First 8 games of 2017 vs second 8 games

[skinsscalper]

Yeah, it's a nostalgia thing. Evidently the only ones left are in California.

That's heartbreaking. "My Shakeys" was on CY Avenue in Casper Wyoming. It shut down probably over 25 years ago but still holds a special place in my heart. Another one I miss is Godfather's Pizza. Used to love that place, too.

 

[percyhoward]

The common sense conclusion is that Dak is a very young QB that will struggle like most under pressure until he gets experience and learns the defenses. At least the kid is spot on when given the time.

That's not accurate. He's great under pressure -- especially vs. the blitz -- in games when he isn't pressured a lot on his other throws. By "not a lot" I mean games with pressures on less than 40% of all dropbacks. That describes about 70% of all games league-wide, so it's a good thing assuming we can stay at about that league average of 70%. In fact, it's a big reason the team got the #1 seed in 2016, and was the #1 scoring offense through 8 games of 2017. And that kind of performance when pressured in games with a low-to-normal amount of pressures is not something that is common to young (25 or under) quarterbacks. The passer ratings below are from 2016-17 combined.

WHEN PRESSURED
in < 40% pressure games
Prescott 90.6
Winston 72.7
Goff 69.6
Bortles 59.4
Wentz 50.4
Brissett 48.8
Kizer 40.0

Dak has most definitely not been "spot on when given the time" in games when he's pressured often on his other throws. His errant throws from a clean pocket in games when he was pressured a lot were a big reason the team missed the playoffs in 2017 -- and there were more of these type games than the year before, mostly due to OL issues as you mentioned. Such poor passing from a clean pocket in games with a lot of pressures is not something that is common to young quarterbacks. Again, these numbers are from 2016-17.

CLEAN POCKET ONLY
in ≥ 40% pressure games
(min 80 att)
Wentz 105.4
Winston 103.9
Brissett 92.2
Bortels 85.7
Goff 85.6
Prescott 74.5
Kizer 67.4

Dak needs to get to a point where the perception or anticipation of pressure is no longer an obstacle.

 

[jterrell]

various thoughts.
1. The Athletic is worth the price of admission. They have a lot of great stuff.
2. Sturm is alive and well after starting off his post Dallas Stars hangover with nonsense this was quality.
3. Yes last year was a tale of two halves.
3a. Offense up and defense down in 1st half as young kids learned to play. Lewis, Chido, Woods, Jaylon.
3b. Of course offense sucked when the best two football players on your team played a combined 3 snaps together the final 8 weeks.

 

[jterrell]

That's not accurate. He's great under pressure -- especially vs. the blitz -- in games when he isn't pressured a lot on his other throws. By "not a lot" I mean games with pressures on less than 40% of all dropbacks. That describes about 70% of all games league-wide, so it's a good thing assuming we can stay at about that league average of 70%. In fact, it's a big reason the team got the #1 seed in 2016, and was the #1 scoring offense through 8 games of 2017. And that kind of performance when pressured in games with a low-to-normal amount of pressures is not something that is common to young (25 or under) quarterbacks. The passer ratings below are from 2016-17 combined.

WHEN PRESSURED
in < 40% pressure games
Prescott 90.6
Winston 72.7
Goff 69.6
Bortles 59.4
Wentz 50.4
Brissett 48.8
Kizer 40.0

Dak has most definitely not been "spot on when given the time" in games when he's pressured often on his other throws. His errant throws from a clean pocket in games when he was pressured a lot were a big reason the team missed the playoffs in 2017 -- and there were more of these type games than the year before, mostly due to OL issues as you mentioned. Such poor passing from a clean pocket in games with a lot of pressures is not something that is common to young quarterbacks. Again, these numbers are from 2016-17.

CLEAN POCKET ONLY
in ≥ 40% pressure games
(min 80 att)
Wentz 105.4
Winston 103.9
Brissett 92.2
Bortels 85.7
Goff 85.6
Prescott 74.5
Kizer 67.4

Dak needs to get to a point where the perception or anticipation of pressure is no longer an obstacle.

none of this is news to me. ultimately absent Tyron he was scared witless and probably with good reason.
as your other stats show that is his security blanket. with tyron he is a stud, without he is a tin man.

