First 8 games of 2017 vs second 8 games

[QuincyCarterEra]

Stop the madness. There is no MVP talk through 8 games. That's just dumb. MVPs prove themselves in the toughest times of the year. The season doesn't start until then. So in the toughest point of the season he failed miserably. So that "talk" that you speak of was stupid, if there ever was any.

Would you agree that saying there isn't MVP talk after 8 weeks in the NFL is more dumb?

 

[1nfljunky]

Would you agree that saying there isn't MVP talk after 8 weeks in the NFL is more dumb?

Now. I will say that weeks 9-17 shows how really stupid MVP talk for certain players after 8 weeks is. Wouldn’t you?

 

[TruBluSince1982]

So your whole point of contention was me saying Sproles was a star? Well I think the word “star” is subjective. In our system he was the star. He was the player until last year we depended on to extend drives. He was the guy we used to get favorable match ups. He made our offense multi-dimensional. We didn’t depend on him the way you guys did Zeke, but he made our offense better being on the field.

Probably easier just to put it like this. Sproles accounted for 14 TD' s, nearly 1200 yards receiving, plus yardage gained from rushing and kick return duties, over 3 year period. Pretty nice "gadget" guy..

Sure wish we would have taken Cohen, but they couldn't stop talking about Pumphrey, who obviously y'all selected anyway. Would be nice if it works out and Austin can fill that role.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Now. I will say that weeks 9-17 shows how really stupid MVP talk for certain players after 8 weeks is. Wouldn’t you?

I agree, but that's the nature of the beast. Fact is talking heads do prop up players as MVP candidates very early on. We might disagree, but that's what they do for publicity and clicks.

 

[cowboyblue22]

to me all this talk about the injuries for the cowboys and that is the reason their season went south is just that excuses their problem is that that the qb play and coaching was just not very good to me dak looks average at best and I know the coaching is average for the cowboys

 

[CWR]

Uh, there's a Doug Pederson on line one for you...

Biggest difference there was our complete failure at depth and adjustments. Our drop off between Tyron and Chaz was huge.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

My point was that Prescott was the same player in the first 8 games as he was in the last 8..


Dak was missing throws , having accuracy problems , and constantly going 3 and out before any injuries or suspensions. Just go back and watch those first 3 games of the season..


People try to blame injuries and suspensions but Prescott was the same player all season..

Dak ineptness is constant as the Northern Star! Once and awhile Zeke has a break out day and Dak rides his coat tails and throws over 200 yards usually dinks that go for long yardage!
.....Dak is a propaganda Jerry dream sold by all but in reality hes a Grade D QB ....with a Grade D arm....

 

[starcity214]

Totally false narrative. Injuries or not....the Eagles o-line ranked as one of the best pass-protecting units in the league. Wentz enjoyed very good protection.

Wentz was sacked more times than Prescott in less games..

Also , watch his season highlights and you'll see Wentz had to slide in the pocket and make a few escapes in order to make some throws down field..

 

[ConstantReboot]

They lost Sproles. They signed Ajaye because of that.

I wish we would have signed Ajayi. Heck, I wish we drafted him.

 

[cwbyfn88]

What about the Denver game?

What about the first game of the season against the Giants? Prescott was missing wide open receivers in the endzone and had a couple INTs dropped by the defense... We won , but the offense looked bad.

What about the Cardinals game?
Palmer looked better than Prescott and were it not for 2 plays , Prescott had his career average 150 yard game with no touchdowns and constant three and outs..

In those three games , we were healthy.
In those three games, Dak showed the same warts that he did in the last 8 games of the season..

Am I living in some bizarro universe where these things didn't happen?

Mind boggling..

Saw the same thing you saw. Not blaming the year on Prescott. But he was not having an MVP season like someone on this thread claimed.

 

[percyhoward]

Wentz was sacked more times than Prescott in less games..

