ESPN: Barber v. Jones

theogt

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32 Questions: Dallas Cowboys


By Nate Ravitz
ESPN.com

Thirty-two teams, 32 burning fantasy questions. Thoughout the preseason, we put one of these questions to an ESPN.com analyst for an in-depth look at the most interesting, perplexing or dumbfounding fantasy facet of each NFL team.

Marion Barber III or Julius Jones: Who da man?

Barber or Jones? Jones or Barber? Double J or Marion the Third? With the possible exception of Tony Romo and Carrie Underwood, no Dallas couple generates as much discussion as the Cowboys' two young running backs. With Bill Parcells basking in retirement (again), the slate should be wiped clean, and both players will be looking to stake their claim as the featured running back in new coordinator Jason Garrett's offense.

In offseason workouts thus far, Jones has worked with the first team ... when he's been around. Although he's attended minicamps, Jones elected to skip organized team activities in favor of working out on his own. That clearly can't endear him to new coach Wade Phillips, and it's particularly odd given that Jones is entering the final year of his rookie contract.

As you surely know, Barber exploded as a fantasy player last season, scoring 16 total touchdowns, including 14 on the ground. He scored in 11 of 16 games despite averaging only 8.5 carries per game. Jones wasn't a total slouch, as he posted his first 1,000-yard season, but he scored only four touchdowns and had just one 100-yard performance in the final 11 games of the regular season.
In fantasy terms, Barber kicked Jones' rear end all over the school yard last season. But who is the better player? Let's turn to the stat sheet to find out.

Last season, Jones averaged 4.1 yards per carry, while Barber's YPC was 4.8. That's a glaring difference, and not just for the obvious reasons. Barber actually had a handicap in this category because he received more carries in short-yardage situations. In fact, if you remove just the touchdowns from three yards out and in, Barber's YPC swells to 5.1, and Jones' ... well, he didn't score any short-yardage touchdowns.

One of the main reasons why Jones trails Barber in yards-per-carry is his propensity for getting stuffed behind the line of scrimmage. According to STATS Inc., Barber was stuffed just six times in 135 carries, and his .044 stuff percentage was the second-best mark in the NFL. In stark contrast, Jones was stuffed 26 times in 267 carries, producing a .097 rate that was among the very worst in the game.

Jones also averaged only 4.0 yards per carry on first-and-10 situations -- again, one of the very worst marks in the league. And for all of the talk about his big-play ability, Jones, in those 267 carries, had just five runs of 20 yards or more, one more than Barber (135 carries), Wali Lundy (124) and Vernand Morency (91).

The line being spun by Jones -- and his supporters -- is that Parcells forced him to "run like a robot," and didn't allow him to use his running instincts. Whether it would be a good or bad thing if Jones started "running with his instincts" is open for debate, but this sure sounds like sour grapes. Remember, it was Parcells who made the decision to pass on Steven Jackson and draft (many would say overdraft) Jones in the second round in 2004.

The bottom line here is that Barber is a better, more complete running back than Jones. On an even playing field, which you'd expect under a new head coach, the cream should rise to the top. Even if it doesn't, Barber should still get the bulk of the goal-line carries. Another 16-touchdown season is unlikely, but double-digit scores is a reasonable expectation, and if he ends up getting the lion's share of the work, he could easily be a top-10 performer in fantasy. As for Jones, it's really difficult to imagine him doing better than 1,200 yards and eight touchdowns even in a best-case scenario.

Hmm ... I can almost sense the ESPN Conversation:

"OK Ravitz, we get it. Barber is the better player, and the one with higher ceiling, and the one with less risk, and the one who helps old ladies across the street. So why, in the name of Tony Dorsett did you draft Jones in the ESPN Fantasy Football magazine mock?"
I'm glad you asked. In our preseason running back rankings, Barber came in at No. 21, and Jones was ranked 33. In our mock draft, Barber went in Round 3, 29th overall and 20th among running backs. I took Jones in Round 7, with the 78th overall pick, after 34 other running backs came off the board. To win a fantasy football league, you have to be lucky and good, and you can't afford to pass up value.

Barber should be very good this season, but you're going to have to pay full price to get him. Based on our league, taking Barber probably means passing up on someone like Carson Palmer, Antonio Gates or Donald Driver. Taking Jones means passing up Braylon Edwards, Chris Cooley or Baltimore's defense.

Without question, Barber is the better player, but it's possible that Jones might be the better value on draft day.

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=32qdal
 
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Stop with the fantasy football crap! Julius Jones is the better running back, he'll prove that in 2007..
 

theogt

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ThreeSportStar80;1539806 said:
Stop with the fantasy football crap! Julius Jones is the better running back, he'll prove that in 2007..
What does any of this have to do with fantasy:

Last season, Jones averaged 4.1 yards per carry, while Barber's YPC was 4.8. That's a glaring difference, and not just for the obvious reasons. Barber actually had a handicap in this category because he received more carries in short-yardage situations. In fact, if you remove just the touchdowns from three yards out and in, Barber's YPC swells to 5.1, and Jones' ... well, he didn't score any short-yardage touchdowns.

One of the main reasons why Jones trails Barber in yards-per-carry is his propensity for getting stuffed behind the line of scrimmage. According to STATS Inc., Barber was stuffed just six times in 135 carries, and his .044 stuff percentage was the second-best mark in the NFL. In stark contrast, Jones was stuffed 26 times in 267 carries, producing a .097 rate that was among the very worst in the game.