 

[CowboyRoy]

That's not accurate. He's great under pressure -- especially vs. the blitz -- in games when he isn't pressured a lot on his other throws. By "not a lot" I mean games with pressures on less than 40% of all dropbacks. That describes about 70% of all games league-wide, so it's a good thing assuming we can stay at about that league average of 70%. In fact, it's a big reason the team got the #1 seed in 2016, and was the #1 scoring offense through 8 games of 2017. And that kind of performance when pressured in games with a low-to-normal amount of pressures is not something that is common to young (25 or under) quarterbacks. The passer ratings below are from 2016-17 combined.

WHEN PRESSURED
in < 40% pressure games
Prescott 90.6
Winston 72.7
Goff 69.6
Bortles 59.4
Wentz 50.4
Brissett 48.8
Kizer 40.0

Dak has most definitely not been "spot on when given the time" in games when he's pressured often on his other throws. His errant throws from a clean pocket in games when he was pressured a lot were a big reason the team missed the playoffs in 2017 -- and there were more of these type games than the year before, mostly due to OL issues as you mentioned. Such poor passing from a clean pocket in games with a lot of pressures is not something that is common to young quarterbacks. Again, these numbers are from 2016-17.

CLEAN POCKET ONLY
in ≥ 40% pressure games
(min 80 att)
Wentz 105.4
Winston 103.9
Brissett 92.2
Bortels 85.7
Goff 85.6
Prescott 74.5
Kizer 67.4

Dak needs to get to a point where the perception or anticipation of pressure is no longer an obstacle.

I have honestly NEVER seen a young QB play as well as Prescott has, even given the circumstances. There is nothing you could say about him that would surprise me.

 

[AdamJT13]

in < 40% pressure games

...

in ≥ 40% pressure games

Which games are which?

 

[starfan1]

There is absolutely NOTHING pathetic about his accuracy. Give the kid time and he is as accurate as anyone. Take away the line and the run game of a 2nd year kid and yah, the accuracy goes down like anyone else. At least he is not some gun slinging moron throwing 26 picks a year when things go bad.

And when you throw in the 400 yards rushing, first down pickups, and 6-8 rushing TD's per year the kid is special.

You don’t have to convince me I’m a Dak fan but even those of us who have been waiting for romos replacement for sometime cannot dismiss the fact that there are question marks with this kid on accuracy.

I remember 1 throw in particular to Witten that came with little to no pressure on a sideline route I just shook my head.

It is just 1 throw but there are other examples. Contributing factors aside his accuracy has to get better because this isn’t Mississippi state everyone is fast here and everyone recovers quick

But make no mistake I’m a huge Dak fan the #4 jersey sits in mr dresser

 

[blueblood70]

Bob Sturm on Dak and the offense last year

“This is all important to keep in mind as we judge the 2017 offense. There was a clear line of demarcation where the Cowboys offense fell off a cliff. But it’s important to remember the eight games played before that line – and during those first eight games, the Dallas offense was still the unit everyone loved in 2016. I have said this over and over in pieces this offseason, and I don’t sense the fanbase believes it. But by all measurable statistics and even the eye test of a careful review, it is true. The Cowboys’ offense through the Kansas City game was the same power from the year before.

Then, it all changed the week of the Atlanta game.

We know why it changed. Ezekiel Elliott began his suspension and perhaps, more importantly, Tyron Smith suffered his injury at the end of the Kansas City game. At first, there was hope it was just a small issue and that he might not miss a game. But Smith missed several and never looked the same. Elliott and his left tackle would play only three snaps together the rest of the season. Not three games. Three snaps.

Last week, I offered the actual statistics about sacks allowed. But to show you how catastrophic the Atlanta game was, consider this hypothetical statistic. Five times in 2016-2017, the offensive line never conceded a sack. What would the 2017 season have looked like if the Falcons game turned out that way?”


I have been saying this from day one and a lot of real nfl guys have agreed.

