Excellent quote from Mahomes Dak should read it

[gimmesix]

Before 2027, I'd say 2024 or 25, a new deal will get done by KC or another team.

All of his money for 2024 will be fully guaranteed in 2022. His roster bonus and workout bonus for 2025 will be fully guaranteed in 2023, while his base salary is just $2.5 million and fully guarantees in 2024. What can they offer him to restructure?

 

[SackMaster]

That may be true, but I'm willing to bet Dak on the chiefs means they get blown out vs the Texans.

I won't sit here and act like Dak would automatically win a Super Bowl with the Chiefs, but I think his team being "blown out" is a bit exaggerated.

If Dak was in the game instead of Mahomes, I can see the win or loss being by 7 points or less. Dak may have not won by 20 like Mahomes did after being down 21-0, but based off what we have seen from Dak under a bad head coach, I think he would have at least made the game competitive at the end with a good one.

JMHO

 

[kskboys]

I'm of the belief that if you draft well it doesn't matter how much you pay your quarterback.

You would be incorrect. Because you only get players for 4-5 years. And the gaps must be filled in FA, and every team has gaps. Filling those gaps w/ talented players is how you get to the super bowl. More money available, the better talent you'll be able to acquire in FA.

Look at last year's super bowl winner. KC built it's OL out of FA's, 3 out of 5. Frank Clark, Breeland, Mathieu, Charvarius Ward, Damien Wilson, Anthony Hitchens: All key FA signings. And were key to the super bowl win.

Good drafting is more important than FA, in that I completely agree w/ you. However, I highly doubt you can find even one super bowl winner who didn't acquire key FA's to take them over the top. The money is more limited the more big contracts you have, simple logic.

 

[kskboys]

These are not comparable situations. I remember in the 2016 game vs. the Lions on MNF, it was revealed that Stafford would make more in one-half of that game than Dak would make playing 16 games that season. That Stafford would make more in like 4 games than Dak would make over the course of his entire 4-year contract.

When you were the 77th highest paid player at your position (with expectations to produce like a top 10 QB -- like Stafford), and wait you patiently as almost everyone around you has reset the market at their position...while already being compensated fairly well at their position...

You would not take ONE PENNY less than fair market value. Period. Dot. End. of. Discussion.

I would. And have. You are making the mistake of believing that everyone is eaten up w/ greed.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You would be incorrect. Because you only get players for 4-5 years. And the gaps must be filled in FA, and every team has gaps. Filling those gaps w/ talented players is how you get to the super bowl. More money available, the better talent you'll be able to acquire in FA.

Look at last year's super bowl winner. KC built it's OL out of FA's, 3 out of 5. Frank Clark, Breeland, Mathieu, Charvarius Ward, Damien Wilson, Anthony Hitchens: All key FA signings. And were key to the super bowl win.

Good drafting is more important than FA, in that I completely agree w/ you. However, I highly doubt you can find even one super bowl winner who didn't acquire key FA's to take them over the top. The money is more limited the more big contracts you have, simple logic.

This is not entirely true.

Let me start off saying that what works for the Chiefs doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Every Super Bowl winner gets their differently. So if you are trying to emulate what the last Super Bowl winner did you are going to forever be chasing them. Just like how teams thought they needed to run more two tight end sets to win a Super Bowl or you needed a great defensive line to win......

First off, they traded for Frank Clark, Emmanuel Ogbah and Charvarius Ward.

Also, you are making my point for me. They did not break the bank to sign guys like Charvarius Ward and Damien Wilson. And that's what I'm advocating. Drafting and signing players to fill in the gaps. Are you insinuating that if you pay your quarterback you can't pay to fill in the gaps? Because that's just simply not true.

The issue that comes with giving out big contracts to your quarterback isn't the money you gave them its the money you have allocated to other positions. Let's take the Rams for instance. Goff's contract wasn't the issue. Gurley and Brandon Cooks contracts were more of a issue. When you sign your quarterback to big money you can't afford to pay players who aren't playing up to par to what their contracts say they should be playing.

One thing signing your quarterback does is gives you less leeway to screw up on handing out contracts.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I would. And have. You are making the mistake of believing that everyone is eaten up w/ greed.

Just curious...what was your incentive to take less money? You didn't do this out of the kindness of your heart. There was extra executive to do so correct?

 

[TheHerd]

Still trying to figure out how mahomes at 45 million is team friendly but Dak at 37 isn’t.

If Dak would do 10 years at 37, that WOULD be cap friendly. 37 for isn't. In 5 years, 45 will be middle of the road QB money.

Which is why Dak wants to wait. He's maximizing his money. Can't blame him at all but I do agree with the thinking that 400M is not significantly different than 500M in terms of lifestyle. But if he wants the max money in his pocket, 4 years if the right play

 

[CouchCoach]

All of his money for 2024 will be fully guaranteed in 2022. His roster bonus and workout bonus for 2025 will be fully guaranteed in 2023, while his base salary is just $2.5 million and fully guarantees in 2024. What can they offer him to restructure?