Also , watch his season highlights and you'll see Wentz had to slide in the pocket and make a few escapes in order to make some throws down field..

Instead of highlights, look at every pass. When kept clean, Wentz was almost 15 points better than Dak. When pressured, the difference was almost exactly the same. That means pressure -- real pressure --was no less of an issue for Wentz than it was for Dak. As can be expected, both players' passer ratings were almost 30 points lower when pressured on a pass attempt.

Passer rating, 2017
Clean pocket vs. (when pressured)
Wentz 110.3 (81.7)
Prescott 95.5 (67.1)

The obvious difference is that Wentz's passer rating starts from a much higher place. Last year in the NFL, a QB was pressured (hurried, hit, or sacked) on about 33% of dropbacks. So games with pressures on 40% or more dropbacks were unusual. Wentz had 4 such games, Prescott had 8 (2nd only to Wilson's 9). Dak was much, much better in the other 8 games, regardless of whether he was pressured on the play.

ATTEMPTS WHEN PRESSURED ONLY (2017)
< 40% pressure games
Prescott 94.6 (8 games)
Wentz 81.3 (9 games)

≥ 40% pressure games
Wentz 82.4 (4 games)
Prescott 51.6 (8 games)

In 2017, Prescott's 94.6 rating under pressure in games when pressured on less that 40% of his dropbacks was 3rd in the league behind Brady (119.3) and Cousins (98.4). Note than in the other games -- the ones in which he was getting pressured more often -- his passer rating when pressured dropped more than 40 points while Wentz's was basically unchanged. Wentz's number is what would be considered normal, because there is normally no major difference in passer rating when pressured from one type of game to another. Although there can be huge variation in sample sizes (some QB had no ≥ 40% games), the league average passer rating when pressured is about the same in the < 40% games as in the ≥ 40% games.

ATTEMPTS FROM CLEAN POCKET ONLY (2017)
< 40% pressure games
Prescott 119.0 (8 games)
Wentz 109.2 (9 games)

≥ 40% pressure games
Wentz 113.5 (4 games)
Prescott 74.0 (8 games)

In 2017, Prescott's 119.0 rating when kept clean in games when pressured on less that 40% of his dropbacks was 2nd in the league behind Alex Smith (119.6). Note than in the other games -- the ones in which he was getting pressured more often -- his passer rating when kept clean dropped more than 40 points while Wentz's was basically unchanged. Sound familiar? Again, Wentz's number is normal, because there is normally no major difference in passer rating when kept clean on the play regardless of how often the QB was pressured on other plays in that game. The league average passer rating when kept clean is about the same in the < 40% games as in the ≥ 40% games.

Pressure-wise, what separated the two quarterbacks in 2017 were two things: the way they reacted in games in which there were a high number of pressures, and the number of those kinds of games they played in. The thing to remember about how pressure affects a QB is that it's almost always the pressure on the play that makes the difference. With Prescott in 2017, it was about the amount of pressures in the game (mental). Quality depth on the OL is essential.

 

[CowboyRoy]

honestly if you look at Dak's stat in a vacuum without his name attached to them most would take it. he does need to improve without questions but alot of the criticisms that he receives are from fans still salty Romo didn't get his job back in the 13-3 year.

Dak's accuracy can be pathetic but I get it after that Atlanta game he was very tennative. Regardless this year will be telling. i think those of us who are hopeful that he improves will be satisfied.Those of you who are expecting him to somehow get the accuracy of Tom Brady well your going to be disappointed.

Me ill take his won loss record as I see the playoffs this year

There is absolutely NOTHING pathetic about his accuracy. Give the kid time and he is as accurate as anyone. Take away the line and the run game of a 2nd year kid and yah, the accuracy goes down like anyone else. At least he is not some gun slinging moron throwing 26 picks a year when things go bad.