Why does a good chunk of the fanbase wanna spin this into hate for the Dak? This thing seems pretty simple to me. Weapons and protections there, Dak plays well. Weapons and protection gone, Dak struggles. Sounds like any other QB not named Rodgers/Brees/Brady.

Did we forget Derek Carr’s 2016-2017 drop off? It happened for almost the same reasons as Dak; decline in running game, decline in receiver play, decline in O-line play, bad coaching, and spotty defense. When all these things declined from 2016-2017 for Oakland, so did Derek Carr’s play. I bet 0 Raiders fans are calling for his head though.


Here’s the full piece by the way

https://***BLOCKED***/395718/2018/0...ister-volume-2-feat-adrian-clayborns-big-day/

I agree but all these no excuses post are insane and stop comparing the Sheagles to us, they struck lightening but all this happened and it happened so quick during the start of 3 games in 12 days with a late night sunday game right before a b2b Thursdays games that they had no way of adjusting or making changes.. it hit hard and when the smoke cleared it was tough to get it going again.. Dak did fall off but there are more reasons than him simply regressing..most any team in the nfl having our issues would have had similar results..

 

[CowboyRoy]

You don’t have to convince me I’m a Dak fan but even those of us who have been waiting for romos replacement for sometime cannot dismiss the fact that there are question marks with this kid on accuracy.

I remember 1 throw in particular to Witten that came with little to no pressure on a sideline route I just shook my head.

It is just 1 throw but there are other examples. Contributing factors aside his accuracy has to get better because this isn’t Mississippi state everyone is fast here and everyone recovers quick

But make no mistake I’m a huge Dak fan the #4 jersey sits in mr dresser

I dont see accuracy issues any more than a young QB developing. All QB's miss throws. The more the pressure, the less accurate a QB is. Par for the course.

And he is particularly accurate on the run. However, I dont see him as a 5000 yard passing numbers type guy. He is a dual threat QB. Never going to be an incredible passer. He is exactly what we need in a run first offense like this.

 

[sbark]

Uh, there's a Doug Pederson on line one for you...

...no doubt, the inflexibility of the scheme installed ....in contrast to d.petersons job he did on a ring run

Eye opening

 

[starfan1]

I dont see accuracy issues any more than a young QB developing. All QB's miss throws. The more the pressure, the less accurate a QB is. Par for the course.

And he is particularly accurate on the run. However, I dont see him as a 5000 yard passing numbers type guy. He is a dual threat QB. Never going to be an incredible passer. He is exactly what we need in a run first offense like this.

Fair enough I call them like I see them. I was critical when romo missed critical throws as I have been with all Dallas qb’s

I like Dak and am firmly entrenched in his fanclub but a throw here or there can be the difference between a win and a loss

And a win or a loss can be the difference between watching or playing in January asscan piss poor coaching or poor defense all things that have reared there ugly heads at times with this group

 

[percyhoward]

Which games are which?

2016
29 NYG
37 at WAS
37 CHI
39 at SF
26 CIN
21 at GB
52 PHI
24 at CLE
35 at PIT
31 BAL
39 WAS
52 at MIN
48 at NYG
29 TB
28 DET
31 GB

2017
23 NYG
40 at DEN
37 at ARI
44 LAR
23 GB
27 at SF
40 at WAS
31 KC
45 at ATL
46 PHI
41 LAC
33 WAS
21 at NYG
42 at OAK
49 SEA

 

[LocimusPrime]

You can still cheer for a player and acknowledge that he/she has flaws and room for improvement.

 

[Cowpolk]

You can still cheer for a player and acknowledge that he/she has flaws and room for improvement.

Are you suggesting that Dak may pull a Jenner?

 

[PAPPYDOG]

There is absolutely NOTHING pathetic about his accuracy. Give the kid time and he is as accurate as anyone. Take away the line and the run game of a 2nd year kid and yah, the accuracy goes down like anyone else. At least he is not some gun slinging moron throwing 26 picks a year when things go bad.

And when you throw in the 400 yards rushing, first down pickups, and 6-8 rushing TD's per year the kid is special.