Jones also averaged only 4.0 yards per carry on first-and-10 situations -- again, one of the very worst marks in the league. And for all of the talk about his big-play ability, Jones, in those 267 carries, had just five runs of 20 yards or more, one more than Barber (135 carries), Wali Lundy (124) and Vernand Morency (91).
Julius may end up being the better back in '07, but he was nowhere near the better back in '06.
 
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theogt;1539810 said:
What does any of this have to do with fantasy:

Julius may end up being the better back in '07, but he was nowhere near the better back in '06.

OK LET ME MAKE THIS PLAIN AND SIMPLE.... A LOT OF MARION BARBER CARRIES CAME WHEN TEAMS WEREN'T EXPECTING THE RUN, SO THEREFORE YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF B.S. YARDS.
 

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ThreeSportStar80;1539811 said:
Fantasy football has been the death nail to real football talent evaluation...
Ignoring facts has for much longer been the "death nail" to knowledge.
 

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ThreeSportStar80;1539812 said:
OK LET ME MAKE THIS PLAIN AND SIMPLE.... A LOT OF MARION BARBER CARRIES CAME WHEN TEAMS WEREN'T EXPECTING THE RUN, SO THEREFORE YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF B.S. YARDS.
And a lot of Barber's carries came when teams were expecting the run (i.e., short yardage situations).
 
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Julius Jones was the main threat for Dallas if they had any chance of winning. Teams didn't put 8 men in the box to stop Marion Barber that's for sure... Like I've said repeatedly, everyone loves the backup until he's the starter...

:laugh2:
 

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ThreeSportStar80;1539816 said:
Julius Jones was the man threat for Dallas if they had any chance of winning. Teams didn't put 8 men in the box to stop Marion Barber that's for sure... Like I've said repeatedly, everyone loves the backup until he's the starter...

:laugh2:
I'd wager that Barber faced 8 men in the box much more than Julius considering it was Barber that played in short yardage situations.
 
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theogt;1539814 said:
And a lot of Barber's carries came when teams were expecting the run (i.e., short yardage situations).

Julius Jones did all the work in a lot of those scenarios to even get them in scoring position.. Dude you're wasting your time arguing the point. Fantasy football has a lot of none football fans going crazy...
 

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ThreeSportStar80;1539819 said:
Julius Jones did all the work in a lot of those scenarios to even get them in scoring position.. Dude you're wasting your time arguing the point. Fantasy football has a lot of none football players going crazy...
I know. See:

theogt;1539813 said:
Ignoring facts has for much longer been the "death nail" to knowledge.
 

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theogt;1539810 said:
What does any of this have to do with fantasy:

Julius may end up being the better back in '07, but he was nowhere near the better back in '06.

And one year, Troy Hambrick put up a higher ypc than Emmitt did (5.1 ypc in 2001), in a backup role... then he became the starter, and his ypc average went in the toilet (3.5 ypc in 2003)...

The moral to this story is the job of the backup running back can be a wee bit easier than the job of the starter...

Personally, I like having both guys on the team, they complement each other, but those who keep insisting that Marion is a better running back than Julius is are essentially saying that their talent evaluation skills are superior to those of Bill Parcells, a notion that I find laughable...

Julius Jones is the better running back of the two, and I am confident he'll get the starter's carries this coming season, barring injury...
 
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Julius Jones is the best running back on the team... Marion Barber couldn't even hold the starting spot while at Minnesota.
 

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silverbear;1539823 said:
And one year, Troy Hambrick put up a higher ypc than Emmitt did (5.1 ypc in 2001), in a backup role... then he became the starter, and his ypc average went in the toilet (3.5 ypc in 2003)...

The moral to this story is the job of the backup running back can be a wee bit easier than the job of the starter...

Personally, I like having both guys on the team, they complement each other, but those who keep insisting that Marion is a better running back than Julius is are essentially saying that their talent evaluation skills are superior to those of Bill Parcells, a notion that I find laughable...

Julius Jones is the better running back of the two, and I am confident he'll get the starter's carries this coming season, barring injury...
That idiocy behind the Troy Hambrick comparison has been pointed out several times. That some people keep trying to make this point is just sad. Regardless, YPC was only one small part of that quoted portion. The Hambrick line doesn't square the rest of it, does it?
 
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silverbear;1539823 said:
And one year, Troy Hambrick put up a higher ypc than Emmitt did (5.1 ypc in 2001), in a backup role... then he became the starter, and his ypc average went in the toilet (3.5 ypc in 2003)...

The moral to this story is the job of the backup running back can be a wee bit easier than the job of the starter...

Personally, I like having both guys on the team, they complement each other, but those who keep insisting that Marion is a better running back than Julius is are essentially saying that their talent evaluation skills are superior to those of Bill Parcells, a notion that I find laughable...

Julius Jones is the better running back of the two, and I am confident he'll get the starter's carries this coming season, barring injury...

Agreed, he obviously ignored my point of "everyone loves the backup until they become the starter"...
 

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ThreeSportStar80;1539824 said:
Julius Jones is the best running back on the team... Marion Barber couldn't even hold the starting spot while at Minnesota.
In what regard? Falling down on impact? I assure you, he takes the cake there.
 

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ThreeSportStar80;1539826 said:
Agreed, he obviously ignored my point of "everyone loves the backup until they become the starter"...
Yeah, everyone loved Romo until he became the starter. Boy they hated him after that.
 
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theogt;1539828 said:
Yeah, everyone loved Romo until he became the starter. Boy they hated him after that.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch with Romo.. The NFL has been full of one trick ponies.
 
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