We are assuming everything stays the same and KC is a contender every year. The times change and so does the pay, these deals are in a constant state of examination and possibility of change.

I will be interested now to see how this affects the Jackson and Watson negotiations.

One of the prevalent thoughts here is that Mahomes sets the ceiling and that's based on what? That he's the best QB? Says who? Think Jackson, Heisman winner as a freshman and QB that caused a team to change their offensive philosophy, thinks Mahomes is better? Think Watson, Rodgers or Wilson think he's better than they are? Hell, KC gets more support for Mahomes than they get. Rodgers and Wilson have been their teams and the Texans got rid of the best WR in the game.

Chris Jones should have been the MVP of that SB and without him on that team, they don't even make it there.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

We are assuming everything stays the same and KC is a contender every year. The times change and so does the pay, these deals are in a constant state of examination and possibility of change.

I will be interested now to see how this affects the Jackson and Watson negotiations.

One of the prevalent thoughts here is that Mahomes sets the ceiling and that's based on what? That he's the best QB? Says who? Think Jackson, Heisman winner as a freshman and QB that caused a team to change their offensive philosophy, thinks Mahomes is better? Think Watson, Rodgers or Wilson think he's better than they are? Hell, KC gets more support for Mahomes than they get. Rodgers and Wilson have been their teams and the Texans hot rid of the best WR in the game.

Chris Jones should have been the MVP of that SB and without him on that team, they don't even make it there.

If they are going to run Lamar into the ground I don't see how he doesn't get as much or more than Mahomes.

 

[InTheZone]

You are doing what is often done when someone wants to cherry pick the bad of any player. This is the same type of argument one would make to bash Amari Cooper. Find a few games against true shut down corners and say he isnt so good because he was shutdown by X player... Its purposefully lacking in context. Its ignoring the reality that all WR's or in Daks case QB's struggle against top defenses or CB's. This is what makes them top defenses in the first place. One could post Aaron Rogers stats against top defenses (or any QB) and the conclusion would be the same.

Cherry picking the bad to make a point is no better than cherry picking the good and extrapolating that out over a season and making false positive claims.
Like pretending Tony Pollard would be better than Zeke over a full season just because he had a game or 2 where he broke a few long runs.

I'm not one of those people that thinks cooper magically sucks in whatever game because I know his ability says otherwise.

And I'm definitely not one of those pollard supporters that thinks he's easily capable of replacing Zeke, then goes silent when pollard cant handle a few snaps on special teams without getting hurt.

I don't cherry pick what I criticize of Dak, although any criticism of him or any player can technically be called cherry picking, in that case there's no point in debating because neither side will come to a middle ground.

The excuses thrown his way though are definitely all over the place, no denying that.

 

[kskboys]

We are assuming everything stays the same and KC is a contender every year. The times change and so does the pay, these deals are in a constant state of examination and possibility of change.

I will be interested now to see how this affects the Jackson and Watson negotiations.

One of the prevalent thoughts here is that Mahomes sets the ceiling and that's based on what? That he's the best QB? Says who? Think Jackson, Heisman winner as a freshman and QB that caused a team to change their offensive philosophy, thinks Mahomes is better? Think Watson, Rodgers or Wilson think he's better than they are? Hell, KC gets more support for Mahomes than they get. Rodgers and Wilson have been their teams and the Texans hot rid of the best WR in the game.

Chris Jones should have been the MVP of that SB and without him on that team, they don't even make it there.

True.

 

[kskboys]

I'm not one of those people that thinks cooper magically sucks in whatever game because I know his ability says otherwise.

And I'm definitely not one of those pollard supporters that thinks he's easily capable of replacing Zeke, then goes silent when pollard cant handle a few snaps on special teams without getting hurt.

I don't cherry pick what I criticize of Dak, although any criticism of him or any player can technically be called cherry picking, in that case there's no point in debating because neither side will come to a middle ground.

The excuses thrown his way though are definitely all over the place, no denying that.

Yup.

The excuses and the bashes are all over the place. The extremists on both sides of the argument are rather silly.

 

[InTheZone]

Have you noticed that Cowboys fans have been so beaten up over the last 25 years that we have managed to think we need the #1 player in the league in every position to have a shot?
In the case of QB we have people that believe no one would be good enough if they were not the #1 QB in the league. We gang up on players on forums and point the fingers at them. We fight over whether Zeke is top 3, if Dak is top 10, if Amari is top 10.... we criticize all the best players we have and blame them for the lack of team success. Meanwhile coaching staffs all around the league take teams of average talent and win more than we have.
Nothing matters in this sport more than coaching. Its the single biggest factor in winning or losing. Every player in this league is talented enough to be a part of a winning team. Its the coaches that keep winning that have figured out how to get the most from the players and put them in the positions to succeed.

I agree it starts with coaching. Maximize what you have each year and gauge whether you can improve that position after you had the chance to evaluate. Many though don't like the idea of "moving on" for certain positions. And I'm definitely not one for paying and being strapped when the player is replaceable. Why make a coaches job more difficult?