LOL....This kid is a walking time bomb back there! Hey if the video of last seasons debacle doesn't convince you here's what the scouts had to say about Dak....and by the way the only thing special about Dak is how he needs 10 seconds back there to maybe throw a pass over 10 yards....once the DB has fallen down and the the WR is open by a mile.....




Saban: Dak Prescott "reminds you of Tebow in a lot of ways

— Cecil Hurt (@CecilHurt) November 10, 2014

NFL GM compares Dak Prescott to Tim Tebow


He's just like Tim Tebow, but he can actually throw. Interesting prospect," the GM said, according to NFL Media insider Ian Rapoport.

Tebow, of course, had only a three-year NFL career because he struggled with accuracy at the pro level.

What good is a QB in the NFL if he has Tim Tebow type accuracy? Should our Dallas Cowboys offense be limited cause Dak doesn't have the goods at QB?

 

[LocimusPrime]

Are you suggesting that Dak may pull a Jenner?

Bro.

 

[jobberone]

The consistency is the ultimate key. If Dak can improve his mechanics and be consistent with them, he will be fine.

If he doesn’t get his footwork consistent, then it is going to limit him.

It's more than footwork. It's between the ears first but mechanics are inconsistent.

 

[percyhoward]

It's more than footwork. It's between the ears first but mechanics are inconsistent.

You're the doctor, but it sure seems like PTSD to me, and probably goes back at least to his Miss St. days. When pressured a lot in a game, he can't concentrate like he's able to in a more typical game with a low-to-normal amount of pressures. He's so spooked he can't focus even when he's getting good protection on the play.

Remember the first passer rating represents about 70% of all games and the rating in parentheses is only about 30%. This is 2017 only, which Dak graded himself as a "C" year.

CLEAN POCKET ONLY
< 40% pressure games vs. (≥ 40% pressure games)
Smith 119.6 (94.5)
Prescott 119.0 (74.0)
Goff 114.9 (90.2)
Keenum 114.2 (102.3)
Brees 114.1 (--)
Wilson 109.4 (107.8)
Wentz 109.2 (113.5)
Stafford 107.3 (106.1)
Cousins 106.3 (113.4)
Rthlsbrgr 103.4 (104.6)
Brady 102.7 (117.7)
Ryan 100.3 (117.5)
Rivers 99.7 (106.1)
Carr 99.5 (117.5)
Winston 95.4 (120.4)

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

Stop the madness. There is no MVP talk through 8 games. That's just dumb. MVPs prove themselves in the toughest times of the year. The season doesn't start until then. So in the toughest point of the season he failed miserably. So that "talk" that you speak of was stupid, if there ever was any.

And Wentz failed worse his rookie year than Dak's 2017 season.

 

[jobberone]

You're the doctor, but it sure seems like PTSD to me, and probably goes back at least to his Miss St. days. When pressured a lot in a game, he can't concentrate like he's able to in a more typical game with a low-to-normal amount of pressures. He's so spooked he can't focus even when he's getting good protection on the play.

Remember the first passer rating represents about 70% of all games and the rating in parentheses is only about 30%. This is 2017 only, which Dak graded himself as a "C" year.

CLEAN POCKET ONLY
< 40% pressure games vs. (≥ 40% pressure games)
Smith 119.6 (94.5)
Prescott 119.0 (74.0)
Goff 114.9 (90.2)
Keenum 114.2 (102.3)
Brees 114.1 (--)
Wilson 109.4 (107.8)
Wentz 109.2 (113.5)
Stafford 107.3 (106.1)
Cousins 106.3 (113.4)
Rthlsbrgr 103.4 (104.6)
Brady 102.7 (117.7)
Ryan 100.3 (117.5)
Rivers 99.7 (106.1)
Carr 99.5 (117.5)
Winston 95.4 (120.4)

I don't doubt the validity of your post at all. I never even check your results. I'm talking about presnap reads and progressions. What saves him is his ability to make plays on the fly. That's his confidence and athleticism. I expect his mental aspects of the game to improve this year.