And when you throw in the 400 yards rushing, first down pickups, and 6-8 rushing TD's per year the kid is special.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Instead of highlights, look at every pass. When kept clean, Wentz was almost 15 points better than Dak. When pressured, the difference was almost exactly the same. That means pressure -- real pressure --was no less of an issue for Wentz than it was for Dak. As can be expected, both players' passer ratings were almost 30 points lower when pressured on a pass attempt.

Passer rating, 2017
Clean pocket vs. (when pressured)
Wentz 110.3 (81.7)
Prescott 95.5 (67.1)

The obvious difference is that Wentz's passer rating starts from a much higher place. Last year in the NFL, a QB was pressured (hurried, hit, or sacked) on about 33% of dropbacks. So games with pressures on 40% or more dropbacks were unusual. Wentz had 4 such games, Prescott had 8 (2nd only to Wilson's 9). Dak was much, much better in the other 8 games, regardless of whether he was pressured on the play.

ATTEMPTS WHEN PRESSURED ONLY (2017)
< 40% pressure games
Prescott 94.6 (8 games)
Wentz 81.3 (9 games)

≥ 40% pressure games
Wentz 82.4 (4 games)
Prescott 51.6 (8 games)

In 2017, Prescott's 94.6 rating under pressure in games when pressured on less that 40% of his dropbacks was 3rd in the league behind Brady (119.3) and Cousins (98.4). Note than in the other games -- the ones in which he was getting pressured more often -- his passer rating when pressured dropped more than 40 points while Wentz's was basically unchanged. Wentz's number is what would be considered normal, because there is normally no major difference in passer rating when pressured from one type of game to another. Although there can be huge variation in sample sizes (some QB had no ≥ 40% games), the league average passer rating when pressured is about the same in the < 40% games as in the ≥ 40% games.

ATTEMPTS FROM CLEAN POCKET ONLY (2017)
< 40% pressure games
Prescott 119.0 (8 games)
Wentz 109.2 (9 games)

≥ 40% pressure games
Wentz 113.5 (4 games)
Prescott 74.0 (8 games)

In 2017, Prescott's 119.0 rating when kept clean in games when pressured on less that 40% of his dropbacks was 2nd in the league behind Alex Smith (119.6). Note than in the other games -- the ones in which he was getting pressured more often -- his passer rating when kept clean dropped more than 40 points while Wentz's was basically unchanged. Sound familiar? Again, Wentz's number is normal, because there is normally no major difference in passer rating when kept clean on the play regardless of how often the QB was pressured on other plays in that game. The league average passer rating when kept clean is about the same in the < 40% games as in the ≥ 40% games.

Pressure-wise, what separated the two quarterbacks in 2017 were two things: the way they reacted in games in which there were a high number of pressures, and the number of those kinds of games they played in. The thing to remember about how pressure affects a QB is that it's almost always the pressure on the play that makes the difference. With Prescott in 2017, it was about the amount of pressures in the game (mental). Quality depth on the OL is essential.

All these dumb stats are a waste of time. We all watched the games. Dak his first 24 games was great when the line was blocking well and Zeke was there. And that was with horrid coaching and bad receivers. Once Zeke and the line went, so did Dak. Nothing rocket science about it.

So as long as the line and Zeke are back I expect better things. Common sense.

 

[HungryLion]

Instead of highlights, look at every pass. When kept clean, Wentz was almost 15 points better than Dak. When pressured, the difference was almost exactly the same. That means pressure -- real pressure --was no less of an issue for Wentz than it was for Dak. As can be expected, both players' passer ratings were almost 30 points lower when pressured on a pass attempt.

Passer rating, 2017
Clean pocket vs. (when pressured)
Wentz 110.3 (81.7)
Prescott 95.5 (67.1)

The obvious difference is that Wentz's passer rating starts from a much higher place. Last year in the NFL, a QB was pressured (hurried, hit, or sacked) on about 33% of dropbacks. So games with pressures on 40% or more dropbacks were unusual. Wentz had 4 such games, Prescott had 8 (2nd only to Wilson's 9). Dak was much, much better in the other 8 games, regardless of whether he was pressured on the play.

