ESPN Mosley Blog: I Spy A Cheater (Landry, Lilly quotes on George Allen)

[WoodysGirl]

I Spy A Cheater
September 11, 2007 11:08 PM

Now that we know what the Patriots' film crew has been up to, we should take a look back at the most famous spy in league history, the late Rams and Commanders head coach George Allen.

Allen basically convinced everyone in the league he was spying on them even though no one ever truly nailed him. I've often heard former Cowboys director of personnel Gil Brandt allude to evidence, but he's hesitant to produce any. I know for a fact that the Cowboys used to rent out the second floor of a Dallas hotel because it offered views of the club's old practice facility and they didn't want Rams "spies" to take advantage.

Hall of Famer Bob Lilly once told me that a helicopter flying over practice might cause head coach Tom Landry to send his players home early. Former Cowboys and Patriots scout Bucko Kilroy, who died recently, was at the center of one of Allen's favorite stories.


In 1967, Landry credited some of Allen's antics for helping the Rams rout the Cowboys, 35-13.

"It was early in the season, and we were working out over at a high school in Dallas," Landry told The Dallas Morning News. "We noticed that there was a car there every day. Finally, we got somebody to check it out, and we found out it was a rented car. We traced it down, and it ended up that one of the LA Rams scouts was watching practice.​

"Everybody got excited about it. George just said the only reason he did it was because Bucko Kilroy was watching his practice. Bucko was one of our scouts. He was a big guy, about 260 or 270. [Allen] said he caught Bucko up a tree watching the Rams' practice. We just laughed because Bucko could never get up a tree.​

"It was so important in the newspapers all week, we ended up getting beat. We were thinking about the scouting more than the game."​

Allen was all about gamesmanship, but I doubt he ever had his film crew record the opposing team's signals. It sounds like commissioner Roger Goodell has solid evidence on the Patriots, and unless Bob Kraft and Bill Belichick have a great alibi, they're going to end up forfeiting draft picks.

I think Goodell's probably thinking about one first-day choice and one second-day pick, but that's just a hunch. And there's always the chance that Belichick throws the team videographer under the bus and claims he was acting alone.

For the people advocating that Goodell make the Patriots ineligible for the playoffs, dream on. Much more to come on this issue in the morning.



George Allen, Tom Landry Bob Kraft, Bill Belichick, Bob Lilly, Gil Brandt

Read comments or leave a comment

 

[mmohican29]

I think the Patriots should be forced to forfeit the first game, while letting the outcome of the game stand. The Patriots would get credit for the victory, but would sacrifice a half game to the rest of it's division, and conference..

It would look like this:

Patriots 1-1
Jets 0-1
Dolphins 0-1
Bills 0-1

The Patriots would have the distinction of being caught cheating in the annals by being the only team to have 17 decisions in a 16 game season.

Anyone like it?

 

[Biggems]

FINES:
I say just fine Kraft $250,000, since he is an owner and has already been warned by the league. He is supposed to be held in a much higher standard since he is an owner and thus should pay a heftier fine.

Fine BB $100,000. As the head coach, he calls the shots for the team's preparation. He is responsible. He ordered the code red.

Fine both Coordinators $50,000.

Take away the entire 2008 draft.

SUSPENSIONS:
BB - 4 games
OC - 4 games
DC - 4 games


The Pats have been caught and warned previously, who knows how many times. This time however, there is concrete evidence against them. I think the rule is silly, but a rule is a rule. They are breaking it, and by doing so, cheating. They must be punished and made an example of, so other teams will understand the ramifications of cheating and illegally spying.

Between the huge fines, loss of an entire draft, and suspensions......I feel the league would bring the hammer down on this subject and it would definitely cause other teams to follow the straight and narrow.

 

[jumanji]

yea, the punishment needs to be steep to send a message. i would forfeit the game and take away at least their first rounder.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

good story!

 

[sago1]

Wade Wilson, a lowly QB coach, was fined $100,000 which is probably half his salary and suspended for 5 games and you think fining BB, their head coach, a measely $100,000 is sufficient to get him to stop spying. As for losing a first & 2nd day pick that is probably what will happen but frankly it may stop them for a year or two but they're start up again. They did a great job adding to their team in FA and that is exactly what they again will do.

Frankly if Wilson can get suspended for 5 games then so should BB but doubt Goodell's got the guts to do that to the "great" cheating Patriots. Also Kraft won't like it and Goodell wouldn't want to offend him.

Now losing 2 high picks in 08 draft (I'd give NE's pick to the Jets) & fining/suspending BB is the right way to go. But I'd also fine/suspend either their DC or OC cause one of both had to have been involved. Hopefully in his PC Goodell will use the word "taint" several times which will effectively color their 3 SB wins.

 

[fortdick]

FINES:
I say just fine Kraft $250,000, since he is an owner and has already been warned by the league. He is supposed to be held in a much higher standard since he is an owner and thus should pay a heftier fine.

