Discussion in 'Coronavirus Zone' started by cml750, Oct 24, 2020.
So you don't believe masks work?
I’m in El Paso. ( I was a bit of a hermit before all this, so I haven’t been inconvenienced much.)
For me, it’s more rare to see someone without a mask than with. Wearing them properly is I guess like 80%. I Even see pandhandlers wearing masks
If I do shop it’s at 6-7 am so I mostly see older folks who are close to 100% in compliance and wear them proper.
do folks wear their masks when/if they visit family?
a nurse friend wondered if people drop their guard & masks around family
she also suspected gatherings on Sundays/game days could be a factor for part of the current spike
How are you coming to that conclusion? The virus is here and masks don't kill the virus they just prevent infected people from spreading it to others, thus slowing the spread, thus making it manageable for our hospitals, thus improving survival rates, thus buying time for a vaccine/cure. Where in any of that do you draw a conclusion that I believe masks don't work.
The science doesn't support that.
And it's not about the hospitals. You should have figured that out at least 3 months ago.
Lockdowns have been an absolute disaster and made things many times worse for most parts of the world.
Masks don't have that kind of impact, but they're pretty useless and the data does not support their widespread usage.
The "Wall Street Journal" has run numerous article on the expanse of the pandemic in Europe and other countries outlining several reasons for the increase in cases:
“We were so close to having eliminated it from the whole of Australia,” said Adrian Esterman, professor of biostatistics at the University of South Australia. “We were a fingernail from doing it, and this happens.” He said that if new daily cases remained at current levels, it would soon become unsustainable for stretched contact-tracing teams to track infections.
Japan has seen a similar resurgence. The seven-day average for daily new cases in Tokyo more than quadrupled this month to 258 as of Sunday. Across Japan, there were a record 981 cases recorded Thursday. The government has again moved to secure hotel rooms to quarantine the infected after releasing most of the rooms it had previously requisitioned.
Officials said many of the new cases were young people linked to nighttime entertainment districts and that more parties and gatherings in general have contributed to the spread."
"A dramatic reversal in recent weeks has undermined Europe’s hard-won achievement in curbing contagion through economically painful lockdowns this spring. Covid-19 infections were significantly lower than in the U.S. this summer, but have rebounded thanks to factors including shortcomings in testing and contact-tracing systems, fatigue with social-distancing precautions and a particular relaxation of behavior among younger people."
And as far as the US goes NY's curve looks like this as of today:
It's not just about masks.
As the articles point out social distancing is critical... Yet many are not doing it. Testing and tracing are a big part of it also, and as the Europe article points out– Some countries are half-assing it.
I have heard case numbers are meaningless.
There is some research suggesting that mask usage may reduce viral load thus possibly helping in reducing disease severity.
So is that possible? Maybe. I quickly looked at Germany, UK & the state of California and it appears both positive test rates and fatality rates are lower to varying degrees post mask mandate. Does that mean masks are solely responsible? Heck no. Could masks have played a role in it however small? Possible.
There are a lot of variables other than looking at a survey results on compliance then comparing case numbers. How they are wearing them, societal behavior, etc. all factor in.
In the thread he linked to one of his previous threads were I found this and got a chuckle because I had seen this NEJM article used in anti-mask stuff before.
Why a chuckle? In that article he (purposely?) leaves out:
Makes one wonder what other information he may be leaving out of his other tweets.
Because you said wearing a mask has nothing to do w/ how long it's going to hang around. That points towards masks not having any effect.
Sorry, just trying to understand.
Well, it's not as if everybody here who is in favor of mask wearing etc., was not told. The mask thing will never work because eventually, the public is going to revolt against it and then what. Look at what is going on in the EU right now. There radical riots in Germany right now, over this very type of thing. Mask don't work and won't work. As time goes on, it will only get worse.
This was said months and months ago.
The virus will be here, regardless of masks because they don't cause it to disappear from the planet. That doesn't point towards masks not working. The masks work the same way a condom does. If you wear it, your risk of getting or giving an STD declines exponentially. It doesn't remove STD's from the world.