ATTEMPTS WHEN PRESSURED ONLY (2017)
< 40% pressure games
Prescott 94.6 (8 games)
Wentz 81.3 (9 games)

≥ 40% pressure games
Wentz 82.4 (4 games)
Prescott 51.6 (8 games)

In 2017, Prescott's 94.6 rating under pressure in games when pressured on less that 40% of his dropbacks was 3rd in the league behind Brady (119.3) and Cousins (98.4). Note than in the other games -- the ones in which he was getting pressured more often -- his passer rating when pressured dropped more than 40 points while Wentz's was basically unchanged. Wentz's number is what would be considered normal, because there is normally no major difference in passer rating when pressured from one type of game to another. Although there can be huge variation in sample sizes (some QB had no ≥ 40% games), the league average passer rating when pressured is about the same in the < 40% games as in the ≥ 40% games.

ATTEMPTS FROM CLEAN POCKET ONLY (2017)
< 40% pressure games
Prescott 119.0 (8 games)
Wentz 109.2 (9 games)

≥ 40% pressure games
Wentz 113.5 (4 games)
Prescott 74.0 (8 games)

In 2017, Prescott's 119.0 rating when kept clean in games when pressured on less that 40% of his dropbacks was 2nd in the league behind Alex Smith (119.6). Note than in the other games -- the ones in which he was getting pressured more often -- his passer rating when kept clean dropped more than 40 points while Wentz's was basically unchanged. Sound familiar? Again, Wentz's number is normal, because there is normally no major difference in passer rating when kept clean on the play regardless of how often the QB was pressured on other plays in that game. The league average passer rating when kept clean is about the same in the < 40% games as in the ≥ 40% games.

Pressure-wise, what separated the two quarterbacks in 2017 were two things: the way they reacted in games in which there were a high number of pressures, and the number of those kinds of games they played in. The thing to remember about how pressure affects a QB is that it's almost always the pressure on the play that makes the difference. With Prescott in 2017, it was about the amount of pressures in the game (mental). Quality depth on the OL is essential.

This just about sums it up. Excellent analysis.

In order for Dak to be a longtime quality starter, his play needs to improve in games with a lot of pressure. It’s expected for any QB’s play to drop when pressured a lot, but Dak’s play fell TOO far down when under pressure all game.

That’s what he needs to work on the most. I do think his footwork in the pocket and pocket presence is what needs the most improvement. He needs to learn to navigate in the pocket better, step up better when having pressure from the edges, he tries to escape out the back of the pocket too often when under a lot of duress. As a result he misses opportunities to throw it downfield in those situations.

 

[GMO415]

Someone trying to bamboozle us by paying for an article?

 

[percyhoward]

All these dumb stats are a waste of time. We all watched the games. Dak his first 24 games was great when the line was blocking well and Zeke was there. And that was with horrid coaching and bad receivers. Once Zeke and the line went, so did Dak. Nothing rocket science about it.

So as long as the line and Zeke are back I expect better things. Common sense.

Surface-scratching may be a common practice, but that's not necessarily the same as common sense.

Looking at 2016, we can see that Dak also struggled in games in when pressured an inordinate amount of times (even when kept clean), and that he was very, very good in the other (< 40%) games. That's with the same coaching, and the same receivers for the most part. This suggests that when he's pressured often in a game, he begins to worry about that pressure and his performance suffers to a degree that almost all other QB' performance does not. This is also common sense, even if it's a little too in-depth or specific for your tastes.