Fine BB $100,000. As the head coach, he calls the shots for the team's preparation. He is responsible. He ordered the code red.

Fine both Coordinators $50,000.

Take away the entire 2008 draft.

SUSPENSIONS:
BB - 4 games
OC - 4 games
DC - 4 games


The Pats have been caught and warned previously, who knows how many times. This time however, there is concrete evidence against them. I think the rule is silly, but a rule is a rule. They are breaking it, and by doing so, cheating. They must be punished and made an example of, so other teams will understand the ramifications of cheating and illegally spying.

Between the huge fines, loss of an entire draft, and suspensions......I feel the league would bring the hammer down on this subject and it would definitely cause other teams to follow the straight and narrow.

Oh, stop! If this wasn't the Pats, no one would care. If it had been the Eagles caught stealing signs, then people would have called for a dissolution of the franchise!

This stuff has been going on forever. Why single out the Pats? Fine the owner 50k, suspend Bilicheck for one gane and move on.

Vick ws innocent until proven guilty, but we should take away the entire PAts draft?

That is just crazy talk!

 

[joseephuss]

Wade Wilson, a lowly QB coach, was fined $100,000 which is probably half his salary and suspended for 5 games and you think fining BB, their head coach, a measely $100,000 is sufficient to get him to stop spying. As for losing a first & 2nd day pick that is probably what will happen but frankly it may stop them for a year or two but they're start up again. They did a great job adding to their team in FA and that is exactly what they again will do.

Frankly if Wilson can get suspended for 5 games then so should BB but doubt Goodell's got the guts to do that to the "great" cheating Patriots. Also Kraft won't like it and Goodell wouldn't want to offend him.

Now losing 2 high picks in 08 draft (I'd give NE's pick to the Jets) & fining/suspending BB is the right way to go. But I'd also fine/suspend either their DC or OC cause one of both had to have been involved. Hopefully in his PC Goodell will use the word "taint" several times which will effectively color their 3 SB wins.

Why should the Jets be rewarded for the Patriots cheating? I would not give the Jets an extra pick because of what New England did to them.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

They intentionally broke a rule after an off-season warning and the rule deals with unfair competitive advantage. Wade Wilson got a 5 game suspension for ordering a banned substance unrelated to his duties as a coach and was told he was "held to a higher standard because he was a coach".

Tell me why Belichik should get anything less than Wade Wilson received?

 

[adbutcher]

They should throw the book at them.

Most coaches would cheat if they thought they could get away with it but weighing the risk would ultimately be the deciding factor. If the NFL is serious about making the risk of getting caught outweigh the rewards of getting away with it then the punishment must be severe….very severe.

Imo, there are too many Genius Belichick apologist out there for my liking. I almost threw up in my mouth listening to Bob Pappa paint this incident with a coat of sugar.

The bottom line, if you cheat and get caught your legacy is tarnished because no one can differentiate when you weren’t cheating, i.e. Presidents, Baseball players, NBA refs, etc. This is especially true when you are caught cheating against a team that on paper you are grossly superior to.

They should forfeit the game against the Jets, loose the right to participate in day 1 of the draft, and have to pay $1M fine. Now ask yourself if you know this type of consequence awaits you if you cheat, would you?

 

[Zaxor]

Oh, stop! If this wasn't the Pats, no one would care. If it had been the Eagles caught stealing signs, then people would have called for a dissolution of the franchise!

This stuff has been going on forever. Why single out the Pats? Fine the owner 50k, suspend Bilicheck for one gane and move on.

Vick ws innocent until proven guilty, but we should take away the entire PAts draft?

That is just crazy talk!

Dude you need to get a grip.. I would be against my own Dallas Cowboys and suggestion the sanctions I have been...

It bothers the living **** out of me... not because its the pats...

but because it destroys the integrity of the game....

I think that is the part of this you don't seem to be able to grasp

 

[burmafrd]

If you have been SPECIFICALLY WARNED not do do something and then you do it anyway, you deserve the highest possible penalty.

 

[Zaxor]

They should throw the book at them.

Most coaches would cheat if they thought they could get away with it but weighing the risk would ultimately be the deciding factor. If the NFL is serious about making the risk of getting caught outweigh the rewards of getting away with it then the punishment must be severe….very severe.

Imo, there are too many Genius Belichick apologist out there for my liking. I almost threw up in my mouth listening to Bob Pappa paint this incident with a coat of sugar.

The bottom line, if you cheat and get caught your legacy is tarnished because no one can differentiate when you weren’t cheating, i.e. Presidents, Baseball players, NBA refs, etc. This is especially true when you are caught cheating against a team that on paper you are grossly superior to.

They should forfeit the game against the Jets, loose the right to participate in day 1 of the draft, and have to pay $1M fine. Now ask yourself if you know this type of consequence awaits you if you cheat, would you?

except make the punishment a little harder bro other than that brillant

 

[fortdick]

They should throw the book at them.

