in his first 3 years in NO.

    In SD in 2004 Drew threw a td on 6.8 % of his passes. He's only done better ONCE in his entire career in NO. He throws a lot more, but it's not necessarily been more efficient.

    In SD 2004 he threw an INT on only 1.8% of his passes. It took him 10 years to improve that number.

    Pro football reference uses a stat called average annual value. Basically puts a number on all his achievements that year. In 2004 his value was 17, in 2005 15. He's gone below 15 a few times, but exceeded 17 exactly once.

    His QB rating that 2004 year? 104.8. He was able to beat it exactly once prior to 2015.

    Yards per pass in 2004? 7.9 He's hovered around that his whole career, sometimes going way over in NO, sometimes going under by more than a yard. But between 2010 and 2016 he managed to match that number only once.


    Conclusion: Has he evolved as a passer? Yes, no one is questioning that. But so has every HoF QB over the latter half of their careers, some even with defensive head coaches like Belichick and Noll. Payton has helped Drew, most notably in the accuracy department where he's off the charts.

    But the major difference in these two eras is Marty Ball. Drew threw only 400 times in 2004 in 15 starts. In NO he's AVERAGING 622 attempts a season! That's ridiculous. If you consider a QB throws between 30 and 40 times a game, that's as many as 6 games worth of passes!

    Let's crunch the numbers, what would 2004's stats been if he threw that many times?

    406/622 (65.5%) 4697 yards, 42 TDs, only 11 INTs.

    Was Drew better with Payton? YES.
    "Brees wasn't Brees before Payton? NO. Utter BS. Brees built Brees into who he is while playing for a run-on-all-3-downs defensive HC. To say that didn't happen with his remarkable turnaround in SD is to discredit the HoFer himself. He would be in Canton regardless of his destination.

    If we want to go apples to apples, expect Payton to come in, completely rip up your run game, pay your TE 20 million a season to kill your cap, and then ask Dak to throw it 600 freaking times a year. How would that turn out? That's literally his offensive philosophy, we have data to support this.

    Of course Payton is a superior HC to Garrett. But I don't see how Payton translates into some great fit in Dallas. Many times in his career he's needed Brees to fork out 5000 yards just to get to 7 wins. He doesn't run the ball and needs an extraordinarily accurate, downfield passer to run his offense. He also doesn't have a lot of success in the playoffs, and outside of 2009 he actually wilts a bit when he gets there. 5-6. Also 5 missed playoff seasons in the other 11 years with the most prolific QB in NFL history.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  11. Pape

    Pape Well-Known Member

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    nope, not true... he started his professional coaching career in Philly, as the quarterbacks coach in '97
     
  12. Aerolithe_Lion

    Aerolithe_Lion Well-Known Member

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    Little piece of trivia there, the O coordinator was super bowl winning head coach Jon Gruden. And the O-line coach? The guy he beat in that super bowl, Bill Callahan. Pretty good offensive staff, terrible team.
     
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  13. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    I'm not "cherry picking" anything. I'm giving his numbers before he hooked up with Sean Payton. Numbers that weren't Hall of Fame caliber, heck they weren't even "stay with your original team" caliber. They were, we'll use our draft resources to draft Rivers to replace you caliber.

    "Cherry picking" is the guy trying to use two years out of five, in case you failed to realize it.

    Glad to see you can admit that.

    The "BS" is the guy trying to make up fake numbers, and woulda, coulda, shoulda's. That's BS.

    And in your hypocrisy you want to "blame Schottenheimer" but give little credit to Payton. Awesome double standard you've got going there.

    Oh good, more "BS". Tell us where Payton and his Saints finished in rushing? I'll tell you where, 6th in the league with over 2,00 yards total. Some "ripped up run game".

    Where did your team finish there? Look like 28th and bottom of the league. Worry about your own run game, big talk.

    And what TE did he "pay $20 million"? More BS. Would it be the one he dumped on and fleeced the Seahawks for? And got his starting center on top of it? Another weak sauce attempt. And "we" don't have "data", you've got gripes and grumbles because the guy embarrassed you and your team so you have an axe to grind. That's crystal clear.

    6th in the league in rushing, among the top for two years now. I'll gladly take him, and then we'll be whipping your tails 41-7 too.
     
  14. Bobhaze

    Bobhaze Well-Known Member

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    It’s a fair assumption, but that’s my point....we’re just assuming.
     
  15. Aerolithe_Lion

    Aerolithe_Lion Well-Known Member

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    I never blamed Shottenheimer, and I repeatedly gave credit to Payton. Who are you responding to?

    His rushing was good this year, it's a rarity in his time in NO, even you know you're again cherry picking. What does Philly's rushing rank have to do with it? We don't have Zeke and we're not trying to hire Sean Payton.

    He lost 2 years of playoff chances to Graham's bloated contract, that's not worth fleecing Seattle, which I agree he did.
     
  16. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    The guy who tried to blame Brees early numbers on "Marty Ball". Find that guy and give him the message.

    It refutes another baseless claim.

    Then you cant attempt to criticize a guy who's runs more often and better than your team does. Glass houses.

    Cool story bro. Pointless and more reaching, but cool.
     
  17. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    That's all we can do at this point. I've looked and can't find details on the current situation. But I'll go with what was last known over trying to change the narrative with no proof.
     
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  18. exciter

    exciter Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't it Broadus that was guaranteeing they were trading a 2nd for Thomas without even asking permission to negotiate a new contract with him 1st or was that Eatman. Regardless I've got about a dozen friends and family who are Saints diehards that are convinced he's about to sign a new contract for 12m, eclipsing the contract signed by Carroll. Considering he's only managed one superbowl with Brees as the qb in a relatively weak division, and some of the horrible drafts he's had at the insitance of full control, I'm not sure why everyone is so enamored with him to begin with!
     
  19. Bobhaze

    Bobhaze Well-Known Member

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    The Sean Payton love from Cowboys fans is based on the ongoing desperate hope that someone with real football credibility would one day return to a position of leadership. We already have one arm tied behind our backs every year with the 76 year old billionaire owner who fancies himself as some kind of football genius. The only GM in the league who gained his position as GM when the check to buy the team cleared the bank.

    So in my mind, we Cowboys fans deserve a little empathy for the 23 years we have been held hostage by an egomaniacal billionaire playing out his insecure football fantasies despite the results he keeps getting. We Long-suffering Cowboys fans deserve better than we have been getting for too long.
     
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  20. exciter

    exciter Well-Known Member

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    So what about Payon would be any different from Parcells not getting them over. Is Jerry somehow magically mysteriously not going to be the owner. Dont get me wrong I'm not advocating for Garret. I'm just not as overly impressed with Payton and believe the belief of him leaving NO is unicorns spreading fairy dust. What are you seeing that I'm not because I'm still seeing the guy that had his play calling duties taken away with the giants!
     
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