Prescott from CLEAN POCKET only
in games when pressured on < 40% of dropbacks
2016 222 of 288 (77.1%) 2636 yd (9.2 ypa) 17 td 1 int 122.6
2017 106 of 152 (69.7%) 1206 yd (7.9 ypa) 13 td 1 int 119.0
career 328 of 440 (74.5%) 3842 yd (8.7 ypa) 30 td 2 int 121.4

in games when pressured on ≥ 40% of dropbacks
2016 29 of 53 (54.7%) 422 yd (8.0 ypa) 4 td 3 int 82.4
2017 116 of 166 (69.9%) 925 yd (5.6 ypa) 4 td 7 int 74.0
career 145 of 219 (66.2%) 1347 yd (6.2 ypa) 8 td 10 int 76.0

In a very general sense, Zeke's presence and OL health make this a better team. More specifically, looking at 2017, we can see that Zeke's absence had nowhere near the effect of the absence of either Smith or Martin.

SCORING
with both Smith and Martin
Games 1-8
212 points on 85 drives (2.49 points per drive)
26.1 points per game
Games 9-16
81 points on 32 drives (2.53 points per drive)
26.6 points per game

without Smith or without Martin
Games 1-8
--
Games 9-16
40 points on 49 drives (0.82 points per drive)
8.6 points per game

It may be more than you wanted to know, but again there's a common-sense conclusion here.

 

[skinsscalper]

Surface-scratching may be a common practice, but that's not necessarily the same as common sense.

Looking at 2016, we can see that Dak also struggled in games in when pressured an inordinate amount of times (even when kept clean), and that he was very, very good in the other (< 40%) games. That's with the same coaching, and the same receivers for the most part. This suggests that when he's pressured often in a game, he begins to worry about that pressure and his performance suffers to a degree that almost all other QB' performance does not. This is also common sense, even if it's a little too in-depth or specific for your tastes.

Prescott from CLEAN POCKET only
in games when pressured on < 40% of dropbacks
2016 222 of 288 (77.1%) 2636 yd (9.2 ypa) 17 td 1 int 122.6
2017 106 of 152 (69.7%) 1206 yd (7.9 ypa) 13 td 1 int 119.0
career 328 of 440 (74.5%) 3842 yd (8.7 ypa) 30 td 2 int 121.4

in games when pressured on ≥ 40% of dropbacks
2016 29 of 53 (54.7%) 422 yd (8.0 ypa) 4 td 3 int 82.4
2017 116 of 166 (69.9%) 925 yd (5.6 ypa) 4 td 7 int 74.0
career 145 of 219 (66.2%) 1347 yd (6.2 ypa) 8 td 10 int 76.0

In a very general sense, Zeke's presence and OL health make this a better team. More specifically, looking at 2017, we can see that Zeke's absence had nowhere near the effect of the absence of either Smith or Martin.

SCORING
with both Smith and Martin
Games 1-8
212 points on 85 drives (2.49 points per drive)
26.1 points per game
Games 9-16
81 points on 32 drives (2.53 points per drive)
26.6 points per game

without Smith or without Martin
Games 1-8
--
Games 9-16
40 points on 49 drives (0.82 points per drive)
8.6 points per game

It may be more than you wanted to know, but again there's a common-sense conclusion here.

I just have to say that I love your Shakey's Pizza sig pic. I have some awesome memories of that place as a kid. Used to love watching them make our pizza while the self playing piano churned out the tunes.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Surface-scratching may be a common practice, but that's not necessarily the same as common sense.

Looking at 2016, we can see that Dak also struggled in games in when pressured an inordinate amount of times (even when kept clean), and that he was very, very good in the other (< 40%) games. That's with the same coaching, and the same receivers for the most part. This suggests that when he's pressured often in a game, he begins to worry about that pressure and his performance suffers to a degree that almost all other QB' performance does not. This is also common sense, even if it's a little too in-depth or specific for your tastes.