Most coaches would cheat if they thought they could get away with it but weighing the risk would ultimately be the deciding factor. If the NFL is serious about making the risk of getting caught outweigh the rewards of getting away with it then the punishment must be severe….very severe.

Imo, there are too many Genius Belichick apologist out there for my liking. I almost threw up in my mouth listening to Bob Pappa paint this incident with a coat of sugar.

The bottom line, if you cheat and get caught your legacy is tarnished because no one can differentiate when you weren’t cheating, i.e. Presidents, Baseball players, NBA refs, etc. This is especially true when you are caught cheating against a team that on paper you are grossly superior to.

They should forfeit the game against the Jets, loose the right to participate in day 1 of the draft, and have to pay $1M fine. Now ask yourself if you know this type of consequence awaits you if you cheat, would you?

Is holding on the offensive line cheating? Yes it is. They have an established penalty that fits the crime. Stealing signs is worse than holding, but less than steriods. Because Wade Wilson was treated unfairly doesn't mean Goodell can just go crazy! This isn't gambling, drugs, guns, or any other crimiinal conduct. It is an in game infraction.

The fix is to give defenses a headset. Why didn;t the rule scommittee approve that? Because it inhibits their team's ability to gain a competitive advantage. The NFL should not focus just on the Pats, but every team that voted no on that rule change!

 

[adbutcher]

Dude you need to get a grip.. I would be against my own Dallas Cowboys and suggestion the sanctions I have been...

It bothers the living **** out of me... not because its the pats...

but because it destroys the integrity of the game....

I think that is the part of this you don't seem to be able to grasp

Very true. However, what the NFL has to come to grips with putting BB on a pedestal as a Genius and what to do with their coach Golden boy. Imo, this is far worse then Vick, Pacman, Tank, or whoever because this screws with the fairness that the competition committee tries so hard to maintain. I think Wade said it best, it was put to a vote and they didn’t settle this mess when they had the opportunity. Now the NFL is reaping what they sowed when they had the opportunity to nip this in the bud.

Also, don’t think the fair-minded coaches are not taking note of this, maybe San Diego wins if BB wasn’t cheating. Or maybe Dungy would have one more super bowl under his belt.

 

[Hostile]

Forfeiting the game is a pipe dream folks. It will NEVER happen. Might as well quit squawking about it.

They will probably be fined. Belicheck could get suspended for a game or more, and they could lose Draft picks in 2008. Those are all possible. Forfeit is NOT.

 

[adbutcher]

Is holding on the offensive line cheating? Yes it is. They have an established penalty that fits the crime. Stealing signs is worse than holding, but less than steriods. Because Wade Wilson was treated unfairly doesn't mean Goodell can just go crazy! This isn't gambling, drugs, guns, or any other crimiinal conduct. It is an in game infraction.

The fix is to give defenses a headset. Why didn;t the rule scommittee approve that? Because it inhibits their team's ability to gain a competitive advantage. The NFL should not focus just on the Pats, but every team that voted no on that rule change!

What you are missing is this was a blatant screw you to the commissioner and the competition committee. He was warned as was every other NFL coach yet he still said screw you. For that reason alone the punishment needs to be punitive in nature.

Maybe he is not the genius that everyone thinks he is. Maybe, he is merely above average coach with superior cheating technology at his disposal. You can’t honestly say one way or other because that is what getting caught cheating does. If you cheat, you will lie, if you lie you will steal, etc. You can try to make excuses for him but in my mind this ranks right up there with the coach at Georgia Tech lying about his credentials, and guess what he was fired for it.

Further regarding your holding versus tarnishing the integrity of the NFL comparison Dude you are a trip.

 

[adbutcher]

Forfeiting the game is a pipe dream folks. It will NEVER happen. Might as well quit squawking about it.

They will probably be fined. Belicheck could get suspended for a game or more, and they could lose Draft picks in 2008. Those are all possible. Forfeit is NOT.

I agree. However, it would send the appropriate message that the league won’t tolerate this behavior.

 

[Hostile]

I agree. However, it would send the appropriate message that the league won’t tolerate this behavior.

It sure would. It still won't happen. I've never heard of a Professional sports league in any sport doing it. Maybe they have, but I don't think so.

 

[cleverusername]

The thing I keep thinking about is the 31 other teams (and their fans) that will be in an uproar if the sentence is to light. -not to mention the media.

I mean just look at the harsh examples he's made of Wade Wilson , P-man Jones, Vick and Chris Henry...etc. I think all of these were lesser crimes. The Patriots got caught cheating! red handed. Thats about as bad as it gets in my book. -- If the the Pats don't get some kind of "death penalty", I'm gonna be pissed, and I think a lot of other people will,too.

Maybe even enough to cost Goodell his job.