Masks work. Condoms work. Selfish people are the problem.
What is the expectation of wearing a mask? It is supposed to the be the primary tool in fighting covid? Is it supposed to be the only way to protect one from this virus? If so, then yes, masks will never work because that was never the intention. I never saw masks as the be-all-end-all to combating covid, nor did I ever being presented as such. I saw it is a auxiliary tool to be used in conjunction other methods of limiting possible exposure for oneself. Used in that way, masks do work. It isn't perfect and no one is claiming so, but it can help. And if something can help even just a little bit, then it isn't useless. Taking a bunch of vitamin C or D or Zinc isn't going to guarantee anything, but it can help. Just like masks, it ain't all 100% perfect, but every little percentage point above zero helps in fighting this thing.
Define "exponentially" please. Here is the definition of the word.
Learn to pronounce
(with reference to an increase) more and more rapidly.
"our business has been growing exponentially"
by means of or as expressed by a mathematical exponent.
"values distributed exponentially according to a given time constant"
What study or studies have been produced that support that term? I believe that there is no study out there that has measured and level of success in how effective masks are with this virus, or even that it is effective at all. None that I am aware of.
Masks don't work the same way a Condom does. Calling people selfish for their beliefs on this is ridiculous. Nobody can present any validated proof, at all, that masks work. It is you and people like you who are selfish. People have rights and it is not up to you or our government or anybody else to say what people choose to do with those rights are selfish or anything else. You are taking those rights away illegally and without due process I might add. I'd stay away from labeling people as anything at this point. These people are well within their rights to choose their own truths, according to the Constitution of these United States Nate.
Choosing your own truths. That is some funny stuff. Truth is truth, facts are facts regardless of what you choose.
Yes, I'm very selfish in that I am trying to protect those around me from getting sick in case I am asymptomatic and carrying a deadly infectious disease in my spittle. Let's try this since you didn't like the word "exponential." Let's say wearing a surgical mask only prevents me from transmitting it to someone 30% of the time if I'm sick. Is that enough for you to wear it? It is for me. If it's not for you then I feel like you earned the label I gave. Selfish.
Your argument about people having rights and the government not having a say in what you do with them is stupid on it's face. The government gives you the right to drive a car when they issue you a driver's license. Drive drunk and endanger yourself and others, and they take away your right to drive.
For every "study" in support of masks, there are 10 against them. Plenty of real world data that makes it obvious too.
No. There isn't.
No, that's the whole point. You don't choose your own truths. You have laws and you have science so that hopefully, you don't have to "Choose your own truths". That's the wrong way to look at this.
I think it's great that you want to protect people but first, know what the hell you are protecting them from and understand, people have rights and just cause you think your rights might trump theres, they don't.
The government doesn't give you the right to live or travel. If they don't give me a license, I can ride a bike or whatever and still go where I want. That's the whole point, the Government doesn't give me jack and they are lucky we pay their salaries because guess what, everything we have is not theirs to give. Don't you get it, they work for us, not the other way around.
So it's interesting you ask, yes, I'm still confused. Where are the studies in your links. There are no studies over Covid 19 showing any results at all, with regards to prevention of Covid. None. Show the study.
So, if we wear masks it will take longer to spread. (Still honestly trying to understand). Doesn't that mean we'll have it around longer?
What if the best way to fight it is to let it run its course?
The virus itself is not going anywhere. We still have measles even though it has....correction...HAD, been all but eliminated thanks to vaccinations. The virus in all likelihood, will always be around. Forever. Again, the masks and all of the precautions we are taking are meant to slow the spread to alleviate the burden on hospitals so they aren't being forced to decide who to treat and who to street (ie, who lives and dies) until we can develop a vaccine or cure.
Who do you want to sacrifice in your family? Name them.
That's why it's not the best way to fight it.
Who do you want to sacrifice in your family? Name them.
That's why it's not the best way to fight it. The best way to fight it is to actually fight it. Doing nothing is not fighting, it's surrendering.