Prescott from CLEAN POCKET only
in games when pressured on < 40% of dropbacks
2016 222 of 288 (77.1%) 2636 yd (9.2 ypa) 17 td 1 int 122.6
2017 106 of 152 (69.7%) 1206 yd (7.9 ypa) 13 td 1 int 119.0
career 328 of 440 (74.5%) 3842 yd (8.7 ypa) 30 td 2 int 121.4

in games when pressured on ≥ 40% of dropbacks
2016 29 of 53 (54.7%) 422 yd (8.0 ypa) 4 td 3 int 82.4
2017 116 of 166 (69.9%) 925 yd (5.6 ypa) 4 td 7 int 74.0
career 145 of 219 (66.2%) 1347 yd (6.2 ypa) 8 td 10 int 76.0

In a very general sense, Zeke's presence and OL health make this a better team. More specifically, looking at 2017, we can see that Zeke's absence had nowhere near the effect of the absence of either Smith or Martin.

SCORING
with both Smith and Martin
Games 1-8
212 points on 85 drives (2.49 points per drive)
26.1 points per game
Games 9-16
81 points on 32 drives (2.53 points per drive)
26.6 points per game

without Smith or without Martin
Games 1-8
--
Games 9-16
40 points on 49 drives (0.82 points per drive)
8.6 points per game

It may be more than you wanted to know, but again there's a common-sense conclusion here.

The common sense conclusion is that Dak is a very young QB that will struggle like most under pressure until he gets experience and learns the defenses. At least the kid is spot on when given the time.

 

[northerncowboynation]

Bob Sturm on Dak and the offense last year

“This is all important to keep in mind as we judge the 2017 offense. There was a clear line of demarcation where the Cowboys offense fell off a cliff. But it’s important to remember the eight games played before that line – and during those first eight games, the Dallas offense was still the unit everyone loved in 2016. I have said this over and over in pieces this offseason, and I don’t sense the fanbase believes it. But by all measurable statistics and even the eye test of a careful review, it is true. The Cowboys’ offense through the Kansas City game was the same power from the year before.

Then, it all changed the week of the Atlanta game.

We know why it changed. Ezekiel Elliott began his suspension and perhaps, more importantly, Tyron Smith suffered his injury at the end of the Kansas City game. At first, there was hope it was just a small issue and that he might not miss a game. But Smith missed several and never looked the same. Elliott and his left tackle would play only three snaps together the rest of the season. Not three games. Three snaps.

Last week, I offered the actual statistics about sacks allowed. But to show you how catastrophic the Atlanta game was, consider this hypothetical statistic. Five times in 2016-2017, the offensive line never conceded a sack. What would the 2017 season have looked like if the Falcons game turned out that way?”


I have been saying this from day one and a lot of real nfl guys have agreed.

Why does a good chunk of the fanbase wanna spin this into hate for the Dak? This thing seems pretty simple to me. Weapons and protections there, Dak plays well. Weapons and protection gone, Dak struggles. Sounds like any other QB not named Rodgers/Brees/Brady.

Did we forget Derek Carr’s 2016-2017 drop off? It happened for almost the same reasons as Dak; decline in running game, decline in receiver play, decline in O-line play, bad coaching, and spotty defense. When all these things declined from 2016-2017 for Oakland, so did Derek Carr’s play. I bet 0 Raiders fans are calling for his head though.


Here’s the full piece by the way

https://***BLOCKED***/395718/2018/0...ister-volume-2-feat-adrian-clayborns-big-day/

My dad used to say "make hay when the sun shines". The first half of this season looks like the half to make hay and the second the half to take it to the barn . Playoff time is what? The hay is made and in the barn. Feed the bovines I suppose. C'mom dogs, eat!!

In addition, every year is different for making hay. Why look backwards, the weather constantly changes, metaphorically speaking

 

[percyhoward]

I just have to say that I love your Shakey's Pizza sig pic. I have some awesome memories of that place as a kid. Used to love watching them make our pizza while the self playing piano churned out the tunes.

Yeah, it's a nostalgia thing. Evidently the only ones left are in California.