 

[CouchCoach]

If they are going to run Lamar into the ground I don't see how he doesn't get as much or more than Mahomes.

Goes back to Laveon Bell's unarguable point about the % of the offense he was. Jackson is the most difficult QB in the NFL to defend.

And none of this really speaks to the issue of the worth of a QB. That is established by the team that has him or wants him. That's the ego position in all sports and they nave to watch that as well as the money.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Goes back to Laveon Bell's unarguable point about the % of the offense he was. Jackson is the most difficult QB in the NFL to defend.

And none of this really speaks to the issue of the worth of a QB. That is established by the team that has him or wants him. That's the ego position in all sports and they nave to watch that as well as the money.

Yep. You are worth whatever the team is willing to pay you. People that think Mahomes deal is now the ceiling.......I won't be so quick to say that. Especially after Dak and Watson get paid. I don' think they get as much as Mahomes but I think that next class of guys like Kyler and Watson very well could.

 

[jazzcat22]

Still trying to figure out how mahomes at 45 million is team friendly but Dak at 37 isn’t.

Because it does not fit their narrative.

Remember it is ok for other teams but not ok for Dallas.
Jerry does something he sucks, another team does the same thing they are genius.

That has been basically the theme of many posters on here forever.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

"The biggest thing they preached to me is kind of the same thing I already thought. It was good to just hear them. You want to have great players around you. You don't want to be a guy that takes up all the money and then all of a sudden you're having to sign different guys that will take cheaper deals. We're going to be able to reward players and keep a lot of these guys around that have built the culture even before I was here.''

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...ght-security-flexibility-chiefs-landmark-deal

he got a 10 year $500M contract...he can be a little flexible. I wonder if he would have been as flexible if it was a 3-4 year contract extension.....that's the freaking largest contract handed out to any athlete...>EVER....

vs. 4 years 140M contract.....

not the same thing

and let me ask you, would anyone here willing to take a pay cut so their company can hire better talent, so the company is more successful? be honest!!!

 

[blueblood70]

Mahomes has the right attitude and he can afford to because he knows how good he is and that the team won’t look to move on from him within the next 10 years. He can sign the type of deal he did and be confident he will see most of that money and that by doing that the team can stay talented. He is a true team guy that wants to win every year. On the other hand, Dak and his agent are the exact opposite. They have to strike while the iron is hot because he may never be in this type of position again. He is coming off a big stats year and the team had no other options. He isn’t thinking long term winning. He is only concerned with fleecing the Cowboys out of every penny possible at this time with the hope that he gets the chance to do it again as soon as possible. Dallas gets burned almost every time they give in to players only motivated by money. Dak won’t be any different. Dak and Mahomes have very different motivations and you can see it come though loud and clear on the field. One gives everything he has to win, the other changed his whole game to help ensure he got to his pay day. He has already signaled that his next pay day is more important to him than winning. I don’t trust he will lay it all on the line to win each week because that puts his next contract at risk. I don’t see him being worth the money it will take to sign him so I hope they don’t. I’d be fine with him traded at the deadline and Dalton given a two year extension at the same time. Then start the search for a new franchise QB.

stole my narrative.. agree with al but the trade..you plan better then that , trade dak next offseason..we are far too late in the shortened crazy offseason to put the ball in Daltons hands IMO..

 

[superonyx]

I agree it starts with coaching. Maximize what you have each year and gauge whether you can improve that position after you had the chance to evaluate. Many though don't like the idea of "moving on" for certain positions. And I'm definitely not one for paying and being strapped when the player is replaceable. Why make a coaches job more difficult?

I'm assuming you are referring to committing to Dak for a few years.
Replaceable is easy to type but not so easy to do. We know what we have in Dak. We know he has leadership and respect from his team. We know guys like Amari took less to stay and play with Dak. We know he is capable of throwing for 5k yards in a season while maintaining a Qb rating of 100. There is no point in trying to replace this unless you have something that is guaranteed to exceed this. Risking mediocre QB production for the next several years when you have a young talented team is beyond risky. You are not getting Mahommes. You have a 1000 times greater change of ending up with another Trabiski than lucking into a Mahommes. You would have to mortgage future draft capital just to move to a position in the future to take a chance on another Josh Rosen, Blaine Gabbert, Blake Bortless, Marcus Marriota.... all guys that were the hopes of so many fanbases.

 

[jazzcat22]

Remember what happened after the Cowboys won the SB's in the 90's as as FA kicked in full gear, even with the salary cap.
Many players get greedy and want their slice of the pie after success.
Mahomes gets this huge contract. So it will not be like KC will be handing out huge deals to a lot of other players at critical positions.
Sure for a while they will sign some very good players to decent high contracts. However that will take its toll. Other players, that do not get what they want will still leave.

Give it a few years and we will see, if success continues for them, how Mahomes will be without some of these elite players. Unless they hit on the draft, the talent level will go down.